What is with all the "Christianity-Debunking" attempt threads?

Originally posted by thehumbleone
reply to post by justamomma

 

I don't waste my time arguing doctrines anymore.

Like I said before, you pick one certain part of the gospel that fits your criteria.

But just for you; let's look at what your contention is. You are arguing that because Jesus did not want to help this woman at first, that it somehow makes him a bad person. But does it really?

What was the end result? Did he grant the womans request or not? He did in fact grant her request.

There are many other instances in the Gospels where he helps out Gentiles.

As I said, this is a case of someone trying to single out certain parts of the Gospel to fit their agenda.

[edit on 2/7/2009 by thehumbleone]

Actually, I see it as pointing out the bigotry and intolerance of the Christian Religious doctrine. Furthermore, it is not the only example in the KJ of this attitude towards anyone not of the chosen race.

Funny how you sidestep the actual language of the exchange between Jesus and the Woman. Mind you, the entire story was written down fifty or more years after it happened by a third party who wasn't even there. Not real good legal standing. Running on Faith.

I"ve found that 'most' people that want to bash Jesus, and God, are ones that don't like authority and will fight tooth and nail to keep from having to adhere to anyone's "laws" or "rules"..........if those laws and rules interfere with their having fun in their lives.

Simply put, they don't like being held accountable - and God holds us accountable - ALL of us - whether we choose to believe in Him or not.

And this is our downfall - look around, read the day's headlines - then read Daniel and Revelation in the King James Bible. The most level headed of us won't possibly be able to miss the numerous connections. And most don't, but they "choose" to ignore them because they don't want to have to address any sins in their own lives.

And that mentality will work out just fine for you here on Earth. Here in our world, satan is ruling right now - everyone can do what they want and when they want, all without pretty much any chastising or accountability, as long as it's not criminal activity.

Wanna have quick sex? There's a website to find someone to hook up with within the hour. Wanna score some weed? You have a friend who has a friend. Wanna go hang out at a gay club? They're located all over every city across the nation.

And no, I'm not perfect, in fact I'm a human being just like all of you are. But I'm a human being that worships God, and fears the consequences of not obeying His rules - just as most children do with their earthly fathers. Your parent(s) gave you ground rules and what happened when you disobeyed? Did your father pat you on the head and say not to worry? Of course not.
So why do people think that God should.

All of us really need to start looking ahead to "the day" that everything comes to a head. We can invent all the new age religions we want but that isn't, and won't, stop Jesus from returning, and it isn't going to put a damper in God's plans for us, nor His planet.

Over the last 20 or so years it has become "fashionable" to diss God and His laws. Mankind wants things "comfortable" and "convenient", not to have to bother will "silly" laws of our Creator. Mankind has become so spoiled that we fight back when someone threatens to pull us out of our comfort zone.

As a Christian, let me give you a big heads up - what's going on out there right now is nothing compared to what's coming. Barry's not going to fix it, the military isn't going to fix it, your mayor isn't going to fix it........... the Bible makes it crystal clear what it would take for God to 'heal the nation'. And that is to turn from our sins, repent and start abiding by the rules for a change.

And you can take this as a Christian spewing propaganda if you choose, that sort of thing doesn't bother me in the least (it causes me concern for your soul more than anything) - but our time in this world is fast coming to an end. Regardless of what Good Morning America says, regardless of what Fox News says, regardless of what Hwood says - the end days aren't about news, celebs or the latest American Idol winner.

The end days are when God will determine where *we* are going to spend eternity. And there are only two options.
Yes, there IS a hell - it is created for the ones of us that refused to bow before God, and accept Jesus Christ, His Son, as our Lord and Savior. Pride is what causes most people to refuse to humble themselves before Him. And Pride is what's going to keep millions and millions of people out of Heaven.
That's not what *I* say - that's what God says.

If you want to consider this 'doom and gloom' then so be it. But please don't forget, it's also our 'reality'. Our cushy lit'l comfort zones get torn down on the last day. And until then, we have the option of making our own choice.

reply to post by nomorecruelty


I didnt even finish reading your posts....because I stopped when you made the assumption that people that dont agree with the god of the Bible or Jesus just dont like authority or rules.

I am a mother of three....I know how important rules are to run a ship. I followed the teachings of the bible my whole life...unitl about 3 yrs ago.

I can tell you that god doesnt work the way the religious fold think thee does. ANd you wont find this out because the bible makes you fear to even glance at another view....or to use your own understandings.

