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The Real Reason the Government Doesn’t Want to Bail out the Auto Makers.

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posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 02:27 PM

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
It sounds to me like the rest of the country would not be in such dire straights had they followed the example of collective bargaining for wages.

You do realize that most of the country cannot do this. There are states with laws in place that make unions useless, there are jobs that have unions with no power because they cannot strike, there are places where the companies will not allow multiple locations have the same union, etc...

Unions really only exist to make themselves richer and drive up inflation anyway. If everyone was making the same salary as the autoworkers, that amount would be worth the same at that point as if the autoworkers simply took a pay cut, due to inflation.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Why is it you feel that a handful of executives are entitled to huge earnings and the guy having to sift through the garbage deserves nothing but a pittance?

They are not, and they are being taught that lesson by the government during this bailout.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Think about people, compassion is what seperates us from the rest of the animal kingdom.

I love how you keep trying to put all this grandiose philosophies to this rather then just admit that these guys are WAY overpaid.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The UAW workers are not making to much, the rest of the country is making to little and you know, you are never going to find a fact or statistic to overcome that fact.

That is the silliest thing I have ever read.
If the salaries of everyone else came up to meet the UAW guys, then the inflation would cause it to be worth the same as if the UAW guys simply took a paycut. For example if everyone is making $1/hour and the UAW guy is making $10/hour, then we bring up the rest of the folks so everyone is making $10/hour, its the same thing as if we simply brought the UAW guy down to $1/hour...

posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 02:31 PM

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Further the auto workers are really the last of the true union workers. Many people complain well the problem is the workers make too much ang get too much.

Once again faulty thinking, they fought for and demanded a living wage from an industry making billions.

The "faulty thinking" in that is that if everyone's wages go up to that level, the prices will rise to fund the increased wages. Pay your help more, you MUST charge more for your product or service. Even though wages would be higher they would buy less. Simple really, and the reason any move towards Socialism is a move towards a two class society.

Carternomics does not work
21% Mortgage Rates would benefit us not.

The second fallacy about that is in that companies would be forced to reduce their work force. They could only raise prices so much so they would have to cut costs somehow. Which brings us to the next danger in Carternomics on top of Inflation and high interest. More unemployment, not less.

Usually the next argument is price controls. All price controls do is bankrupt the businesses and eliminate them creating less competition.

All in all the Carter method is a horror story.

You also seem unaware that the Auto Companies have been in financial trouble for years. They ARE NOT making huge profits. That is just not true. The legacy costs from the ludicrous contracts where simple assembly line workers got better pay than highly skilled workers do, have doomed them. The legalized extortion racket perpetrated by their Union had more to do with the fall of the Big Three than any other factor. No way to do an end run around that FACT.

posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 02:34 PM
I want to add that the only thing in this country more corrupt than Partisan Politicians is the Unions. They own the Democrats, lock, stock and barrel. A person would have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to see that.

posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 02:46 PM
reply to post by orderedchaos

I get the odd feeling that you don't have a vested interest in the whole auto maker thing.

posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 02:54 PM

Originally posted by Tyr Sog
So what you're continuing to cry about here in this thread is if you want to make more then a line worker, choose to get a higher education in something other then these fields above?

The point is about you, sir...
What makes you feel that you are entitled to make more then those folks, you are the one asking them to bail your highly overpaid job out!

Originally posted by Tyr Sog
Fact remains you can't base pay off of education. There's some fields that take 4yrs of college that pay absolutly nothing. On the flipside there's plenty of career fields that take no college that pay excellent.

That is fine, as long as those industries that are highly overpaying their personnel, are not asking to suck from the public pocket. Maybe rather then ask for public money, these companies which wish to act like they have such deep pockets, need to reconsider how much they are are wasting on overhead including salaries. My god, this is basic finances, no wonder you all are in trouble.

Originally posted by Tyr Sog
I find it funny that the ones pointing fingers about entitlements are the biggest offenders of what they think they are entitled to and what their own self worth is. It's usually that guy with that 30yr, $1500/month, college loan who can't find a job and is now serving construction workers their Caramel Macchiato in the morning.

I assume you are trying in vain to turn this around on me again.
Your little snip does not in anyway describe my situation, and thus is pointless.

