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The Hierarchy of Masons

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posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 11:42 PM
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So... you're not here to learn or have a even conversation but to throw around some baseless insults then, and ignore people's point of view then?

Correct me if I'm wrong, of course.




posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 02:48 PM
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I was told when i was raised to the high and sublime degree the Master Mason was the top.

I knew of all these other degrees but never joined as it was more nights out the house.

My dad is in the Royal Arch, Perceptory, Knights of Malta, Ark Mariner and the Secret Monitor i think.

The structure doesnt tell how many degrees each order has and what the side orders or criptic orders are can someone explain to me please.

Also their is a charity degree conferred in Scotland called the cork degree i dont think it's an official degree more of a fun thing, does this happen in the states as well.

Their is also a group who have a monthly meeting called the corporation of squaremen and the temple is called a shed im sure, is this worldwide as well.

[edit on 8-2-2009 by orangeman dave]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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Nah, I won't debate any further. I'm done with the thread.


However, I do wan't to see what the explanation is for the BC having a twisted ritual utilizing the Masonic *rites*. Excuse me, I do tend to post inebriated on the board from time to time.


Anyways, why do the Bohemian Club members chant off some of the Scottish Rite?

Wait, before you continue, is it because it's a lie? Even though there is video footage and audio of them in the act?




posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by Revolution-2012
Anyways, why do the Bohemian Club members chant off some of the Scottish Rite?
Wait, before you continue, is it because it's a lie? Even though there is video footage and audio of them in the act?


"In the act" of WHAT? Sober up and explain what you're talking about and perhaps someone here will know the answer. (Or do you actually WANT an answer?)

What does "chant off" mean? What does chanting have to do with the Scottish Rite? You DO know there's really nothing "Scottish" about the Scottish Rite, right?
Seriously, it's a conglomeration of degrees mostly of French and German origin and quite honestly, mostly made-up.

At any rate, there may be some BC members who are Masons, but the BC isn't Masonic...nor do they "chant off" something . . . anything. That really makes no sense at all.

Like I said; clarify. Be specific. Ask an actual question and someone may be able to clear it up for you.

In fact, you've confused ME so much with this "chant off the S.R." bit that I think I'LL have a drink.

Hmmm. Novel idea!


[edit on 8-2-2009 by senrak]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by senrak


The Bohemian Club is a prominent private club in San Francisco, California, USA.

Its clubhouse is located at 624 Taylor Street in San Francisco. Today, the club has a diverse membership of many prominent local and global leaders, ranging from artists and musicians to leading businessmen. Founded in 1872, it was modeled on New York's prominent Century Club.









Founder of the Illuminati, High Ranking Mason.


Medieval stonemasons, not unlike other tradesmen, sought to protect their interests through the formation of guilds which attempted to monopolize the knowledge of their skills. Masons were frequently employed together in large groups and, as building projects tend not to last indefinitely, often lived itinerant and independent lives. Members of the craft used secret signs, handshakes, etc. to identify themselves when traveling from one area to another -- and solemn oaths were taken by entering members to preserve secrecy.

Due to the unique social function of the lodges of Freemasons (drinking, feasting, conversation, gaming and ceremony) they attracted the attention of so many other people that by the early eighteenth century many lodges had been founded which contained few or even no professional stonemasons at all. (Casanova wrote that a well-born young man who wished to travel and see the world without being excluded from the pleasures of his social equals ought to be initiated a freemason.)

The formation of Grand Lodge in London in 1717 (presided-over by elected "Grand Masters") laid the foundation for English Freemasonry. There were three degrees of initiation: Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft and Master Mason, each with its own authority, ceremony and revealed secrets. "Scottish Masonry", which thrived in quasi-independent lodges all over Europe, added many additional degrees.






