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Bushfires in Victoria kill 76, death toll will rise [update: 181 dead]

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posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by Agit8dChop

get my point?

Or do you just want a reason to have a go at me?

I feel bad for all the people who have lost and are suffering, and i wish everything and anything for you.

But the media, has to stop acting like this, and start acting accordingly.




No I'm not looking for an excuses to have a go at you, I miss understood your other post.

to an extent they are exaggerating this but they have to. the more people they interview, the more people will connect and will donate and watch their channel in the future.




posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by Agit8dChop
 

Agit8dChop, I disagree with you on one point only. It's not that just 180+ people have lost their lives. It's also that their towns have been destroyed as well. It's the loss of infrastructure that goes along with the devastation which is the tough part for recovery.

As to your main point, the media - I completely agree with you. It is a circus and it's sickening. Aussie media is so bloated with 'mateship' phrases that I can't bear to watch it. The stupid questions are crazy.

I scan (not read) the Herald Sun newspaper each day and it's been page after page after page after page of fire pictures and story telling...

You've got it right, so I'm prepared to stand with you on the soapbox. THE AUSSIE MEDIA IS PATHETIC. The dead people were not all heros, some died foolishly and needlessly due to their own poor decisions. Sad, but true. Aussie media, please report the facts only and let us decide on who we think the heros are - and no doubt there are many of them.

In no way does this diminish the tragedy of the event, as my posts have shown, I'm donating to help, both money and spare clothes. I'd donate even more money if the Aussie media would bloody well do a professional job at reporting instead of the "How tough is it going to be to rebuild?" type of questions!!!

People, don't flame agit8dchop, as he is spot on with his observations about our pisspoor, pathetic media saturation. They're all trying to out-rate each other. To them, this bushfire tradegy is great for business. The Herald Sun has a spike in sales, as they've had to print and use more Monopoly game cards than they planned. They never had enough for one in each paper.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 11:52 PM
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reply to post by Agit8dChop
 


I get what you are saying. If I may, it's a bit like something out of frontline. Like, there's a guy behind the scenes going "okay, we need to find someone who is able to cry. Okay focus on them". In a lot of ways its like leading the witness "...and, dont you feel this?" "do you think?" to these poor shocked traumatized victims.
yes, it does come off in parts as condercending and disrespectful . National 9 news last nite ran a bit of an interview last nite with a survivour, a mother of 2 (thankfully, her children survived but not most of the people she knew) and she was putting on a brave face but they houndf her with questions and you could see they wanted her to break so they could put "a human face" on things. You could almost tell the exact point the cameramans concience kicked.

On saying that, Australian mainstream media has always been manipulative. But i am prepared tn let it go. Not everyone in this country has the insight to see these things like you and me and the media is going out to a lot of people in this time of crisis. Im not being derogatrive when i say theres no room for subtltrey and the widest way to reach people is the lowest common denominator.

I hope no one thinks im being a prick by saying these things. = ( i can assure you the sentiment is very real

PS Im sure other aussie media like the Australian would give a much more dignified touch.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 11:55 PM
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I looked this thread up because I was sickened to read that more Arson may yet be going on -


POLICE are close to arresting an arsonist suspected of setting a blaze in Gippsland, as reports emerge that several fresh fires were deliberately lit in the Beechworth area overnight.

Victorian Premier John Brumby said he believed the 100 police officers in Taskforce Phoenix were "close to finalising investigations" into the south Gippsland fires which left 21 people dead.

He said it was virtually impossible to believe that people would be still lighting fires given the current situation.

It is believed police have a description of a car used by those allegedly responsible for the overnight blazes in Beechworth.

What a horrible thing!

I could recommend some locations in Alaska where the Arsonists would never walk out - seriously.

My prayers will be with the victims. I hope it ends now. The evil men can do never ceases to amaze.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 12:08 AM
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As someone that has spent the last 3 days working in one of the worst areas Agit8dchop does raise a valid point about the media. They are at times leechers
The other day im hosing down still smoldering trunks in what was once a pine platation and some -anker cameraman wants to film me. Im all what the hell. Grab a effing hose and help, but i suppose that doesnt bring in the ratings....

