What is with all the "Christianity-Debunking" attempt threads?

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
Herein, we fall into the situation during the time of Jesus. Scripture told of his coming yet they did not believe. We have the words of Jesus Christ himself in Revelation with a description of events yet to come...
[edit on 1-3-2009 by HIFIGUY]

You are playing the scriptures off like a WWF wrestling tag team with B.A.C.
I already told you, your scriptures are a game for you.
You do not take the game seriously. Why should I?

But just to humor you,
Provide, for fun, here in this thread,
all of the scriptures that you think Jesus quoted in support of himSelf.
I mean those scriptures that are quoted by Jesus in support of his Identity or ministry in any way.
I'm not talking about those scriptures that other say he "fulfilled".
I'm taking about what he said about himself.
Once we isolate these few, we must then decide whether his words are from his mouth, or whether they are shoved into his mouth by the many hoards who are trying to isolate him as Christ, to the exclusion of others.


Christ!




[edit on 1-3-2009 by Christ!]

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
And yet you christ! make no declaration or claim to having an attachment to those scriptures. How is it that a common person would believe you? Surely Jesus referenced scripture, and fulfilled it. He did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.

By whose authority do you speak?

Peace


[edit on 1-3-2009 by HIFIGUY]

I do not really need to go much past the latter chapters of the pop gospel of John:

John Chapter 20-24

"20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24"Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. "

I am "in" the Father and the Son as much as Jesus.
The Father is "in me" just as much as I am in the Father.
We are one.
I am given the same glory as he from before the creation of the world.
I believe this.
You don't.


What more do you want?

Christ!




[edit on 1-3-2009 by Christ!]

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
He did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.

By whose authority do you speak?

Peace
[edit on 1-3-2009 by HIFIGUY]

Jesus put himself under the Laws of God.
The Laws of God are not the same as the law of this world's gOd.
So Jesus,
Walked on water against the laws of water.
Rose from the dead against the laws of death.
Ascended into the sky against the laws of gravity.

And in many other ways, Jesus fulfilled the Law of God.
In fact, Christ *is* the Law of God.
Jesus understood he was Christ, and *accepted it*.
Comes a time when Christ will break the law of this world's gOd.
"Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to them that believe".
Up until the time when one breaks the law of this world's gOd, he keeps the law of the gOd of this world.
For to be separated, flesh, person, different, unique and special is to keep the law of the gOd of this world.
Jesus "kept" that "law".
Jesus put himself under that law, as did we all.
So, in every way, he fulfilled the law of lies, and the law of truth.
Likewise, everyone is fulfilling the laws of the gOd of this world.
If it is a law that can be broken, it was not really a law.

When Jesus was asked by what authority he spoke, he asked his questioners by what authority John "the baptist" spoke.
So let me ask you, by what authority did John the baptist speak?
Where is John "the baptist" in the old testament?

Christ!



[edit on 1-3-2009 by Christ!]

Originally posted by B.A.C.

The world does not exist.
Yes it does, it may be full of evil but it exists.
This makes you a "friend" of the world.

It is a belief in your mind.
No, it is physical, while Heaven is spiritual.
All physicality is psychosomatic symtoms.
All physicality is a product of faith.
Faith is the "substance" of things unseen.
Faith is the "evidence" of things hoped for.
So faith is the genesis of mental illness.
The world is evidence of a kind of mental illness.
The illness stems from a kind of schizophrenia.
"A house divided against itself".

While you believe in it, it virtually destroys your mind.
If you mean Evil, I agree.
To those whose minds have been destroyed by it,
the world looks like "creation".
They cannot see that it is "hell".
The world conceptually combines "good and evil".
If you look for the "good" it will damn you.
If you look for the "evil" it will damn you.
Each implies that some of it is "real".
But that's a trap.
None of it is real.
You want it to be real.
So "GoD" has given you over to your own ways.
You will be saved when you no longer believe it is either true or real or valuable.