Instead what you are doing is picking on the average American who you are asking for help with your little tin cup in hand. Please feel free to make these kind of remarks when your company is making it on its own steam, but it is unfortunately not. You are expecting us to pay your overpriced salary, and you continue on like its business as usual.

The same way that you stated that people can choose their vocations applies right back to you. I don't have to worry about losing my job ATM because I chose to work in a field that does pay a “fair days wage for a fair days work” and thus my vocation is not begging at the side of the road for peoples money. Long after cars no longer exist we will still need rescue personnel, health care workers, and law enforcement. Why should we send good money into a dying industry, simply to prolong its painful death dance? Just so you can have a job? Heck if you are going to live on taxpayer money why not go on social services, as that is really all this ends up being. You guys want social services but at the wages you are accustomed to receiving.

posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 02:58 PM
I fail to see how the Autos ran up the deficit or made IOU's to the American people in the form of fascist programs like Social Security and the War on drugs. I fail to see how they are responsible for misspent money on Wall st and overspent politicians trying to cover up their involvement by blaming everyone but themselves. We have something like 40 trillion in unfunded liabilities, we have been encouraged to not have kids and to not buy things like booze or cigarettes, yet they complain they don't have enough tax revenue, yet they demand ever more, that actually seems to be the job they do, demand more money from citizens as if the citizens owe them money. Nobody owes them a dime, and as soon as China figures that they are not getting paid, say goodbye to the USA dollar. They will destroy this country by blaming everyone but themselves and their stimulus tax burdens. They are demanding more money, when in fact they owe us trillions, something appears backwards here, they are not in a position to make demands, so they also want to disarm us, they are being fascists, they are merging business and state and then blaming business for the theft they have plundered.

Wake up America, we appear to have a great deal of effort being made by people to cover up their crimes of the past 25 years, should we allow them to escape from the jaws of defeat? The idea of large government has failed and now they are trying to make it impossible for anyone to know this or even ask the right questions. Put the brakes on these government pirates before it maybe too late, we have to hold them accountable.

posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 03:20 PM
bail ut the car industries is useless.. the better give the money to the peopple zo they can buy cars..if they like..
why pump money in the car manufactories so they keep on producing cars nobody would buy......
waist of money...

posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 03:52 PM
I Really do believe they ( Elite Illuminati etc ) want to destroy 90 % of world population. This won't happen in one blast. They have created a lot of instability in Europe and also my country the Netherlands. For example the huge amount of people invited to come to Europe. Mainly Moslims and Africans. Cultures that clashed with for example my culture, habbits and believes. This is happening on a daily basis in my country. 85% Of criminal behavior comes from Moslims and AFricans. I believe that the migration of those cultures to Europe has been on purpose. This is to destabalize Europe on the long run and for the coming wars. Racism in Europe is coming up fast en strong now. Its everywhere , also amongst the different immigrants in the Netherlands and the rest of Europe. What better way to destroy large societys by letting them collapse? By al sorts of crisisses. At crucial points before the big chaos the ELite wil leave there countries to wherever they made appointments long before the time of the created chaos. The rest is pure horror. Riots, killings, rapings, hunger and misery never seen by mankind wil be reality. Its the end of the world as we know it. But the Illuminati wil know what to do. There plans wil work fine on the long run. I believe there plans are well structured on every part of the new world order wich is not here yet butt wil be implemented after their time plan is on schedule. This could take 5, 10 or maybe thirty years. The genetics vault in Svalbard is secure. the earth axe is tilting when most of the ice melts away. Death wil come in many ways. Suppose 80 % of humans wil die , the rest wil be an millitary operation worked out by the Illuminatis army. Nature wil play a big part in there plan to take over the world. the illuminati and their slaves wil be save somehow somewhere and nature wil once again make the world green and blue. Plantlife an small animal life wil take over the streets. The few groups of people left can easely be destroyed by man made viruses, deseases or be killed or captured by the illuminaties army. I also believe that the Illuminati have technology not yet known by ordinairy people at this moment. And when i consider also the ALien factor as a big player in the coming chaos things might even be more strange than science fiction. I am afraid that the destruction of 90% of living people wil be of unbelievable mathematical precision. No god wil come to help us. If there is an Alien scenario thinhgs micht be even more horrific. More or less the way like we treat animals for food we could be like that for ALiens. Excuse me for my bad English.

posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 04:16 PM

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
....It makes little sense to let what had been a profitable industry prior to the lending crisis and the economic meltdown....