However the assumption by some re global warming is at fault is not quite correct.
Now i work at the moment in forestry/plantation management and me and all the guys that work there have been telling the local councils, state governments and departments and just about anyone that will listen that this was going to happen.
In some areas you can get a buildup of 3-4 tonnes per hectare, per year of leaves, twigs. branches and dead fallen trees. The leaves and small branches may rot away quite quickly but the others dont. Multiply this by the number of years since a fire went through and quite quickly very dangerous conditions develop. If proper forestry practices based on the Australia environment that has been shaped by thousands of years of Aboriginal burning and FUEL reduction was used then the fires would not have been so hot or spread so quick and lives would have been saved. We push for reconcilliation yet we totally ignore how they managed this country.
These practices have fallen out of favour due to pressures from the greens and an ideology adapted from overseas that is not suitable for Australian conditions and the flora that grows here.
Forests MUST be burned on a regular basis to reduce fuel loads, thin out the weaker trees and allow for the regeneration of some plant species. Why do you think some native plants require either heat or smoke to germinate? Why do you think alot of our gums and other trees have a lignotuber?
The DSE and other government departments also need to start consulting experts rather than greenies whos credentials at times are a joke. Perhaps the media and goverments should talk to people like Athol Hodgson, Rod Incolli, Phil Cheney, Peter Attiwill, Brian Gibson, Kevin Wareing, Barrie Dexter, Vic Jurskis and others that are considered experts in there fields rather than people blinded by ideologies and at times rather dubious credentials and usually driving an argument on emotions rather than facts after all these people i have mentioned are consided to be amongst the best in the world so why not listen to them. Oh thats right these people all contradict what the greens are trying to brainwash the masses to believe.
They also need to weed out these so called green "experts" and their supporters that infest the public service and government ministries and ensure these jobs are filled by qualified people and not an extension of these extreme green groups, that they currently are.


Perhaps the so called greens should change there name to "The Blacks" after all, summer after summer our countryside is reduced to this colour because of them and their supporters that just dont have a clue about the how the Australian environment has evolved and what is need to keep our bushland healthy.

Sorry for the rant but need to vent some anger. im off to have the first shower and decent meal ive had for a couple of days and try to get a good nights sleep before back tommorow morning into a blackened nightmare.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by Kalrana
 

Kalrana, the only way I could be critical about some of your claims would be that today's fire management can't be the same as how the Aboriginies managed fires in the past.

We've inhabited a lot of the land and screwed it over by being here. We've deforested vast amounts of land, so we have to be careful with the forests that we have left. If Victoria was untouched by roads, suburbs, houses and other infrastructure, then sure, we could burn large forests annually.

We can't repeat the past, we need better ways to manage the bush fire hazard that will work today and that can be adjusted to work for the future.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 12:38 AM
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reply to post by tezzajw
 


Agree 100% with what we have allowed to happen to this country and in some cases still do is a joke and needs to change but we must start to manage our forests more effectively. Im not advocating wide spread logging or stuff like that. We need to burn sections of our forests on a regular basis and do it over autumn/winter. I was involved in widespread burning through the state last winter but we had to stop because the smoke was blanketing melbourne for a couple of days and everyone was complaining and the government "requested" that we stop.
Our crew only completed 5% of the burns that we where asked to do. Im sure others where about the same levels when we stopped



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by Kalrana

However the assumption by some re global warming is at fault is not quite correct.
Now i work at the moment in forestry/plantation management and me and all the guys that work there have been telling the local councils, state governments and departments and just about anyone that will listen that this was going to happen.
In some areas you can get a buildup of 3-4 tonnes per hectare, per year of leaves, twigs. branches and dead fallen trees. The leaves and small branches may rot away quite quickly but the others dont. Multiply this by the number of years since a fire went through and quite quickly very dangerous conditions develop. If proper forestry practices based on the Australia environment that has been shaped by thousands of years of Aboriginal burning and FUEL reduction was used then the fires would not have been so hot or spread so quick and lives would have been saved. We push for reconcilliation yet we totally ignore how they managed this country.
These practices have fallen out of favour due to pressures from the greens and an ideology adapted from overseas that is not suitable for Australian conditions and the flora that grows here.
Forests MUST be burned on a regular basis to reduce fuel loads, thin out the weaker trees and allow for the regeneration of some plant species.