How is that not instructional?
Because the world does exist, though WE should be dead to the world. Not the world dead to us. We should be a Light unto the world.
The world is a fact only within your mind.
To the extent that it is "truth" to you, it will be your "reality".
You take it for granted.
But in fact, you granted the world to yourself as a secret "gift".
God did not grant you the world.
You took it, of your own power.
And you have used it to deny your power...to deny your very Self.
It is all in your mind.
Baptism washes it out of your mind.
You haven't been baptized yet.
You are resisting baptism.
When the world is washed out of your mind, you will be "dead to sin".
Till then, the world will be a place to "live" to you.
But what in the world lives?

The world is a lie against the truth.
No, the evil of the world is a lie.
Here again, you are trapped by the apparent duality of the world.
You think the "good" is "the truth" and the "evil" is the lie.
But I tell you, the concept of both "good and evil" is one lie.
The lie comes from one tree...the tree of "good and evil".
That entire tree is a lie.
The tree of Life is the truth.

How is that slander?
I don't think that was what HIFIGUY was referring to.
What was he referring to?

What is a freind of the world is an enemy of GoD.
I'll agree with that.
You are a friend of the "good" of the world.
So you are a friend of the world.
Your friendship makes you a foe of the truth.


The world is a will opposed to your own true will.
No, the world has no will, but the prince of the air does.
The "prince of the air" is the concept of a will opposed to your own.
Your true will, is united with *Our Father*.
Your false will is united with the "prince of the air".
A false will is a concept.
Indeed, there is no such thing.
However, as I have said, you are empowering this false will with your faith.
You put faith in it because you want it to be true.
I'm telling you that the power of the Son of God is beyond belief.
And you are using that power to power a lie.
If power were "blood", you are bleeding the truth to support a lie.

Flesh against spirit.
Ah, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, I'll agree with that.
Again,
You true will is held by Spirit.
Your false will is held by "flesh".
"Flesh" includes all manner of form, all manner of "person".
"Flesh" is a manifestation of the law of separation.
The law of separation is the "law" of the "prince of the air".
"Flesh" is not of the true GoD.
"Flesh" is not part of the Kingdom of God.
"Flesh" is something you made up, in your mind.
"Flesh" is an unnatural use of mind-power.

Your true will will prevail.
Not necessarily, the spirit is willing, but with some people the flesh prevails.
For a time.
Time is for "flesh".
Time will end, and so will "flesh".
Why?
Because, "the gates of hell will not prevail against [the truth]".
The truth is that you are the Son of God.
I am the Son of God.
Jesus is the Son of God.
But, the Son of God is not:
You
Me
Jesus

"You", "me" and "Jesus" are of the "flesh".
Flesh is not of the Spirit.
Flesh is not the truth...is not our truth.
The Spirit is our truth.
We are Spirit, not flesh.
Believe this and be saved.

Christ!





[edit on 1-3-2009 by Christ!]

reply to post by Christ!


Now you are explaining yourself clearly, which is what I asked for in the first place.

I agree with much you have said. Almost ALL of it can be found in Scripture.

You weren't speaking like this earlier.

So why be against proving yourself with Scripture? Most of your beliefs are almost word for word out of scripture, keep in mind I said most.

"You", "me" and "Jesus" are of the "flesh".
Flesh is not of the Spirit.
Flesh is not the truth...is not our truth.
The Spirit is our truth.
We are Spirit, not flesh.
Believe this and be saved.

I do believe this, I believe my spirit already dwells in the Kingdom. And you're right our minds fight with our hearts non stop.

You think the "good" is "the truth" and the "evil" is the lie.
But I tell you, the concept of both "good and evil" is one lie.
The lie comes from one tree...the tree of "good and evil".
That entire tree is a lie.
The tree of Life is the truth.

Ok you lost me again, please elaborate on this.

You are a friend of the "good" of the world.
So you are a friend of the world.
Your friendship makes you a foe of the truth.

No, I agree there is no good in this world. Save the Scripture, and if you don't consider the Scripture righteous (I don't like the word good), then why do a lot of your beliefs align with it?