Weishaupt joined the Freemasons in 1774, but quickly became disillusioned and dropped-out. On the first of May, 1776, Weishaupt founded a secret Order of Illuminati (built on the base of a secret student society) consisting of 5 members who were devoted to promoting equality & rationality, primarily through study. By 1779 there were colonies of the Order in five Bavarian cities, the secret library contained much contraband literature and membership numbered 54. Members were all considered Initiates, and they were to be brought slowly to higher grades of knowledge by first reading the classical moralists, and only eventually the rationalists & materialists. Activities of the Order were conducted under assumed names (Weishaupt called himself "Spartacus") and only the highest Initiates could learn of the Secret Directors (the "Areopagus") who knew the founder's identity and the true history & aims of the Order.

In 1777 Weishaupt had re-entered the Freemasons in hopes of gaining useful lore for his own Order -- and in hopes of tapping-off new members. Whether by original design or evolved purpose, the idea was conceived to for Illuminati members to penetrate the highest Masonic grades to take control of the Lodges. In this way, Masons receptive to Illuminati ideas could be initiated into the highest Orders and less receptive members left to the lower Orders -- and subjected to more dilute truths & convenient fabrications.


Source: www.benbest.com...


Johann Adam Weishaupt (February 6, 1748 in Ingolstadt – November 18, 1830[1][2][3][4][5][6] in Gotha) was a German philosopher and founder of the Order of Illuminati, a secret society with origins in Bavaria.

Source: en.wikipedia.org...

Anyone who thinks the Illuminati isn't real, is ignorant. There is no tangible proof for what it's purpose is, but it does exist. Anyone who says that the Mason's don't have a connection to the Illuminati, are not looking in the right places and refuse to believe the truth.

As far as why the people attending BC at Bohemian Grove, CA we're chanting masonic fashions, I do not know. They we're.

I'm not saying that you are a bad person for being a mason, however, I don't know if you know more than you release to ATS, and I don't know if you are just another person attending a fraternity. However I do know that the Illuminati and Masons have a distinct connection, and yes it could of very well diminished their reputation however I believe the Mason's are secretive, just because you say you'll answer any question I have then I ask something about the secrecy behind Masonry and you say there isn't any, DOES NOT MEAN THAT THERE ISN'T ANY.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 06:36 PM
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We know what the Bohemian Club is for christ's sake.

What does this have to do with Masonry?



Originally posted by Revolution-2012
Anyone who thinks the Illuminati isn't real, is ignorant. There is no tangible proof for what it's purpose is, but it does exist.


So far YOU'RE the only one in this thread whose said it. None of the Masons have said it. What's ignorant about that?




Anyone who says that the Mason's don't have a connection to the Illuminati, are not looking in the right places and refuse to believe the truth.


You SAY that, but where's the proof? The burden of proof is on YOU, not us. How do KNOW? Areyou a member of the Illuminati? Are you a Mason? Have you EVER met a member of the Illuminati? (particularly one who said "Hey, I'm a Mason too!") ? ? ? Well???


As far as why the people attending BC at Bohemian Grove, CA we're chanting masonic fashions, I do not know. They we're.


What the hell does "chanting Masonic fashions" mean? We don't chant. Where did you hear this? Besides, if we DID chant (which we don't) and you aren't a Mason (which you obviously aren't) how would you KNOW? Because someone TOLD you? Sorry...I ain't buyin' it. We don't chant.

Heck, the Catholic Church chants some of the Mass, as does the Anglican Church. Does that make them Masons? or BC?



I'm not saying that you are a bad person for being a mason,


Yet, you said you "despise" me...because I'm a Mason. That doesn't make sense. ya' know?



however, I don't know if you know more than you release to ATS, and I don't know if you are just another person attending a fraternity.


I'll give you that one. You don't know....


However I do know that the Illuminati and Masons have a distinct connection,


[yawn] OK, once again...how do you KNOW? Because someone TOLD you? You believe everything you read or hear?

ARE YOU A MASON? Are you ILLUMINATI? If not, HOW DO YOU KNOW?



and yes it could of very well diminished their reputation


Why? How? Let's take a different route. What exactly do the Illuminati do? Are they evil? If so, how?

I would submit to you that you really don't know anything ABOUT the so-called Illuminati, but you've read some silly-assed website that SAID they're bad so you believe it. I could be wrong, but it's not likely.



however I believe the Mason's are secretive,


No one said we weren't. Just because we have secrets doesn't make us bad. Lots of people have secrets. Doesn't make 'em bad.


just because you say you'll answer any question I have then I ask something about the secrecy behind Masonry and you say there isn't any, DOES NOT MEAN THAT THERE ISN'T ANY.


