At Least One American Believed Killed by Freed Gitmo Prisoners

reply to post by SuperViking


Exactly! You have to ask "for what?" Making it my requirement to provide proof, which has already been shown above. You can not trust confessions given under torture. Test subjects gave up after 2mins. How long are these innocent people being tortured and admitting they know nothing. Continually tortured to make it so they confess to the story the terrorist who is torturing him wants him to confess to. Get it?

The real terrorist is the guard at gitmo. A decent human being would not let this happen and would try to stop it. Maybe this is why the suicides are up recently in the military. Maybe these suicides are just cover-ups of dismissed guards who have served their duty. Whats the motto???.... "We take care of our own"...

You have UN delegates calling for the ILLEGAL TORTURE to stop... They must have some proof.... Probably getting a lot of it from reading ATS. I've seen enough proof here, using links to government sites and documents that congress, hell the world recognizes that ILLEGAL TORTURE is going on there as well as other places around the world.

I can't remember for sure where I saw it but I remember seeing something like five people of all the thousands that have been detained and tortured have actually been convicted and even those have questionable evidence. Go figure. Maybe someone remembers seeing this also on MSM.

Torture doesn't work because they continue until the torturer hears what he wants from his innocent victim. They continually ask him to confess to this or that and he can't because he knows he had nothing to do with it. Eventually with the pain and NLP control anchors they set it during torture, they can change a persons perception of the world and like we've already seen on ATS, after seven years they finally have a confession from several innocent people.

Try it. Have someone do the water boarding trick on you . Only for your side of it you can't make them stop simply because you want them to. They have to continue until you agree to let them do this to a loved one of yours and you must sign a statement allowing it. How long do you think you'd last knowing that they'd take the written statement as true. Your protecting a loved one from what you perceive as OK until you actually experience the loss of concsioussness and drowning feeling. Not a nice thing to think about for your loved one, let alone yourself.

I'm not saying you deserve to be tortured, I'm saying that by your substantiation and condonation of these acts you should prepare your family for what they should expect. Let them know what they may experience should they say the wrong words....

Please do try the water boarding fun above and let us know if you feel that anything good could come out of this type of human obscenity, and whether it may change your mind depending on the duration you endure. Maybe a video would be great too... thanks.

reply to post by Alxandro


Notwithstanding my latest post, prior to this one....I actually AGREE with you, Alxandro....on a few points.

There is a great deal of hatred....and animosity....involved in these LARGELY tribal conflicts.

WHAT?? DID I just use the word 'tribal'???

YES, I did. BECAUSE this is what it is really about.....it begins in TRIBAL Afghanistan, or Pakistan, or Iran....take your pick.

ANY other Country.....go ahead, pick one!!!

Let's continue this discussion to include a Nation-State. Whether it is the USA, or Russia or France....or Poland, it matters little to the 'tribes' that are spreading the hate....does it?

THIS IS the problem!!!! It is something called 'education'.

When you allow a certain poison to be spewed, into the ears of the young, then you will reap what is sown. I don't wish to quote from the 'christian' bible here....but it is an uncomfortable truth. Regardless of your faith, this is something that happens....especially when you influence the young......

Even if they Shut Down Gitmo there are many others Just like it all over the World. Large jails in other countries and entire wings are operated by the US government holding characters just like the ones in Gitmo, that will never see a Judge or Jury.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Agreed- you place people who already hate you in a prison for years and then decide to release them after a few years, your going to have more enemies than you know what to do with. I don't understand why Obama would decide to tackle this first considering the more important issues. I don't think anyone supports letting known terrorists escape and run freely.


I don't support this at all. They've already established that Gitmo isn't as bad as its being portrayed. This decision is stupid...Frankly it enhances the danger these people pose to our nation. What benefit do we have by releasing these people?

Irresponsible.

The problem with this is that we could either keep these criminals in this place for a VERY LONG TIME until they die...

Let them out.

Or kill them.

I think they should have all been tried in court (whatever one that may be), and if convicted of whatever crimes, executed.

For those who are not convicted OR convicted on something minor, release them.

Letting them all out is obnoxious. Then again, I do not know from a first hand account on how they were treated and who has been abused by such terror tactics.

While Bush was going to drive us into the soil with no respect, at least when Obama does it countries will be applauding us!

reply to post by AceOfAces

What benefit do we have by releasing these people?

Quite a statement... How would you feel if you were being illegally held by a government and someone made a statement like that.

Nelson Mandella was imprisoned illegally for how many years and what benefit did it serve to release him. I mean he is only a human being and not some type of god. Why release him if there is no benefit to you???

Logic? Falling very short of it...

Maybe when someone you love is put into one of these places and tortured because of their views you may get the point of closing a place that has been called HELL.

They've already established that Gitmo isn't as bad as its being portrayed.

Of course maybe your loved-one will be of the same thinking as you and think its a great place and not as bad as everyone thought. I will hope that you have the ability to see this.

Rgds

reply to post by AceOfAces


AceOfAces.....

Roughly a couple hundred in Gitmo.....and suddenly you'll have 'more enemies than you know how to deal with'???

6 or 7 million Muslims in Indonesia.....they targeted Australian tourists recently, simply as convenient targets, due to the proximity.

