'Free Energy' DIY Anyone?

Originally posted by XL5
Why it has to loop is because it can if its free energy.

I think I already did say that when modified, the motor can be looped into a self runner, and also gave my version of the explanation why the SSG circuit cannot be looped 'as is', due to the chemical/physical phenomenon associated with pulsed charge and pulsed draw.

If I had made it and found it was 130% eff, the first thing I'd do is try every way I know how to loop it! For me, to prove to my self that "I" haven't miscalculated or measured, I would have to loop it and see if it keeps on going and not just puts out more energy but "makes" energy as well.

I would make something exactly as stated, then, WHEN IT WORKS I would moddifiy it one step at a time.

I think that is the goal of most (if not all) people who join the group. Unfortunately, people like me do not have your electronic skill/experience, so I must follow directions rather than apply independent knowlege.

In this case however, that means I have progressed and you are still stuck on the starting grid.

BTW, I made it very clear in a lot of my posts that the motor is not over unity or 130% efficient. In fact, I state that my motor is way less than 50% efficient. Do we have different definitions for efficiency, or are you not listening?

I suggest a test that doesn't need a loop to work, Roger, how many amp hours is the battery? Charge it on a normal charger and let it sit at 14V for 6 hours, then 5 hours of rest, then discharge it at the 20hour rate (if its 10Amphour, discharge it at 0.5amps) then see how long it takes to get to 10.8V. Then, do it again but use the SSG as the charger. No loop needed and it tests real output power, if the battery measures its rated AH rating in the first test and exceeds in the SSG test, then you have free energy.

I need more direction, sorry. Please treat me as a first grader with your instructions.

'How many amp hours in the battery?' How do I measure that?
'14V for 6 hours?' I can't see how that is possible. The voltage of the battery gradually increases as it is charged, so how can it 'sit at 14V'??

The discharge is simple, as that is more or less what I've been doing. Just that I go down to 12V as I don't want to knacker the battery

I have 2 of the same batteries and did use a standard car battery charger on one of them, but it nearly killed the battery. I guess the gel cell could not handle the speed of charge.

Re-reading your instructions, it sounds like you are expecting the battery to have increased capacity when charged with the SSG? If so, where is the logic in that?? Why do you expect the 'jar' to become bigger if the water is a different color? (bad analogy, but you get what I mean right?)

Please re-read my posted results, the methodology. This is about comparing energy in vs energy out, by measuring current, voltage and time, and noticing that more energy comes out than goes in. It DOES NOT suggest that the battery now holds more energy?!?!

Bedini does say, as a bonus, that you get more capacity in the batteries anyway, due to the crystalline structure the radiant creates, and the desulphation, but this is NOT the SSG experiment purpose. To get this benefit, there is a conditioning period, that takes a while and many cycles.

To show the latter, which you seem to want, the experiment suggests you use 2 identical batteries, one attached to the SSG, the other using a standard battery charger. I have not done that, mainly because I don't have a charger that is suitable for the second gel cell.

BTW, are you aware that the SSG can also be run using an input with less voltage than the output. You can actually charge a 12V battery with a 9V battery. Does that make a difference?

best
R

[edit on 13/4/09 by RogerT]

reply to post by Doc Holiday


Hi Doc. Would love you to post a bit more detail, or U2U me.

Thanks.

blah blah add 32 more characters ....

Roger, the battery should have an amp/hour rating listed somewhere on it or researching the model number should list it. Never use a car battery on a gellcell or any other battery except a car battery, some of those chargers go up to 15-16volts. You want to get one that levels out at about 14.1-14.2V and stays there for "a period of time" thats set for that charger and gives it a topping charge, after the topping charge, it gives it a float charge of about 13.5volts.

batteryuniversity.com...

The amps drawn from the battery while the SSG is on and charging the battery compaired to when nothing is charging it will be different if the battery has a different voltage on it. You could do the same measurements when a normal charger is on it and get "free energy". If it doesn't increase the size of the jar and thus, the energy, then there is no real energy gain. If it just fills the jar at say, 10watts and takes 20watts to do so (50%eff) and if draining the jar at 50watts doesn't take the water level down, then its free energy by about 30watts (50-20W).

I still don't feel like you are reading what I'm posting, although it could just be my limited understanding. It would be helpful if someone else would join the discussion to arbitrate.

Originally posted by XL5
The amps drawn from the battery while the SSG is on and charging the battery compaired to when nothing is charging it will be different if the battery has a different voltage on it.