God is oh so real...but god is not a dictator...doesnt give commands...doesnt intervene....and does not 'judge' you. Being that you are a part of the divine...you will judge yourself, with a divine eye. You will also judge everyone you have ever crossed paths with...anyone that has ever been a part of YOUR matrix.

People need to stop assuming things ( like people that dont follow the bible dont like authority). You only say things like that to make yourself feel better that you are right and you know the way. IT is a ego trip for yourself and for the others that are stuck on the 'bible' path.

There are great truths in the bible...but yet is the most dangerous book on this planet.

Just as though you cant prove your thoughts, opinions and beliefs....I cant prove mine...but I do dare anyone....if you ever have enough hope that god is not seeking to damn you for exploring this world and this life of flesh and all the mysteries therin....there are great things awaiting the spiritual seeker when you are ready. Until then, religions do serve a purpose that does seem fit enough to help one along. But there is more.....I promise.

Peace,
LV

With all due respect, LV, it sounds as though satan has you right where he wants you.

God wasn't made to be a 'convenient' God - He wasn't, and isn't, made in our image, rather we are made in His. He is a loving God but also a just God. Man didn't create God - God created us. And as our Creator, He makes the "house rules", so to speak.

Regardless whether *you* choose to believe in Him, or His scriptures, won't alter His plans, or schedule.

And I do beg to differ on not being able to 'prove' my statements - one has to look no further than the King James Bible to satisfy any questions on its authenticity. Non believers always demand that believers 'prove', scientifically, that He exists. History is recognized just as much as science, and the history of the Bible speaks for itself.

Bottom line, God has rules. The majority of mankind doesn't like rules. This makes satan a very happy angel.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
With all due respect, LV, it sounds as though satan has you right where he wants you.

God wasn't made to be a 'convenient' God - He wasn't, and isn't, made in our image, rather we are made in His. He is a loving God but also a just God. Man didn't create God - God created us. And as our Creator, He makes the "house rules", so to speak.

Regardless whether *you* choose to believe in Him, or His scriptures, won't alter His plans, or schedule.

And I do beg to differ on not being able to 'prove' my statements - one has to look no further than the King James Bible to satisfy any questions on its authenticity. Non believers always demand that believers 'prove', scientifically, that He exists. History is recognized just as much as science, and the history of the Bible speaks for itself.

Bottom line, God has rules. The majority of mankind doesn't like rules. This makes satan a very happy angel.

See....your assuming I have no relation to the divine...your assuming I havent stood in the presence of angels....your assuming a book is giving you all the answers over the mind the creator bore you with and the secrets left to you in the nature that wombs you.

I have seen with my own eyes....how we judge ourselves...its not about 'rules'...its about learning our turest nature so our will becomes divine order. Yes there are guidelines to be a prime being....and yes it is the road less traveled....but the bible is not the only way and is misleading many in a supernatural intervention.

God is waiting on us...not us waiting on God.

I can never say that enough...for the divine has seered it into my flesh.

As soon as you see someone not abiding the way of the book (the material object that we are NOT to live for)....you accuse me of Satan.

If a angel stood before you telling you of things different then your mind accepts, would you recognise your divine other?

You are tuaght to await...because it makes things easier for the ones gaining power. You are taught god will save the day...because it brings others to NOT do anything about making this sphere what it should be. You are taught everything that is other then the bible is of Satan...because that is exactly what the elite need you to believe. You are following the ones that channeled their ego thousands of years ago. Stick with Jesus's teachings and youll do fine. But careful of the blood placing on gods hands....God only needs you to be aware of who and what you are.

I am defiantly a believer....but I thump logic and nature....not supernatural and material objects.

When you reach the point of the divine will becoming a order...then you understand why Jesus did not fight to live....it had nothing to do with the sacrifice everyone was awaiting from the OT teachings...but had everything to do with a unblemished spirit remaining righteous. He was a man...who knew we were all of the same fabric...of the divine emanation....he was the highest embodiment of a human that has ever been on this sphere.

But each path has purpose...some paths though are very 'stilling'....not allowing the spiritual self to continue their growth.


What history of the bible speaks for itself....this will be interesting....I hope you include some of the bloody battles that god demands man to commit to...and please include the history of the men that were so full of themselves they couldnt tell apart their own mind voice from the divine....

Yahweh is not god...but only is the ego of man wishing to be.

God is nameless and is a force...not something your going to go sit beside in heaven one day while people burn in hell.