The 'safe havens' that currently exist along the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, largely due to the failed policies of the previous US Administration....do you think there are MORE, or LESS than 200 'enemies' there???

ONE enemy that we (well, the CIA, in their ineptness) possibly created was the poor man who was swept up in the nastiness of six or seven years ago....and tortured....because he mentioned that he read an article ONLINE at 'Rolling Stone'.....written in a satyrical bent by the Food Editor, fro Christ's sake, about how to make an H-Bomb!

It was a freaking joke!!! Including, enrich uranium and put it in a bucket and swing it over your head as a makeshift centrifuge!!! THIS was the article that he read, and got tortured for!!!

Not making this crap up....just ask Dick Cheney......

what we are hearing in the news does not fully address what plans the government has for moving the detainees. My feeling is that they should be tried by our military not by our domestic courts.

reply to post by budski

reply to post by AceOfAces


Ace....well, let's try to follow your logic here, for a few minutes....

A Chicano gang-member from Los Angeles gets arrested. He/She has been tracked, or maybe not, by the Gang Task Force assigned to His/Her case.

Long story short, this person is NOW in prison. Let's say it's in the California State Penal system.

Do think, are really that naive, to believe that this person doesn't inter-act with fellow prisoners????

I mean, this person KNOWS what He/She did to get there.....they went through the system, had their day in Court....COMPARE, please, to someone who was swept up in a 'rendition' operation, who very well MAY be innocent.

About 200-plus potential 'Enemy Combatants' in Gitmo, versus thousands and thousands and thousands of Gang members ALREADY loose in the USA!!!!!!

Come on!!! Screw your head on straight!!!!

reply to post by Retseh


You release people you've held captive and tortured for years- they're bound to come back and strike you, one way or another...

releasing these terrorists is dangerous- this goes beyond ethics of setting them free...they pose a danger to the world.

reply to post by AceOfAces


Ace.....YES, we get it!!!!

The Cheney/Bush Administration did what you said....the terrible word...."torture".

It is a sad paragraph in the aspect of our Nation's History....AND, hopefully there will be full accountability, someday.

Still, the mere KNOWLEDGE of what happened has done far, far more damage than any roughly 200 individuals can do. It has propagated, for the last seven years, WELL larger than 200 people......

Saddam was hanged for his crimes.....that's all I'm sayin'.......

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Here's your proof that Bush is guilty of waterboarding.

I know it's MSNBC but it's still a good look at the facts.

Bush Guilty Of Torture

So what. KS Muhammed is a terrorist. I would torture him myself, if given the chance- real torture too, not just making him uncomfortable. As President Bush said, he was told KSM had information vital to protecting Americans.

Originally posted by AceOfAces
reply to post by Retseh

 

You release people you've held captive and tortured for years- they're bound to come back and strike you, one way or another...

releasing these terrorists is dangerous- this goes beyond ethics of setting them free...they pose a danger to the world.

I believe various European countries, as well as Australia will end up taking these fine upstanding gentlemen, grant them citizenship, and put them on the dole.

reply to post by stevegmu


Uh huh?

But, if you care to research any deeper, you'd learn that KSM gave up more vital info once he was approached in a better way....gaining his confidence and trust.

YES!! I know the gut reaction is to torture these animals, but that is an emotional choice.....and usually results in less-than-accurate results.

This nonsense has been promulgated by HollyWood. Funny, though, that even during torture, people will say whatever they think you want to hear, just to make it stop.

HollyWood has shown that the REAL way to torture someone is to watch someone they CARE about be tortured.....Hey! I'm not making this up!!!

SO.....I stand proudly in my belief that a true Hero will die first, under torture....OR, give false info just to make it stop. BUT, if someone they love is under duress.....well, Humans behave differently.

In NO WAY, NO SHAPE do I advocate this sort of behavior....it is abhorrent to me!!! But, it is what it is......nasty people exist....and some may be in the CIA.

reply to post by Retseh


i could be wrong, but how many were known, not suspected, but KNOWN terrorists/enemy combatants when they were sent to GITMO? How many became terrorists after spending years in a military prison being tortured, without any proof against them or having been charged with an actual crime, only to be released years later?
i know that some of these individuals are monsters. however, if you don't even have anything to charge someone with, why are they being held against there will & treated inhumanely?
GITMO is a propaganda coup for bin Laden, for the many who were not radical before, this only serves to corraborate what he has said about the United States, and brings more to his cause.
just a thought.

Its not just Gitmo...its home grown. This is an interesting video link.

www.informationclearinghouse.info...

Originally posted by semperfortis
reply to post by budski

 

Resentment has never been listed as "cause" for a criminal action. I would speculate not for terrorism either.

I sometimes resent my boss, I am not going to blow up his house because of it.

Let us not forget, these are NOT, I repeat, NOT domestic criminals. They are prisoners of war and enemy combatants. HUGE difference.

Semper

If they were prisoners of war then wouldn't they be accorded the rights laid down in the Third Geneva Convention? I am not sure, but I believe the US is a signatory.
Enemy combatants is a term coined to conveniently circumvent human rights by the Bush administration and subsequently upheld by the Obama administration.

[edit on 24-2-2009 by Snappahead]