Let me stop you right there. Detroit was hardly a "Profitable Industry Prior to the Lending Crisis". They in fact had a major loss of Profit, and one of the reasons was due to their lack of ingenuity. Whereas Toyota, Nissan, and other Japanese Auto manufacturers could build One or Two Prototypes before Full Line Manufacturing, the U.S. Automakers were going through anywhere from Seven to Ten Prototype Models in order to attain a Production Model. This lead towards Major Delays, Cost Overruns, and so forth. (BTW, I LOVE Anything Made in America, and I long for the day when we finally get back to Producing Our Own Goods. I am not bashing Detroit, only their lag behind Japan. Japan is an Amazing Auto Manufacturer, and American Auto Makers could seriously learn a thing or two from them).

Propping up the banks, insurers and financial service industries that employ far less people, and produce nothing of real value at a cost of several times what the Auto Makers were hoping for makes little sense on the surface either. Unless you are inclined to suspect it’s the organized theft of the treasury as I do by the powers that be.

I completely agree that if Wall Street was afforded a Bail Out, as well as Corrupt, Greedy, Conniving CEOs/Board Members of Various Corporations, then Detroit should also be "Bailed Out". They deserve as much of that moolah as any of the others who received it (And ALREADY Wasted IT!).

posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 04:41 PM

Originally posted by defcon5

What makes you feel that you are entitled to make more then those folks, you are the one asking them to bail your highly overpaid job out!

I never said I worked for the auto industry.

Originally posted by defcon5

That is fine, as long as those industries that are highly overpaying their personnel, are not asking to suck from the public pocket. Maybe rather then ask for public money, these companies which wish to act like they have such deep pockets, need to reconsider how much they are are wasting on overhead including salaries. My god, this is basic finances, no wonder you all are in trouble.

This is where your argument fails miserably. This was a loan, not a bail out. History has shown loans to the auto industry work. Chrysler was loaned money back in the late 70's, repaid the loan back and DC made out on it. I don't find a $18billion loan to be that significant considering that trillions have been stolen from us and that our auto industry is at a end of a era. Which desperatly needs to be overhauled. The loan from the government had to happen because unlike what Ford did a few years back, GM and Chrysler would be hard pressed to get a loan through a bank during these economical times. The only other business with the ability to shell out this kind of money would be the government.

This is common in other world governments and their industries. Do you even know how much money the Japenese government has given to their auto industry sector over the decades? It's Japans business model to help out their industries.

Aside from that IMO this messely $18billion(out of trillions) is about as close as middle class America is going to get to benefit from this money stolen from us. At least this keeps a large base of middle America working and stops what would be a devastating domino effect on the entire country. It may just be a bandaid, it may not be but well worth the 18bill risk.

Originally posted by defcon5
You are expecting us to pay your overpriced salary, and you continue on like its business as usual.

Again, i'm not a auto worker or even a UAW worker.

Originally posted by defcon5
The same way that you stated that people can choose their vocations applies right back to you. I don't have to worry about losing my job ATM because I chose to work in a field that does pay a “fair days wage for a fair days work” and thus my vocation is not begging at the side of the road for peoples money. Long after cars no longer exist we will still need rescue personnel, health care workers, and law enforcement. Why should we send good money into a dying industry, simply to prolong its painful death dance? Just so you can have a job? Heck if you are going to live on taxpayer money why not go on social services, as that is really all this ends up being. You guys want social services but at the wages you are accustomed to receiving.

I'm glad to hear you picked a secure field to work in. Maybe not so secure if the big 3 go down and all of their insured workers go with it but no need to worry about that just yet.

I just find it funny and sad that you actually envy, despise, hold resentment towards, etc, etc towards a line worker because of their salary. That's pretty petty.

Anyways, for me, I wouldn't do their job for $50-70 grand/yr. To hit those marks most line workers are working 12hrs/day, 6days/week. For what, to get home and S-S-Shave, eat and go to bed? Look forward to Sunday only? No thanks, they can have that crap work and they earn every bit of their decent wage(although most arn't making that any more or working those kind of hours anymore).

posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 05:26 PM

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
we just might end up saving this crazy rock we live on.