For example, I cannot understand this sentence at all, and how it would relate to anything I posted about the experimental procedure or my measurements.

We are not drawing amps from the battery whilst we are charging. We are charging, then discharging.

One more time then: energy in = current x volts x time as measured by conventional equipment. energy out = current x volts x time as measured by conventional equipment.

I have found that energy out for any given cycle is greater than energy in for that cycle by a factor of about 30%

Bedini says this is because the conventionally measured power (ampsxvolts) is not the only thing going into the battery. There is an additional DC pulsed spike of around 300/400V which comes from the collapsing of the coil. This is the radiant energy, and has nothing to do with the current.

These spikes are converted via a chemical process in the battery and stored as energy which can be later released to do 'conventional' work, such as powering a light bulb.

Could you please respond to that, without complicating matters, and either accept it is true, or suggest an alternative explanation for this 30% extra.

thanks.

reply to post by XL5

You want it to loop to prove "free energy."

There is no such thing as free energy.

But you can slug a circuit with a nickel, and get back dollar bills.

You see, you had to input the nickel. True, you have an extra $0.95, that is free, but it's not really "free." You had to slug a nickel in to start it, and that ain't free!

Me?

I'll take the money.

Once I have it going, I'll use a controller to bleed a nickel off a charged bank, while the other bank is being charged. When it's charged, I'll bleed another nickel off it, and just keep right on trucking.

Since the higher level only takes fifteen minutes to fully charge the largest battery or bank, it's really not that much of a problem.

I just have to put my nickel in one machine one time, extract my $0.95 net, and put my nickel in the other machine and alternate.

Roger, I was under the impression that possibly you meant you got more energy out when the SSG was charging to battery. If the jar or the water in the jar doesn't get bigger the only thing left is the energy coming out of the SSG at any one time while its filling the jar.

Re-reading your instructions, it sounds like you are expecting the battery to have increased capacity when charged with the SSG? If so, where is the logic in that?? Why do you expect the 'jar' to become bigger if the water is a different color? (bad analogy, but you get what I mean right?)

Yeah, if your measuring the battery/jar after you disconect the SSG and the battery/jar had 100% charge/level in it before charging, it should be bigger or there is no extra energy. On the otherhand if the battery was a 50% before you charged it and the SSG uses 20watts in to charge the battery like 50watts would, up to but not beyond 100%, then that is free energy. You could take 20watts back out of the battery, power the SSG with the 20watts it needs and have 30"extra" watts.

I think I see the problem though, you measured the input and output of the SSG and found it to be 50%eff, then you measured the SSG and what it did to the battery and found 130%eff (extra 30% from somewhere). Since you can not measure the output of the SSG without a scope, you have to measure the input of the SSG and the output of the battery. Sure you can measure power into the SSG and power out of the battery but that means nothing!

The reason it means nothing is this: Say you have a huge tank (1000 litres) of water, you can't see how much water is inside at any given time, weigh it or even tap it. You can open a valve and see how much velocity and pressure you have but not the level (energy). Then you charge this big tank with a small hose that fills at 1litre per minute and sucks 0.1litre per minute of water on its inlet. Then you measure the water pressure/velocity on the inlet or outlet of the pump, then you measure the tanks pressure/velocity and find its much higher on both accounts when measured from the tank. The reason for this is that the tank alread has a HUGE amout of stored energy that out weighs the pumps input or output energy for any given time.

For all of this to mean anything, you must know the level of water in the big tank and to do this, you must empty it over 20hours then fill it with a normal pump, then emtpy the SAME tank again over 20hours and the fill it with the SSG pump. Then you can see if there is extra energy.

Originally posted by XL5 if the battery was a 50% before you charged it and the SSG uses 20watts in to charge the battery like 50watts would, up to but not beyond 100%, then that is free energy.

You got it.

That's what is claimed by Bedini et al and that is what I experience.

Thanks for working through this so patiently

Question to you: now you've confirmed I am reporting on a valid FE phenomenon, does that not inspire you to build an SSG yourself and work on converting it into a self runner?

I don't think I would make one of those if I had to choose among all the other free energy devices simply for the fact that they say looping it will kill its effect. I would much rather go with magnetic vortex power like the Hans Coler device or Steven Marks TPU as they weigh less and don't need as much attention as lead acid batteries do.

To loop the SSG, all you really need is an isolated 12V - 12V inverter circuit. You can modifiy a laptops "tube light" inverter as long as it works with 12V, just cut the high voltage windings off and rewind it for 12V output and use fast recovery diodes to rectifiy it to 12.8-13.5V.