Also, what do you have against Paul? I could site verse after verse from him that aligns with a lot of what you're saying.

Let's face it, you must have arrived at these beliefs somehow, if not Scripture (at least to form your beliefs) then how?

This is the type of discussion I wish we could of had earlier.

God Bless

Originally posted by B.A.C.
reply to post by Christ!

 

Now you are explaining yourself clearly, which is what I asked for in the first place.

I agree with much you have said. Almost ALL of it can be found in Scripture.

You weren't speaking like this earlier.

John 16:29-30

29Then Jesus' disciples said, "Now you are speaking clearly and without figures of speech. 30Now we can see that you know all things and that you do not even need to have anyone ask you questions. This makes us believe that you came from God."

Have you ever wondered why, after almost three years with Jesus, the deciples did not "get" what he was trying to say?

If you can "get" what I'm saying after two days of dialogue, that must mean you are a "good" listener, or I am a "good" teacher. Or, perhaps you have started "hearing" what is already written on your heart. Better yet, perhaps you are now hearing the Holy Spirit...better. The Spirit is able to make words mean something to you. Even if the words were lies, the Spirit could "see through" them, if you were willing to "see" with the Spirit.

My point is, the true "gospel" is not what most people think it is. And it may take many years for them to be ready to hear it. Why? Because hearing it more or less threatens everything they have believed for a million years...since the beginning of time. The world is everything everyone has believed since the beginning of time. So, the gospel threatens their whole world.

I have indeed been quoting scriptures.
Most of the time I do not put quote marks around what I say.
The reason is because the scriptures are a mixed bag.
There are wheat and tares together.
I am not here to endorse, indiscriminately, a mixed bushel of wheat and tares.
I'm here to make sense of what has been misunderstood for a long time.
After three years, Jesus' desciple hardly understood him.
What makes you think they conveyed his message flawlessly?
Is it not written that he said they would understand things "later"?
Is it not now up to the Holy Spirit to bring us to an understanding of what he said and meant?
Why do you suppose the Holy Spirit is confined to what is written?
Why should the Holy Spirit be confined to the minds and pens of men who could not understand Jesus after three years?

If you want a "book", or "books" as an authority, I can point you in the right direction.
You see, it takes wisdom to pick the right Teacher.
There are but two teachers in the world.
Telling the difference takes wisdom.
I could tell you which books are authoritative, but would you believe me?
They would not be an authority to you if you were still listening to the world's teacher.
My claim to fame is that I have had the wisdom to pick the right Teacher.
I "hear" his "voice"...so-to-speak.
What I mean is, it sometimes takes "words" to learn how to hear the true Teacher directly.
Words prime the pump, so-to-speak.
Once words tune your ears to the truth, you can hear the truth yourself.
At that point, you are taught directly, by the Teacher himself...the Holy Spirit.

Jesus merely told us what we need to know in order to be taught directly by the Holy Spirit.
Most people cannot hear the Holy Spirit because they do not yet "hear" or understand what Jesus is saying.
They do not "keep his commands", so-to-speak.
They do not keep his words or sayings to heart.
They do not hold fast to what is true about what he said.
We are given second hand information.
We are given censorship.
We are given misunderstandings.

The Holy Spirit has been with you since the beginning of time.
To hear, we must understand Jesus *rightly*.
Jesus heard, and taught rightly.
Hardly anyone since has heard or taught rightly the "gospel" of Jesus.
The good news is that there are authoratative books that can teach you to "hear" the Holy Spirit.
Not until you practice what the books recommend can you "hear" the Word of God directly.
Once you "hear", there is no turning back.
You hear with a deep sense of certainty.
What you hear makes sense, and all fits together, like a seamless robe.
To hear, learn first to doubt what you think you "know".
Learn to discriminate between voices, each teaching opposite lessons.

Christ!





[edit on 2-3-2009 by Christ!]

reply to post by Christ!


I wasn't trying to be antagonistic, I was really trying to understand where you were coming from. I think you've cleared it up a great deal.

Much of our beliefs align, now that I understand what you're saying.