What an arrogant remark, like the world is going to end if the auto companies fail, just how out of touch with reality are you guys?

Just the fact that I posted this:

making more then these folks make:
(based on averages from salary sites: )
RN: $55K to $65K
Paramedic: $30K to $45K
Police Officer: $40 to $60K
Fire Department: $30K to $50K
Teacher: $40k to $60K

Compared to:
Automotive Assembly Line Worker: $55K to $70K
Automotive Engineer: $60K to $90K

Yep that sounds about right.

And these guys don't see anything wrong with this should tell the American public EXACTLY why a bailout won't work. These guys perception of a “Fair days wages for a Fair days work” are THAT far out of alignment with the rest of the country. You bail them out, you'll be bailing them out again and again. They have gotten to where they don't even realize how askew from reality that their salaries are compared to everyone else, and they are entitled to that via osmosis or something. GM itself apologized to the consumers for the crap product that they have foisted on the public, yet the employees feel that there was nothing wrong with this and are in here defending that product.


I agree that the US automaker should not be bailed out as long as the bank bailouts stop, and the banks give back all the bailout money they were given and all the loot they and their overpaid execs have in offshore accounts as well.

posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 05:45 PM
Great thread - star & flag from me - also enjoyed the many intelligent replies & debates.

Perhaps the NWO, er, the govt knows they don't have to bail out the US auto makers because world wars has always been extreamly profitable to this industry. They know what's coming and perhaps see it as an issue that will resolve itself in the coming years. Govt wants to create jobs, jobs, jobs and world wars have always provided the ultimate stimulas package.

My dad, rip, got on at GM right after WWII with a 9th grade education. He had to quit school to help support his large family of brother and sisters in the depression. It enabled him to achieve his version of the American Dream. He met my mom there, married her and little 2 yr old me, gave us a house, two cars, a vacation cottage, a private high school education for me, a 1980 pontiac trans am for me (dang I miss that car - it was beautiful even tho it seemed it was always in the shop) and I got a college education.

My dad was always "Be American, Buy American" he abhored China and those 'damn japs' (his words.) He died in 1990 and I often wonder what he would think about todays world situation. I've also been waiting for his ghost to haunt me as I own two Mitsubishis. Neither the 1997 or the 2004 have been in the shop once. My grandpa was the first to buy a non US car and my dad didn't speak to him for a year

posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 06:19 PM
i am replying to the orig post after reading the whole thread! i found your post to be what is i think is a very good question and also a good reason for the slow response for assistance to auto co. i am an autoworker! i eat it, i sleep it , ever present and sometimes wish it not so but it's in the blood so deep you wouldn't hate. i wish i had a union job at gm, ford or crysler i am not uaw or teamsters or cia nor fia or any other acrynom! i must say though that the unions raised the non union wages and we don't make # for wage,drive $100.00 dollar junkers made by detroit with well over 115,000 mile the second time over and find the most ignorant replyies to the cause being us autoworkers. f off to any body that thinks this! you state this pretty well except name it! greed?power?control?all the above! all together it's called bankrupting the american republic into submission to the will of the nwo! some of the posts in reply to your post show some people are ignorant to what is going on and show no depth of thinking just a quick reply and go about their day! by the way i served an apprenticeship in tool,die and molds. the plastics industry in st clair county michigan is all but gone to some place else! literally our life blood! i am also fifty and building automation weld lines,a new trade for me? not for long i hope tho i like logic and automation! i'm just grateful to be working and to be able to learn something new to me and yet so dangerous! thanks original poster!wake the people up you seem to have a good head on your shoulders!

posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 07:46 PM
Bailing out the auto makers...or bailing out the hedge funds?

For example, Cerberus Capitol's; Cerberus 4 hedge fund owns Chrysler, and is the majority shareholder in GMAC.

Not to mention that Cerberus ceo Stephen Feinberg understudied with convicted felon Michael Milken.

Embroiled in the Madoff scandal, Ezra Merkin, founder of Ascot Partners hedge fund, just stepped down as chairman of GMAC, so that GMAC might also qualify to feed at the taxpayer trough.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
One word Fiat!