When and where did anyone say there wasn't any secret? In fact, see above. I just SAID there's a secret. I'll be glad to tell you the Masonic secret, as a matter of fact. But you won't understand it. That, I promise.

I think you've googled-up some websites and read some of the tripe posted about Masons here at ATS and have drawn a conclusion without seeing both parts. Too bad for you. But you aren't alone.


Have a nice evening. My fingers are tired and there's a nice glass of Merlot calling.

Be well.

[edit for spelling]

[edit on 8-2-2009 by senrak]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by senrak
 


The founder of the Illuminati was a mason. Is that enough for you?




posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by Revolution-2012
reply to post by senrak
 


The founder of the Illuminati was a mason. Is that enough for you?



Of course not.

The founder of my old college fraternity was a Mason. Doesn't make it "Masonic" The founder of the Lions Club was a Mason, but the Lions Club isn't a Masonic organization.

Colonel Sanders was a Mason. Does that make Kentucky Fried Chicken "Masonic"? I sure hope not.

Lots of "FOUNDERS" were Masons. What of it? Your logic is illogical, the "smiley face" notwithstanding.

If you believe that just because someone who starts an organization is a member of another organization, it makes the two "connected" you'll believe most anything I suppose.

I have NO clue how this thread has come this far since your having posted a picture depicting the degrees of Masonry, since you have an obvious ulterior motive behind it, but let's ask this: Where are the Illuminati and the BC on that chart you posted?

Must not be a very accurate chart, if they're a part of us, huh?


But that's OK. Have fun in your world.


[edit on 8-2-2009 by senrak]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 07:11 PM
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I want my 10 minutes back. The only time that video mentions Masonry is to say "...mixed with Masonic rites from Scotland" without any specificity. There's nothing remotely Masonic in the footage presented. And the narrator won't claim what exactly he thinks is Masonic. It's a worthless and baseless association he's making. He could just as easily tack on "and Burger King" and it would be just as meaningful.


Anyone who thinks the Illuminati isn't real, is ignorant. There is no tangible proof for what it's purpose is, but it does exist. Anyone who says that the Mason's don't have a connection to the Illuminati, are not looking in the right places and refuse to believe the truth.
Actually, there's no tangible proof it still exists. Period. Nobody denies that the CFR, the Bilderburgs, the Bohemians, the Trilateral Commission are all still active and doing something. But there's not a shred of evidence it has anything to do with what Weishaupt started 200 years ago. Sorry to burst your bubble.


As far as why the people attending BC at Bohemian Grove, CA we're chanting masonic fashions, I do not know. They we're.
No, they weren't. The only thing that could be remotely associated with "Masonic chanting" is "So mote it be", like saying "Amen" at the end of a prayer, or when we, as one voice, say the pledge of allegiance to the flag at the beginning of a meeting. This idea you have concerning Masonic chant is unfounded by the evidence you've shown so far. If you have something with any credibility, I'd be happy to look at it, but so far, no dice.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


What better way to have a secret organization than to have the masses think it doesn't exist?

It was created, founded, and one of the Illuminati's initial goals was to use masons as means to form a ultimate secret society, just because you're a member of a masonic fraternity doesn't mean that you know it isn't or could be part of a secret society.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton
Sorry to burst your bubble.



Yeah, I'd of thought by this point you would of called me ignorant, close-minded or ludacris, but none of which has appeared. So therefore I will rationalize, and make it very simple to you.

None of you can convince me, and hopefully no other conspiracy theorist that there isn't a Illuminati, and that the Mason's have nothing to do with the illuminati, and you sure as the hell won't convince me that the Rockefellers and all those clowns don't have something to do with the Illuminati because their heritages go back to the day and long before of when the Illuminati was founded, and surprisingly enough most of them admit to being part of a Masonic Fraternity, and at the same time they have their palms over the world.