I'm not closed minded, these books are?

Originally posted by B.A.C.
reply to post by Christ!

 

I wasn't trying to be antagonistic, I was really trying to understand where you were coming from. I think you've cleared it up a great deal.

Much of our beliefs align, now that I understand what you're saying.

I'm not closed minded, these books are?

These are my four gospels, so-to-speak.
There is only one gospel.
There are several ways of explaining it.

www.garyrenard.com...
www.acim.org...
www.forholyspirit.org...
www.amazon.com...

The first one on the list may be said to be the "second gospel of Thomas".
It is explained by Thomas, so-to-speak.
The first points to the second.
The second is the gospel as explained directly by Jesus.
The third is a complete interpretation of the New Testament,
as the Holy Spirit would have you hear it.
The fourth is someone's personal experience with resurrection,
and how to achieve it in this lifetime.

I have been an interpreter of these gospels.
I have interpreted from 'within' Christ...as Christ.
The reason, you'll see, is because the core issue is Identity.
The world is the denial of Christ, and begins with unbelief in Christ.
So the world is essentially the denial of Self, through faith in self-concepts.
Self is still "within".
The world is "without".
Both are within our mind.
One is real, the other is not.
It is said that in baptism, we must "identify with Christ".
Well, I am being baptised, and so, I identify with Christ.
When i am finished being baptized what is 'without' will be gone...washed away.
And only what is 'within' will be left standing, in all its glory.
That is why it is said that the coming of the Son of God will be "as in the days of Noah".
It is why baptism is likened to a great flood which sweeps away the whole world.

Christ!






[edit on 2-3-2009 by Christ!]

reply to post by Christ!


I, too, identify with Christ.

Good luck with trying to tell these people - I have been trying to as well.

Originally posted by B.A.C.
Also, what do you have against Paul? I could site verse after verse from him that aligns with a lot of what you're saying.

God Bless

Paul was there, holding coats, the day they stoned Stephen.
This is an omen.
Stephen was among the greatest teachers of Jesus' legacy.
Stephen taught with authority, accuracy, and authenticity.
Stephen, and two others composed a sayings gospel:
"Words of the Master".
Yet we are told nothing of what Stephen taught.
We are only told he was stoned, and Paul was there.
This was twenty years after the resurrection.
Paul "heard" what the great teachers were saying.
He just didn't listen, didn't agree, or didn't understand completely.
In brief, Paul was never fully baptised.
He did not understand.
He thought he understood.
He went off half-baked.
He was a student of Gamaliel...a Pharisee.
Paul introduced, "the leaven of the Pharisees" into Jesus gospel.
Paul served two masters.
Paul compromised the gospel, and rendered it confusing, meaningless, powerless.
Paul 'stole' much of his 'material' from the great teachers.
Paul was like a kid with a Lamborguini.
He did not know how much power he was handling.
He mouthed catch phrases and axioms he had picked up along the path of prosecution.
He took them and went his own way.
The result is that we don't know what Stephen taught.
Nor do we have Stephens gospel.
Stephen's gospel was destroyed as Pauline christianity rose to power.
So, in a way, Paul helped stone the gospel to death with all his words.
Paul plagiarized.
So, some of what Paul says is a remnant of an authentic legacy.
But when it comes out of his mouth, it loses its original meaning.
So, there is a need to see through what Paul says.
Paul is a filter.
If you can see through the filter, you can hear the echo of some of the earliest teaching legacies in the twenty years after the resurrection.
Paul met something on the road to Damascus.
But what he met was deception.
Why not?
He was against the gospel!
He may have changed his ways, but not his stripes.
Why should Paul be forced to understand something overnight,
things Jesus deciples could hardly understand in three years,
though they were somewhat willing?
Keyword: somewhat willing...not entirely.
Why would "Jesus" "blind" Paul when all he ever cared about was to "open the eyes of the blind"?
Indeed, Paul was blinded...but not by Jesus.