Which is why Chrysler/Cerberus, just offered Fiat a 35% stake in the company. In addition to the 4BB Chrysler/Cerberus has already received, this partnership (part of a business plan written by Cerberus), is designed to qualify Chrysler/Cerberus, for an additional $3 billion in federal taxpayer bailout money.

Though not well publicized, I think there are valid reasons, aside from corporate hubris and poor management, that account congressional skepticism.

Fiat Acquires 35% Stake in Chrysler

Madoff-tainted Merkin out at GMAC, Cerberus CFO to join board

posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 09:04 PM
I guess I just figured they just wanted to break one of the biggest labor unions in the country.

posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 09:18 PM

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Flighty

More jobs that will go overseas and the locals won't have a slice of that future pie.

I agree it is madness. It is hard to believe law makers don't comprehend all the jobs attached to auto motive manufacturing.

Thanks for the post!

They have researchers who tell them how many jobs are associated,
and the car lobby tells them too and may even pad the numbers a bit.

The real issue is they are following ppls plans who pay them more
under the table than we do over the table.

So as long as the congress critters keep having nice gifts show up
at their house and all they get is a verbal request for something
to be done it goes unreported and untraced.

I cannot even imagine how much cash and small valuable gifts
find their way to them with no way to trace it back to the source.

The only way I see to end it is to require brain finger printing tech
be used to verify they are not crooked, but that would not be allowed.

Brain Fingerprinting

The tech is so much more accurate than a polygraph they have
released ppl from prison in some states due to the fact they did
not have memories associated with the crime.

posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 10:18 PM
personally I don't think any of them (banks, car makers, whoever) should get the bailout money, I don't think homeowners who gambled with their homes should be getting a break either. We all know that something isn't right here. Something smells funny and it isn't the elephant in the room. What it comes down to is somebody is getting paid and this person/group of people whoever they are and whatever they do have the leverage to get the President and the Congress (both President Bush and Obama) to go along with it. Where is this money going to and more importantly where is it coming from? Last time I checked before the first bailout we didn't have the money to do this or the assets to back it. All things considered they have us in such a panic, but the economy isn't as bad as it could be. The numbers are about the same as when Clinton was leaving office (about a year before he left). I know its getting worse but its not to the early 1990's standard yet or the early 1980's/late 1970's during the carter years and first two of the Regan years. We need to stop fighting about why they should or shouldn't get the bailouts. We need to stick together and stop speculating about this and find somebody who can give us the answers we deserve. Last time I checked our Constitution was the law of the land and it says the government is made up for the people by the people and last time I checked we are all people. So all this secret deals and closed door meetings are contrary to our interest. The government is our servant not the other way around and quite frankly we need to take the power back. Some supporters of Obama feel that Bush was bought and paid for by Saudi's the same way Clinton was bought and paid for by the Chinese. The question is who is Obama bought and paid for by? If you say nobody then you are full of it and I'm afraid you will be disappointed. Us the people of the United States need to get by our petty bickering about the economy and how to save the planet and save the animals and whatnot and in one voice stand up and say "There will be no shelter here until you tell us: where is our money going? why are you doing what you are doing? and finally us people of the United States have a need to know what the real situation is and you better darn well tell us or your out of a job one way or another" Once we get that then we need to change the rules in such a way that congress works for us instead of the evil big businesses. They need to not allowed to be on the board or own any stock in any company while they are serving in congress(Conflict of interest), no lobbyist(leads to corruption), and none of these John Kerry type vacations that are paid for by foreign interests where he meets with foreign leaders "on the ski slopes in the Alps"(leads to corruption and a conflict of interests). The people who get appointed to high positions should be checked out before their name is mentioned and shouldn't have any conflict of interest issues (like being a lobbyist for a firm that works in the industry that the appointed post is for). Also getting elected shouldn't be a free ticket to getting rich and any raises should be put to a public vote during the election process.

Like Rage against the Machine said its time "we take the power back". We need to end this Politically Correct BS and using the excuse of "its for the Children"

[edit on 7-2-2009 by 31337]

[edit on 7-2-2009 by 31337]

posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 11:53 PM
reply to post by defcon5

A better question is... Do I feel that the people listed above contribute to society, and do autoworkers deserve to have better pay or benefits then they do? The fact that I even have to explain this to you is freighting to me. Its nice to see that the greed in these places has gotten that much farther out of whack.