Like I said..the book is dangerous...for these reasons. People await god to fix things....they await jury duty for the ones they think are bad people, they loose hope because they are taught that god looses hope...but you couldnt be more wrong in that. Death is not finite for anyone....you either remain in a lower vibration, relearning...or you ascend a higher vibration....reaching all possibilities that are infinite.

With all due respect as well
LV

reply to post by nomorecruelty


Im not looking for scientific proof...I have experienced worlds that no science will ever be able to touch...as much as a hate to think about that...it is so real and unexplainable.

See, your making assumptions....

This is what bugs me

This is why I speak out

One person can not speak for another

I discovered the nature of god wasnt what I was taught through experience...not through my bucking of rules or the bible not being scientifically sound enough for me.

But my experiences then should me all the places there were errors...and from that moment on...I speak and humble myself daily.

ALl I can do is speak from my soul...just as you are doing from yours of what you know...

Peace
LV

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
With all due respect, LV, it sounds as though satan has you right where he wants you.

God wasn't made to be a 'convenient' God - He wasn't, and isn't, made in our image, rather we are made in His. He is a loving God but also a just God. Man didn't create God - God created us. And as our Creator, He makes the "house rules", so to speak.

Regardless whether *you* choose to believe in Him, or His scriptures, won't alter His plans, or schedule.

And I do beg to differ on not being able to 'prove' my statements - one has to look no further than the King James Bible to satisfy any questions on its authenticity. Non believers always demand that believers 'prove', scientifically, that He exists. History is recognized just as much as science, and the history of the Bible speaks for itself.

Bottom line, God has rules. The majority of mankind doesn't like rules. This makes satan a very happy angel.

Some proof that MAN created god have a look at this link

link www.lowchensaustralia.com...

All the gods listed on that site were believed in by men on this planet , they all have creation stories, they are all different ,they all deserve to believed in just as much as the god you want to believe in, thats why we shouldn't believe in yours because they are all FAIRY TALES including yours!
Religion is about brain washing get them early enough you will keep some of them but then again some people learn to think for themselves.

I can not answer for anyone but myself, and here it is:

I am the creator of one of those 'debunking threads' And I created it because, and only because, I was tired of seeing "Christianity is the only right way."

And that is what the higher ups in the church(es) do. Even your book says "Your way, or the high way." When someone puts an ultimatum to me, like that, I take the high way EVERY TIME.

So I started looking into things, started looking to see just "how right" it actually was. For me, it was 2 to 4% right. Most of that being the "golden rule", which all other religions have by the way. (That I know of.)

To this day I see many many many X-tians pushing "their way" onto others. Then they wonder why the others dislike them. Just because you don't see the evil, does not mean it does not exist. If you push, someone bigger is going to shove.

Welcome to the shove.

No one is 'pushing' anyone. My posts are my thoughts and views. When the Bible was first written, it was "the book", God's laws. Over time, "man" decided he wanted to start questioning God.

Over more time, "man" decided he wanted to worship other gods, besides God.

More time passed - and "man" decided that he didn't need God at all.


Welcome to today. Look around - do you think there is any connection with the state of our world right now and what the Bible has predicted? It hasn't missed a prophecy yet - and it won't. Time will be the proof for that. Just keep watching out your window, my friend.

You state you are a "believer" but I have to question what it is, or who, you believe in. Obviously it's not God, or Jesus?

"Pride" is going to be the downfall of a whole lot of people. That entire mentality that "no one, but no one is going to tell ME what to do". Those kinds of thoughts come straight from satan. If you have a problem with being aligned with satan, I'm not sure what to tell you. The Bible says that if you are against God then you are with satan. And it would probably be a waste of time to provide "proof" of God, Jesus or the Bible to someone that seems so defiant in their choices.

If you can live with your choices, make sure you can die with them, that's all I can say.

Bible Codes are scientific and supernatural proof of God. Creation is the proof of God. Science is proof of God. Unfortunately everyone ignores this, because God also says to not have sex before marriage and not to do things this generation expects to do. Sorry that Creator knows best guys. I've made predictions in Moby Dick too, and they suck as much as the skeptic's predictions. No skeptic can possibly to this very day and hour come up with anything close to the level of detail the pro codes researchers have found in a controlled experiment. You guys just overlook it because you don't want to follow the Ten Commandments or morals. Before you say we made morals ourselves and can do that for ourselves you're right. Even cheetah's only pray on the sick animals, and they spare the baby antelope because they may be a mother. However the Ten Commandments are instructions from God to keep in his favor. I would listen to a being that can create the vast expanses of the cosmos if I were you. There's a lot of asteroids out there and stars named Eta Carinae that could explode any minute next year. Wouldn't want that to go happening. However I don't want that to happen either, but unfortunately for modern society who only cares about money and cars and other useless things it must.