My thoughts Exactly Kalrana and being in forestry/plantation management area makes you an authority on this sort of situation.
If there was BACK BURNING practices of burning ever 3-5ys max,a fire like we have seen here should not be so Intense and could be controlled.


Originally posted by Zelong
Now watch all these Do-gooder politicians Act like their in Shock at what has happened when we the People of Australia know that it's these Morons that should be preventing these Fire-Storms from happening by Allowing BACK BURNING in Winter time to Prevent Fire-Storms but NO these Wankers feel they need the Greens,tree hugers votes!!

What about the Animals they have no where to go!!! if there was BACK BURNINGdone these poor Animals would of had some where to run for Safety!!

Look Our Moron politicians are Guarding them selfs already!

Source:


Politicians have been warned not to play the blame game as debate starts about the causes of the savage fires in Victoria.



Zelong.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 06:32 AM
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One of Victoria's deadliest fires not a result of arson, say police






ARSON has been ruled out as the cause of the Kinglake bushfire, one of the deadliest of the Victoria fires.

More than 100 people died in the fires that burnt through Kilmore, Humevale, Taggerty and Wandong and surrounds on Saturday.

Police have also ruled out arson in three other blazes - Bendigo-Maiden Gully, Redesdale and Mudgeegonga.




www.news.com.au...


At least there's still some good news going around.

I just thought that you guys should read this article, if you haven't already read it.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 06:44 AM
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the way i hear it, it is the Gippsland fire or fires in which the forensic evidence suggests arson...

And what was brentoncrazy saying last nite?

The fires around there are also threatening our water supply and gas.

But at least the man made/deliberate part of all this is a minimum - though terrifying the actions of this one man is!



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 09:10 PM
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media.news.com.au...

This link just seemed important to me.
A few pictures of some of the young and old who have lost their lives in this disaster.

[edit on 11/2/2009 by just_julie]



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by Agit8dChop
 



farout... media circus??????


people are missing many homes havent even been accessed as yet... these missing people are still lying burnt inside their homes!!!
Loved ones are still waiting for news of their loved ones...

media circus?? what about the effing arsonists who lite more fires YESTERDAY?

You think 180 people is not much?????? Doesn't warrant media attention??

there are still over 80 people still unaccounted for?? thank FFFFFKKKKKk that my family were able to make contact with our relatives...the area has not been contained. We had an enduring wait until we finally got news that they were ok...

your attitude is bollocks Agit8dChop...


Well I am sure as hell happy to watch news footage of loved ones being reunited. I am also happy to see news footage of people helping injured animals oh and yes, call me a media sucker but I like watching accounts about the heros.. I like to see Aussie CFS volunteers busting their arse trying to protect lives...and getting some recognition for it...

pfft







[edit on 11-2-2009 by Thurisaz]



posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 12:01 AM
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a fire ignited in melbourne city, I forget where but in a park somewhere. breaking news, not sure what's happened since.



posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 12:06 AM
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Banks 'breaking all the rules' in bushfire

Families have lost everything in Australia's worst peace-time disaster, but how keen are the banks to put aside profit and show compassion to Victoria's devastated bushfire victims?

Each of the major banks - ANZ, Commonwealth, NAB and Westpac - have made $1 million donations to bushfire appeals.
Despair and hope in Narbethong

But for victims whose homes and possessions have been obliterated, their bank mortgages - and therefore their repayment obligations - remain intact.

Many of the banks could not say today whether they would go as far as dissolving a home loan for someone who has lost everything.

But all said they were encouraging customers to tell the bank of their hardship and would do what was possible.

Westpac has even flown its senior executive in charge of retail banking to fire-ravaged Victoria to experience the devastation first-hand and help ensure the bank treats clients compassionately.

The four major banks say they will suspend fire victims' mortgages for three months - the period insurance claims normally take to be processed.


Despite reports this morning some banks had told customers they would have to repay interest accrued in that period, each bank confirmed to smh.com.au that they were giving victims a three-month break from their mortgages.

ANZ and NAB were also offering a $10,000 grant to customers whose homes have been completely destroyed in the fires.

All the banks were also dumping assorted fees, such as for refinancing and for early term deposit withdrawals.

"I think the overwhelming key message from us is that we will do what it takes," said a NAB spokeswoman.