Originally posted by XL5
I don't think I would make one of those if I had to choose among all the other free energy devices simply for the fact that they say looping it will kill its effect. I would much rather go with magnetic vortex power like the Hans Coler device or Steven Marks TPU as they weigh less and don't need as much attention as lead acid batteries do.

Got a good link for the Hans Coler or the TPU?

Have you intention to build these in the near future - would be great to have someone else contributing some practical stuff to this thread?

To loop the SSG, all you really need is an isolated 12V - 12V inverter circuit. You can modifiy a laptops "tube light" inverter as long as it works with 12V, just cut the high voltage windings off and rewind it for 12V output and use fast recovery diodes to rectifiy it to 12.8-13.5V.

This is all Greek to me Might as well have told me to put it in the fridge with a strawberry on top.

I'll do some homework and see if I can make more sense of it later.

Best to you and thanks for your contributions to date.

R

Here's a link to a detailed Word document (5.5MB Zip file) for a Jakelj Magnetic Motor.

Here's a very comprehensive overview of all things 'Free-Energy' related.

p.s. it is best considered free energy imho, since it is an interaction (or magnetic resonance) with the abundant Quantum foam that permeates all Space at perhaps super-luminary speeds. This ZPE is like a galactic Arc lamp, charging all wavelets of energy it touches.

Question: If the Sun suddenly exploded, would it take 8minutes for the Earth to spin off at 90degrees?

I do not plan on making either quite yet, I still have many experiment projects to do, that have a better chance at working. If I was going to make either the Hans Coler or the TPU, I would go with the TPU as I think its a simplified version of the Hans Coler device. I may try making one when I get an O-scope.

www.rexresearch.com...

Any chance you'll share with us what you're working on and how far along you are?

What I'm working on right now isn't free energy. I'm making a small switching powersupply to charge leadacid batteries at 13.6V (float charge). Its going on my home made scooter as a way to keep them fresh between charges. I have all the parts, just need a good way of keeping the amps down or it may burn out.

I also need to add bigger fins or add filler material to reduce the clearance between the case and the rotor of my leaf blower to add more force. Im going to put it on my bike. Haven't started yet and theres about 4 other projects I'd like to do as well.

Free energy takes last place for me as I can never really put something down untill its done and stay up way too late. I also hate it when the project shows no promise even after weeks have gone by with no results. In the end, if I did make a free energy device, I would give it out for free.

I came up with an interesting device a few years back, but due to the amount of rare earth magnets I would need, along with raw materials to build this thing (probably building it more than once, as it would be trial and error) just seem too high to me to attempt on what I make and live on. I am fairly confident that it would work. It's similar to a lot of those 'perpetual motion' machines you see on youtube and such, except it takes in to consideration a few major downfalls of ALL of the models I have seen online, and I have seen quite a few.

reply to post by Demonis


Do you have any plans you could post?

Rodger T-

I don't know if you missed this somewhat recent thread, but it's pretty interesting also-

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm just about ready to assemble my plates on my HHO booster(Smack device) as the housing is completed.(finding long nylon thread was a pain!)

The above forum's discussion is a magnetic motor in which I did blow the $$ for the plans. Very Interesting! As I said in my post on that thread, their key is the way the coils are wound. Very easy plans to follow and very discriptive.

reply to post by geo1066


Thanks for the heads up. I've followed the thread and keep my eye on it. Something about it just didn't ring the bell for me, but would love to know how you're doing with your own work.

Please keep posting here when you get something going.

I'm back at work landscaping for another month or so while the weather is good, so have laid FE to the side for a short while.

I still didn't even write up my Bedini experiment and apply to the advanced group, but will do so soon enough.

Best
R

I just saw a tv ad from a well-established hardware chain, of an attachment for battery operated drills whereby the device will increase torque by a factor of ten so that the drill can be used to loosen/tighten lug nuts, etc. and I'm wondering if the higher torque can be used to turn a generator large enough to output more power than what the drill uses ie. an overunity setup?

Originally posted by RogerT
I'm back at work landscaping for another month or so while the weather is good, so have laid FE to the side for a short while.

I still didn't even write up my Bedini experiment and apply to the advanced group, but will do so soon enough.

That's unfortunate, RogerT. I have been very curious about what goes on in these Bedini groups and what level of technology they actually have, and I was really looking forward to your report on the advanced group.