Agreed, watchtheashes - and it does seem that people just don't want to have to abide by the rules, or God's laws. There are more than ten commandments but only ten were on the tablets.

Adultery has just become commonplace today - society thinks you are odd if you don't have premarital sex. How's that for proof mankind has gotten his priorities all out of whack.

People today, including some people I know personally, have tossed God for a more "convenient" belief or religion.

There's a preacher out of Alabama, Paul Washer, who in 2002, spoke at a youth conference - and these kids' parents raised tee total you know what at what he had preached to their children.

Paul Washer had the audacity to preach the truth ! He told them that salvation wasn't just saying a simple prayer then going back to living in the sins they were when they walked in the door. You can here the entire video here.

The parents weren't too happy - why? Because like most people today, they don't want to hear the truth. They only want to hear a preacher speak of the good things about God - not about sin and hell and satan.

Paul Washer stood his ground and the next place he preached, he told them upfront that he probably wouldn't be invited back when his sermon was done. He's a good guy though - and I appreciate him for standing out from the 'world' and preaching straight from the scriptures. Seems not many people want to hear the truth any more.

Bottom line, there is only one God, and one Jesus.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
No one is 'pushing' anyone. My posts are my thoughts and views. When the Bible was first written, it was "the book", God's laws. Over time, "man" decided he wanted to start questioning God.

When the bible was first written was after 70AD, and it was written by man. Your 'God' may be infallable, but (and Christians agree) man is not.

So you should say that "the book" was the human (more man than woman due to the time period) intrepretation of 'God's laws'. And over time 'man' realized that the book was written by peers, and might not be so prophetic.

All sources for my claims are in my thread "The Hero Pattern".

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
Over more time, "man" decided he wanted to worship other gods, besides God.

More time passed - and "man" decided that he didn't need God at all.

Technically all of this happened WAY BEFORE Christianity was a twinkle in exstances eye. You know the saying "History repeats itself."?

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
Welcome to today. Look around - do you think there is any connection with the state of our world right now and what the Bible has predicted? It hasn't missed a prophecy yet - and it won't. Time will be the proof for that. Just keep watching out your window, my friend.

Corralation does not equal causation. Coincidences happen, and as for all of those 'unmissed' prophecies, I have yet to be made known of ONE. And lastly, time will never ever tell. Every time it does tell, the big-wigs change the dates around. I will bring up past 'end-times' mumbo-jumbo if you would like, of course it seems a bit off topic.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
You state you are a "believer" but I have to question what it is, or who, you believe in. Obviously it's not God, or Jesus?

I do not think this was intended towards me, but I will answer it just in case. I am agnostic, this means I think (not believe) that there is the possiblity of "more" to existance. I don't even try to comprehend what that "more" would involve, for anything after the word "more" becomes speculation. (AKA Faith, You have faith heaven is real right?)

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
"Pride" is going to be the downfall of a whole lot of people. That entire mentality that "no one, but no one is going to tell ME what to do". Those kinds of thoughts come straight from satan. If you have a problem with being aligned with satan, I'm not sure what to tell you. The Bible says that if you are against God then you are with satan. And it would probably be a waste of time to provide "proof" of God, Jesus or the Bible to someone that seems so defiant in their choices.

Pride? Let's get a definition:

pride   /praɪd/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [prahyd] Show IPA noun, verb, prid⋅ed, prid⋅ing.
–noun 1. a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.

Source

If anything I would say Christians are more proud than I. I do not profess to have 'inside knowledge' nor do I state that 'I am going to heaven, but others won't unless they are like me'. That seems alot like pride, does that mean Christians will be bringing down the world?

reply to post by nomorecruelty


Not to mention the fact that Yeshua and Yahweh are the only ones out of all religions to say not to condone to other religions because only They are right. I don't think any statue of Buddha (The 5th Buddha will be Anti-Christ MAITREYA) or Confucius or Hindu etc. ever claimed to be right. There are many religions out there, but who ever said God ever organized a religion in the first place? Jesus taught about the last days and The Kingdom, not being in a denomination.