I believe that your ire is misdirected. Perhaps the REAL question you should be asking is "Why do police, nurses, teachers, and others make so little?" A nation needs all types of workers, and I believe that any work is honorable, and that every human being that works contributes to society. Furthermore, to stereotype auto workers the way you have is wrong. Like you, before becoming a professor in later life, I worked as a contractor, and had clients in government, industry (including Chrysler), and international organizations. I found that workers in all of these organizations had work ethics that ran the entire spectrum from highly motivated to quite unmotivated. However, I also saw contractors who were being paid to be "experts" for a company, who were nothing more than OTJ trainees, who were charging companies over $100 per hour to learn, at the company's expense. No company or industry has a monopoly on the characteristics that you describe.
The reasons to not allow the American auto industry to fail are numerous. I won't repeat them here, because many people contributed to the thread I mentioned further up on this thread.
Furthermore, to criticize American workers who are just trying to feed their family and produce a product, is to fall into the trap that TPTB want- namely to turn worker against worker, Democrat against Republican, rich against poor.

posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 12:55 AM
As I read through the thread a few significant things keep popping up I would like to touch a bit deeper on.

First and foremost is my own belief as a friend I always want to help other friends up if they are down.

What is down? Down doesn’t necessarily mean on their luck. In a competitive world based on numbers, down is just less than someone else that has more. You would like to make 35,000 instead of 25,000 or have 3 bedrooms instead of 2, or 4 doors instead of 2, or a 2008 model instead of a 1991. We live in a competitive world where most people always would like to have more.

More and more people do not have enough. They have 6 people crammed in to the 2 bedrooms, and the 25,000 does not feed or cloth them very well and offers them scant recreation and leisure opportunities. They climb in over the back seat of that old car because it gets them there but they sure could use the convenience of 4 doors, and occasional mechanical breakdowns of an old car create unforeseen expenses that because things are so tight and transportation so vital creates a real emergency when that costly repair happens unexpectedly.

They aren’t starving, they are healthy and clean, and happy enough for all the hardships but they are down. Down on the bottom rung of society, where they work every day at an honest job with an honest effort, and most of life revolves just around that effort because even though they are free and live in a free society, most everything costs money and well, they just don’t have much.

Everyone knows people in this situation. Many people are in this situation. Far too many people are in this situation. The wealth that the planet can actually produce and does is more than abundant enough to provide better for them. Yet they and so many others are not cared for at all.

Yes there are some big businesses on the verge of collapse right now and many small mom and pop, single store location businesses are struggling too. Yet these people and a majority of people work for corporations that are sound and very profitable. They work for businesses that rake in millions annually in profits sometimes billions. Yet the majority of those abundant profits are kept and horded by just a privileged few, who own and run that corporation that might employ thousands to even millions of people.

These corporations could afford to pay a lot more in the form of wages to their employees but they choose not to in order to for the sake of numbers, competition, vanity, and greed, to compensate their employees just as little as they have to and still keep them productive and performing their work adequately.

Some workers have chosen not to do that. They formed unions most of those unions were formed in the beginning of the last century. In part to improve safety and working conditions and in part to increase wages and quality of life, as the Elite were even less conscientious then they were forced to become through work stoppages, strikes, picket lines to force boycotts of the business and occasionally even deadly violence.

Naturally the elite did not like this. It cut into their profits and it cut into their control of the masses. You see any dominant personality or leader will tell you that you can not control people, but you can control their environment. The less disposable income a person has the less they can do in life, the less they can compete on that same scale that a few exceed at to become elite.

The idea that many have that the auto workers are overpaid and should make significant wage concessions to lower themselves to be on par with unorganized labor and to lower their own quality of life along with it is pushing or pulling someone down.

It is saying, you should not have these things granted to you for your work, you really only deserve this. You are screwing up everything by receiving just a little too much.

A little too much, let me repeat that one more time a little too much.

Mean while the owners and major share holders who basically labor at nothing are being paid way, way, way, way, way too much.