Peter Hanlon, Westpac's retail and business banking group executive, ditched the suit and Italian shoes and pulled on jeans and R M Williams' boots when he flew from Sydney to be on the ground in the bushfire zone.

He says the bank is regularly breaking its own rules.

"This is Australia's largest natural disaster in its European history ... the disaster relief package works really well but it's redundant because we are overstepping it," he said.



The bank would seriously consider completely dissolving a home loan for a bushfire victim, he said.

"Yes we would, we've done it before ... and before this is over I'm sure we will do it here and quite frankly all the other banks will too.

"People say why don't you do it for everybody but not everyone wants to do that. Some people don't want charity and don't want to be seen as helpless."

Mr Hanlon arrived in Victoria on Tuesday, and has spent time in some of the worst affected towns such as Whittlesea and Kinglake.

"I'm getting the information from the affected people first hand which means I make a phone call and because of my position, things happen quickly," he said.

"We sat down with a customer in Kinglake yesterday ... these people wanted to talk but could hardly get the words out."

"They've lost everything, were wearing clothes that have been donated, said they weren't insured, and were cashing a cheque for $1000 from the Victorian government.

"So we authorised a $20,000 payment there and then."

There were many examples of banks breaking the rules to help victims, he said, such as the setting up mini branches in libraries where people could cash relief cheques.

"People were worried that if they left the towns they couldn't get back in because of road blocks, so they were staying at relief centres, sleeping in halls, and they've got these relief cheques with no access to a bank facility," he said.

"What the team did, breaking all the rules, is shove some money in a cash box, take some scraps of paper for deposit slips and then set up in the local library.

"It normally takes us six months to open a branch and they did it in 30 minutes."

In New Orleans after hurricane Katrina, it took eight weeks for makeshift banks to be set up, he said.


The reach of the banks into the business community has also helped provide relief to fire victims.

Bank managers who have spent years cosying up to business clients to sell insurance have been able to use those relationships in a good cause.

Mr Hanlon told of business clients contacting their bank managers to donate generators and mattresses to relief centres.

At the mini-branches in Kinglake and Whittlesea, the rudimentary cash-boxes and paper scraps have heralded a more old-fashioned, personal banking experience.

"Ninety second transactions are taking 10 minutes, because everyone wants to talk," Mr Hanlon said.

"We are going to have a lot of scarred staff because they're doling out cash and listening to 200 to 300 stories a day of what has happened to these people.

"It's the same with emergency services people ... the shock wave of this tragedy is going to flow through so many people."



Wow, just wow. I never EVER thought I would see the day the bankers became compassionate. I still can't shake the feeling that there is a hidden agenda here somewhere.


[edit on 12/2/2009 by Kryties]



posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 01:58 AM
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Just quickly,

There was just a news item about a fire deliberatley started in Ivanhoe. Ivanhoe is a built up area - well away from the fire front.
It's all under control now. The only real big problem being a waste of resources.

Actually, apparently there was two. One on the golf course and another in the Yarra flats area (which, i believe is Park Land).

For some reason, I can't find anything about this online (?) but then again, it's just sorta happend.



posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 02:00 AM
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reply to post by Nventual
 


Could the Ivanhoe fires be what you heard about? It is about 20 minutes from the city (on the brunwick side)



posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 05:55 AM
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Does anyone know why they aren't raising the death toll, not that i want it to, but it hasn't risen in over a day, are they not telling us because its so high or have the genuinely not found anybody else?



posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 06:36 AM
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reply to post by iced_blue
 


I think it is because they have not yet found or determined the remains of the rest of them. Some of the bodies (and I say this with the deepest respect) have been burned so badly that they are almost unrecognisable from the rest of the rubble around them.



posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by Kryties
 


Almost unbelieavable what the banks are doing to help those people, absolutely brilliant, if theres any form of silver lining its the banding together we're all seeing at such a hard and traumatic time.

Its outstanding that the banks have literally thrown out the rules and gone back to handing out cash and working from paper to help their people, I work in banking in the UK and i can guarantee if any such situation occured over here not ONE single bank would do that, pretty much the same over the rest of the world - people too bothered about covering their own backs. Stunning.



posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 10:17 PM
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20 feb 2009 Update: 208 dead now.

2nd line.



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