So IMHO, Not all Mason's are bad, Almost no masons are aware of the secrecy behind the orginization.

So, my bubble hasn't been busted, and will not be busted.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by Revolution-2012
What better way to have a secret organization than to have the masses think it doesn't exist?


That's true, but there are problems.



It was created, founded, and one of the Illuminati's initial goals was to use masons as means to form a ultimate secret society,


Assuming that's true, how do you know they were successful? Many goals aren't met.



just because you're a member of a masonic fraternity doesn't mean that you know it isn't or could be part of a secret society.


That's correct too. And equally correct is the fact that just because some you-tube video and web-site SAID something, it's not necessarily true.


Like I said, believe what you want. In fact, believe anything you read or hear. Personally I prefer facts and I'll put my 20 very active years in Masonry up against your Googling any day.

Additionally, if the video said (as stated above) "...mixed with Masonic rites from Scotland" I can see your confusion about the Scottish Rite. Masonic Rites from Scotland are not the Scottish Rite. The Scottish Rite (as I've said earlier) isn't "Scottish" in fact "Scottish Rite" is a poor name for the organization which is of American invention and spread to other countries. But, like I said, I can see why you'd be confused about that part.

I still don't know what "chanting" has to do with anything, particularly Masonry.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 07:48 PM
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Originally posted by Revolution-2012
None of you can convince me, and hopefully no other conspiracy theorist that there isn't a Illuminati, and that the Mason's have nothing to do with the illuminati,


But somehow you would like us to believe that the fraternal organization we belong to is somehow being manipulated by the Illuminati.


and you sure as the hell won't convince me that the Rockefellers and all those clowns don't have something to do with the Illuminati because their heritages go back to the day and long before of when the Illuminati was founded,


I am not quite sure I follow this. If these 'clowns' predate the Illuminati the why did they not found it themselves but instead left it to Weishaupt?


and surprisingly enough most of them admit to being part of a Masonic Fraternity,


Who exactly? Please ellaborate on which of the aforementioned 'clowns' you believe to be Masons.


So IMHO, Not all Mason's are bad, Almost no masons are aware of the secrecy behind the orginization.


But somehow you seem to know better then everyone else. What a horrible job we are all doing at keeping that secret.....

[edit on 8-2-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by Revolution-2012
Yeah, I'd of thought by this point you would of called me ignorant, close-minded or ludacris, but none of which has appeared. So therefore I will rationalize, and make it very simple to you.


The purpose here is not to insult...it's to discuss. And to be quite frank, I do think you're closed-minded if you're willing to believe something with no proof behind it. But I don't mean that as an insult at all. You've never met a member of the Illuminati, nor of the BG, yet you believe what's said about them. You're here at ATS "meeting" several actual Masons, yet apparently we're ignorant of our OWN organization? Worse yet, we're liars?

And in all seriousness, I am curious to know what grade you're in. It would help me understand where your point of view is coming from.


None of you can convince me, and hopefully no other conspiracy theorist that there isn't a Illuminati, and that the Mason's have nothing to do with the illuminati,


If you're satisfied believing that, I don't care, personally. I'm just curious as to WHY you believe it? You have no proof. All you have is a you-tube video and some web-sites. Did you know that ANYONE can post to the web? Additionally, they can post ANYTHING they want to.

But, again, if you're happy believing anything you hear, run with it! I won't lose any sleep...but I am getting quite a chuckle out of it.



and you sure as the hell won't convince me that the Rockefellers and all those clowns don't have something to do with the Illuminati because their heritages go back to the day and long before of when the Illuminati was founded, and surprisingly enough most of them admit to being part of a Masonic Fraternity, and at the same time they have their palms over the world.


Which Rockefeller? I didn't know there were still any around, but I don't get out much.




So IMHO, Not all Mason's are bad,


Yet, according to your own post, you despise us?!?



Almost no masons are aware of the secrecy behind the orginization.


That's where you're wrong. I would submit to you that ALL of us are aware of the secrecy.



So, my bubble hasn't been busted, and will not be busted.


Assuming you mean "burst" again I'll say, OK. Whatever you want to believe. It's a free country (so far).