One of my favorite catch phrases from Paul is;
"In Christ, there is no Jew or Greek, no male or female, no slave or free".
He did not really understand what this meant.
He just went off half-cocked.

It means there are no persons in Christ.
It means there is no world.

Christ!







[edit on 2-3-2009 by Christ!]

Originally posted by B.A.C.

You think the "good" is "the truth" and the "evil" is the lie.
But I tell you, the concept of both "good and evil" is one lie.
The lie comes from one tree...the tree of "good and evil".
That entire tree is a lie.
The tree of Life is the truth.

Ok you lost me again, please elaborate on this.

Anything in this world that you believe is good and valuable and worth striving for can hurt you, and will do so. Not because it has the power to hurt, but just because you have denied it is but an illusion, and made it real. And it is real to you. It is not nothing. And through its percieved reality has entered into your mind all the world of sick illusions. If you make even one illusion real, there is no way to escape the rest. Who can choose to keep the ones he prefers, and find the safety that the truth alone can give? Illusions are lies. Are some lies better than others? Are some lies safer than others?


God is "good".
Only God is.
Nothing else exists.

Where then does this "evil" come from?
It cannot be coming from God's Kingdom!
Well, I'll tell you where it is coming from.
It is coming from you, as you reach beyond the Kingdom.
You see, the Kingdom is your home.
You are still there.
Your mind is reaching beyond the Kingdom.
But there is nothing beyond the Kingdom!
So, you are making things up in your imagination.
You are reaching...overreaching...with your mind!
The Kingdom is "good".
Why would you go beyond it?
It is yours, entirely!
You are the Kingdom!
You want both the Kingdom, and what is beyond.
You want your Self, and what is not you too!
Is that not insane?
So you are imagining what is evil...what is insane.
You want both the "good and the evil".
You want both!
You want to be both good and evil!
Well, you can't serve two masters.
Your mind splits, and opposes itself.
It is "a house divided against itself".
Reaching beyond the Kingdom you imagine "good and evil".
This conjures up a cosmic conflict...outside...beyond the Kingdom of God.
The world is the manifestation...the fallout...of that conflict.
It is an internal conflict of mind.
The world becomes your experience...in your own mind.
There is still nothing beyond the Kingdom.
But you have imagined there is, and made it real by pronouncing it 'the truth'.
If you look for the "good" among lies, you will be decieved.
If you look for the "evil" among lies, you will be decieved.
You must seek the truth above all...if you are to be saved from self-deceptions.

Christ!





[edit on 2-3-2009 by Christ!]

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by Christ!

 

I, too, identify with Christ.

Good luck with trying to tell these people - I have been trying to as well.

More power to you!
And GoDspeeD!

Christ!

Originally posted by Christ!
So let me ask you, by what authority did John the baptist speak?
Where is John "the baptist" in the old testament?

Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. — Malachi 3:1

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse- Malachi 4:5-6

John the Baptists birth can be interpreted as being foretold in both the Old and New Testament.

Jesus makes reference to the Elijah prophecy....

“Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 “From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force. 13 “For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 “And if you are willing to accept it,John himself is Elijah who was to come. 15 “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Peace


[edit on 2-3-2009 by HIFIGUY]

why did the Christian religions demonise the Horned God and Muslims dare to label others as infidels. Maybe because the old religion is the Truth the Way and the Light.

why did the Christian religions demonise the Horned God and Muslims dare to label others as infidels. Maybe because the old religion is the Truth the Way and the Light.

why did the Christian religions demonise the Horned God and Muslims dare to label others as infidels. Maybe because the old religion is the Truth the Way and the Light.

Originally posted by HIFIGUY

Originally posted by Christ!
So let me ask you, by what authority did John the baptist speak?
Where is John "the baptist" in the old testament?

Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. — Malachi 3:1

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse- Malachi 4:5-6

John the Baptists birth can be interpreted as being foretold in both the Old and New Testament.

Jesus makes reference to the Elijah prophecy....

“Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 “From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force. 13 “For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 “And if you are willing to accept it,John himself is Elijah who was to come. 15 “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Peace
[edit on 2-3-2009 by HIFIGUY]

These words are put in Jesus mouth.
Can the Kingdom of God suffer violence? No!
Can it be taken by force by violent men? Absolutely not!
"From John...until now"?
What does that even mean?
It's meaningless.
More evidence the scribe of this text - not Jesus - is a sensational novelist.
If you are willing to believe it, "Dave" is the reincarnation of Elijah, John, and oh...Isaiah too.
Dave shadows the downtown streets of the city i currently dwell in.
Don't try to tell Dave he is not Isaiah, Elijah, or John the Baptise.
Most likely he is.
This scribe has an agenda.

Christ!

Originally posted by Christ!
Dave shadows the downtown streets of the city i currently dwell in.
Don't try to tell Dave he is not Isaiah, Elijah, or John the Baptise.
Most likely he is.
This scribe has an agenda.

Christ!

Take heed of the words you speak, for what teacher, in his instruction does not become the student?

I have enjoyed reading some of your words. Sincerely taught, but blindly informed. I wipe my feet of this particular thread and wish you well in your travels.

Its funny you know..I was just talking to Dave today about you.

Coincidence?

Peace

Originally posted by HIFIGUY

Originally posted by Christ!
Dave shadows the downtown streets of the city i currently dwell in.
Don't try to tell Dave he is not Isaiah, Elijah, or John the Baptise.
Most likely he is.
This scribe has an agenda.

Christ!

Take heed of the words you speak, for what teacher, in his instruction does not become the student?

I have enjoyed reading some of your words. Sincerely taught, but blindly informed. I wipe my feet of this particular thread and wish you well in your travels.

Its funny you know..I was just talking to Dave today about you.

Coincidence?

Peace

The whole point with teaching is to learn.
The Teacher teaches teachers who are learning.
Jesus was a teacher of the Teacher...who became the Teacher.
For the Teacher teaches to make equals of his students.
The Teacher teaches students who they are.
The fastest way to learn is to teach as the Teacher teaches.

There is no "greater" or "least" in the Kingdom of God.
Greater and lesser are concepts manifest in "the world".
Equality is an attibute of the Kingdom...the Son being equal to the Father.
There are no "men", either greater or lesser, or male or female, or Jew or Greek...in the Kingdom.
So the viewpoint expressed by your quotations do not reflect knowledge...certainly not the knowledge Jesus had.
The scribes show themselves ignorant of the attributes of *Our Father*.
Jesus was not ignorant of the attributes of our Father, or of "the Kingdom".
So how can so many ignorant words come from Jesus?
Indeed, less than 20% of what NT scribes say is said by Jesus, is actually said by Jesus.
It's very simple to tell the difference, once you are taught by the Teacher who taught Jesus.
Scribes display their mistaken viewpoints with their words.
Look at the passages you quoted.
Look at what is in the minds of the scribes.
See that they are projecting their viewpoint of God on *Our Father* and his Son.

The question yet remains, by what authority did John the Baptist teach?

Christ!





[edit on 3-3-2009 by Christ!]

Originally posted by Christ!
Indeed, less than 20% of what NT scribes say is said by Jesus, is actually said by Jesus.

Seriously...20%? Id like to get ahold of your " everything that Jesus said " calculator. Lets see; take everything that Jesus said, and divide that by everything that he said in the Bible and you come up with 20%. Did you walk with Jesus? And even so, what man could come up with a % of what a man said? Do you see how ridiculous your logic is?

Originally posted by Christ!
The question yet remains, by what authority did John the Baptist teach?

The question was answered. He was foretold to come by the Holy Spirit.
But you see, yourself, like the Pharisees take the same stance and did not believe the Prophecy. Jesus used this position when clarifying who he was.

John 5:47
"But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

And conversely, how christ! can I believe your words without scriptural reference?

You have no premise, nor established base by which to stand.

When I read this...

Originally posted by Christ! So how can so many ignorant words come from Jesus?

Show me his ignorant words...


Peace


[edit on 3-3-2009 by HIFIGUY]