EDIT

You can't see swine flu but its there. God is not visible nor can he be proven through scientific analysis. However these same scientists are the ones that made the flu, and you're trusting them? I don't disagree with science at all and I don't say anyone is wrong. I just add to it. Codes however can be proved mathematically, logistically, and scientific analysis. Explain why the skeptics can't make a whole sentence out of monkey texts that isn't skip 1. You really can't explain that. I've seen the best paper against the codes out there and it's 7 terms with 1 in 10,000 chance in War and Peace. The best matrices from pro codes stasticians far exceed 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000 X10 to the x power and most terms relate to the surface text in which it is embedded, and in complete sentences and dates. Its almost like a 1st God view of our world. (Can't say 1st person as that would be like a lie or something degrading to the Divine Yahweh.)

[edit on 30-4-2009 by watchtheashes]

[edit on 30-4-2009 by watchtheashes]

The Bible was written at God's instruction by the prophets He chose. If you choose to not believe, then it's your life, and salvation.

The Bible also speaks of scoffers - so all of these people in society that have chosen to worship someone/thing other than God, is no big shock to Christians.

But, once the tribulation begins, I think there will be a whole bunch of people re-thinking their 'new age' beliefs.

I.e. there's no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole.

Why is the idea of a Creator and prophecy not intriguing to most people? Why is sex and idols(AMERICAN IDOL is very right darn Illuminati) more cool than the fate of mankind and the Creator that longs for his most precious creation to turn to Him? So he can prove his point once and for all. This year you will look at yourself now and then at the end, and it will be WAY different.

[edit on 30-4-2009 by watchtheashes]

reply to post by nomorecruelty


Well what I believe at this point is moot, for I broke your 'God's' unforgivable sin. I did it for the express reason of a one-way ticket to hell, just in case you folks are right.

Hell for me would be living in heaven, knowing that billions upon billions of people were suffering and there was naught I could do. So even your heaven, is not my heaven. Plus worshipping 'God' for eternity sounds ultra boring.

Feel free to offer your 'proof' of Jesus, I call you a liar though. Since I have many reputable Christian sources that say the opposite. "No historical evidence". Read my thread "The Hero Pattern", I brought it back up last week cause of all the Pro-Christian threads. That has all the research and links, I don't feel I should have to re-post all of the links.

--EDIT
This is on topic, at least the last paragraph. I am referencing a 'debunking thread'. Incedently Christians avoid it like a homosexual marriage.

[edit on 4/30/2009 by adigregorio]

Oh and that second part to that post was directed at non-believers not you. I don't have God rule over my life, He GUIDES AND DIRECTS my life so that it may benefit all around me and my friends and family for the better. Then me. He's not a horrible dictator but evil deserves the just punishments. If I commit evil then let Him punish me, for it will keep me from eternal damnation and take me to life in Paradise on Earth (the real heaven and hell for us.) Heaven is God's domain, but we simply die when we die. That's in the Bible.

[edit on 30-4-2009 by watchtheashes]

reply to post by watchtheashes


Science rocks, and has its place, but trying to use it to prove God exists, in my opinion, is an old tactic of the atheists - learned from Darwin.

Science and history both prove the Bible, and history alone proves God and Jesus' existence. I believe sans all the proof in the Bible, but if I were a non believer, I have to think I would be teetering on the fence due to the absolute complete accuracies of prophecy.

It seems people today have ran out of ammunition for the 'evolution' debate - and rightfully so. But regardless of the reason, the bottom line for non believers is usually 'pride', just as the Bible speaks about.

I have a friend who says she believes in God but after a lengthy discussion, she revealed that her 'salvation' was just reading "John 3:16". That's it - no repentance, no asking Jesus to be her Lord and Savior, no turning from her sins - just a verse that you see on posters at ballgames.

reply to post by nomorecruelty


You seem so sure, I would like to ask for PROOF.

Since high ranking members of the Christian faith can't even find this proof, you should run to the streets!!!

And this topic is about 'why there are debunking threads' it is not a platform to spout unfounded rumors about the evidence (or lack there of) for a god and/or Jesus.

Using this as a platform is one of the bigest reasons (IMO) that those debunking threads get started. Everyone hears about all this proof, but no one ever produces it (Unless it is the bible, which is hooey for historical proof.)

Keep spouting the lies about evidence and I will keep asking for the evidence. There is no historical evidence for JC, other than items that may (or may not) have been 'planted' by the early versions of the church.

Again, another reason these debunking threads are started. To combat lies...

reply to post by nomorecruelty


Oh no no these codes by no means replace the written Word. They just show every genealogy and word "thee" and every precise letter were precisely placed in most cases. There will be noise in any text but the Bible makes music. No really. The codes are the music in the noise, but the whole book really does make music.

www.research-systems.com...