[edit on 8-2-2009 by senrak]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 07:56 PM
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The issue of whether the Masons are "naughty or nice" has been an ongoing point of contention for centuries.

It will not be solved here nor, chances are, anywhere else.

The reason is because the Masons are secretive about their rites and purposes, the more so the higher you go in the hierarchy. This does not necessarily mean they are hiding something evil; all it means is that they are hiding something. None of us will ever know for sure what that "something" is if and until we reach the higher levels of the organization.

My take on the matter is that they are not an evil or nefarious group of people. However, there is no way to know for sure given the inherently secretive nature of the group. So arguments like this are, in a way, totally pointless, senselss, and will likely still be with us for centuries to come, with nothing of value to be learned.

But don't let any of that stop you from your good old fashioned ATS thrash... carry on, my children...


[edit on 8-2-2009 by silent thunder]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by silent thunder
None of us will ever know for sure what that "something" is if and until we reach the higher levels of the organization.


What are the 'higher levels of the organization'? Can you please define this statement? Master of the Lodge? Grand Master? Something else? Please be specific.

[edit on 8-2-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by silent thunder
The issue of whether the Masons are "naughty or nice" has been an ongoing point of contention for centuries.
It will not be solved here nor, chances are, anywhere else.


I wholeheartedly concur.



The reason is because the Masons are secretive about their rites and purposes,


Our private initiatory ceremonies are for members only, but our purposes are not secret at all, to anyone who's paying attention.



the more so the higher you go in the hierarchy.


And you know this, uhm, HOW?



This does not necessarily mean they are hiding something evil; all it means is that they are hiding something. None of us will ever know for sure what that "something" is if and until we reach the higher levels of the organization.


How "high" must one go...and how do you know??? I really like facts.



My take on the matter is that they are not an evil or nefarious group of people. However, there is no way to know for sure given the inherently secretive nature of the group. So arguments like this are, in a way, totally pointless, senselss, and will likely still be with us for centuries to come, with nothing of value to be learned.


There's always something of value to be learned, if one is willing to see both sides of the story.

Oh, and that being said, I don't just balk at the idea of something nefarious going on...just because I'm a member. Fact of the matter is I heard all that garbage before I joined, and I spent a LONG time checking into it BEFORE I joined...and I've never regretted joining.


... carry on, my children...


Nothing like a snotty, condescending remark to end a post.



[edit on 8-2-2009 by senrak]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 08:16 PM
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You know by being so damn defensive of your fraternity you are making yourselves only look more suspicious.




posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by Revolution-2012
You know by being so damn defensive of your fraternity you are making yourselves only look more suspicious.



HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! That's classic!


I suppose we're supposed to sit idly by and let any random passer-by make bold, unfounded statements about us without defending ourselves.

You're attacking US. You're saying things about ME...about Augustus, JoshNorton, etc. Because WE are Masons. So when you say "the Masons" you're talking about us. You're darned right I'll defend myself.

Would it be better if I just sat here and said "oh...I'm just a dumb-ass who joined something I don't know anything about and after 20 years of membership I still don't have a clue...but those guys who've NEVER darkened the door of a Masonic Lodge know all about it!"

Keep dreaming.

I don't care what you think about us...not one bit. But I won't sit here and let untruths be said without defending an organization I've given 20 years to, and (God-willing) will give another 40 years or so.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by senrak
 


A much simple, more profound rebuttal would run along the lines as.

"Think what you will, but I have explained to you previouslly in this thread what I know, and I know that you are conspiracizing, and you have no right to make judgement on something you've not expierenced for yourself."

Unfourtanetly, me, and many other people that conspiracize, could simply care less what you think because with every fact you present I could pull up my own fact, however for some reason or another usually when I bring up facts that link masonry to the illuminati, I'm either told the Illuminati doesn't exist or that they have no connection, however, you could kill two birds with one stone stateing something similar as what I posted above, no more debate, and more than likely you'll end up angering the conspiracy theorist, and he'll look like the clown when he tries and continue debateing.

However, I know I'm just a clown, but you jesters are really giving me some kicks.




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