Who convinces other people that the person who is making a little too much should be making less, less like everyone else?

The people who make way, way, way, way too much convince other people of this.

They say if everyone was paid on a scale of the person who makes a little too much then there would be inflation. Prices would have to go up. You really wouldn’t becoming ahead you would end up loosing!

They convince you that person making a little too much is jeopardizing the security of the people who make barely enough. That each person who then in turn that is added to the makes a little too much pay scale, makes your rung on the ladder less secure.

You could loose something. Loose something because of people who make a little too much.

They actually turn the people on the lower rungs on the ladder against each other with this insane argument based on a hypothesis that they pitch and sell of inflation eroding the buying power of wages.

Microsoft has made billions upon billions upon billions of dollars. Most of it now out of circulation in the economy. No one can spend that money to STIMULATE the economy. Exxon has made billions upon billions upon billions of dollars. Most of it now out of circulation in the economy. No one can spend that money to STIMULATE the economy. Wal-Mart has made billions upon billions upon billions of dollars. Most of it now out of circulation in the economy. Why are all these billions of dollars out of circulation in the economy? Because that wealth is concentrated in the hands of a very small group of individuals who simply have no need imagined or real to spend it all, so how did they earn it all? By paying people too little, it is just that simple. By not sharing it is that simple.

...continued below...

posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 12:56 AM
continued from above...

Paying people doesn’t cause inflation. Maximizing profits by not paying people a fair wage and then forcing them to borrow to supplement and enhance their lifestyles is what creates inflation. Not only are the people paid too little but too much of what they are paid then is paid in interest to borrow that relative pittance for a reasonable and justifiable quality of life. People are barely cognizant that between taxation and interest close to 50% of what they do earn goes right back to the elite that paid them too little to start with forcing them to live in that cycle of you must borrow to have what is necessary for life today and work for these low wages and pay it back tomorrow.

I am here to tell you that is what’s called ENDENTURED SERVITUDE and was outlawed in this country a few centuries ago.

Guess again. Most people are in fact indentured servants who are afraid to quit or loose a low paying job for fear that they will fall behind on their credit payments.


They are trained to pay their Masters on time or risk being cut off from this vital source of money often required for household emergencies, major purchases and day to day survival expenses on occasion.

They fear loosing that security.

Fear and security two words that really don’t go well together, because people who don’t fear are secure, while people who do fear are not, and what the elite are very good at is teaching the masses to live in fear.

That is what the War on Terror is all about in this country. Terrorism by definition is the utilization of fear and psychological harm for political reasons.

You are taught to fear everything in this world. You should fear loosing your job, you should fear loosing your credit rating, you should fear foreigners, you should fear those of different religions, you should fear those of different skin color, and you should fear those that make a little too much. Those people who make a little too much are really what is screwing up everything.

You are taught to believe it is the people who are making a little too much are what is jeopardizing you, not the people who not just make but then keep and horde, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, too much.

You are taught to decry and despise those people who make a little too much, you are even taught to believe that if those people who make a little too much are blamed for a bad economy that not only should they make less, but that you too might need in order too keep anything at all accept making a little less now too. Many people will accept making a little less now too in order to not loose that job or credit rating.

Now all of a sudden everyone is making too little to buy things and keep the economy going.

Hey lets not pay people more. Let’s not cut the profits of people who make way, way, way, and way to much. Let’s make the people who make too little borrow a big chunk of the dollars they have been taxed and give back a little of that too them so they can spend a little money and that will help the economy.

Do you people not get the fewer than a 2,500 people have 95% of the world’s wealth horded?

That now they want to pay you so little that not only do you have to borrow individually to survive, you have to borrow collectively to survive?

That is just absolutely madness. A madness many people know is real, many people suspect is real, many people suspect is real but because it is such insanity skeptically try to dismiss that could possibly be the problem.

They scream out ignorantly and thoroughly deceived for their unknown and unrecognized Masters…he is the problem, she is the problem, they are making a little too much.

Really some of you die hard skeptics out there are in fact a little too much.

The elites have chosen to destroy the unions they fought long and hard to make sure would never be created.

For the sake of humanity I beg those of you who think auto workers or any worker makes too much to realize once and for all THE MASSES ARE PAID TOO LITTLE.

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