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Honeybees, HIV, and You.

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posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 03:01 PM
In 2006, beekeepers around the world began to notice a trend. Suddenly, bees began abandoning their hives and disappearing. There was no obvious reason for this to occur, and implications of it were severe.

In America, honeybees are responsible for the pollination of over 90 plants which are considered "commercial crops," including fruit, vegetables, cotton, nut plants, and more. They pollinate about a third of everything that we eat, and the value of the pollination done by honeybees around the country is about $15 billion. Humans simply cannot take over pollinating these crops if the bees are in serious trouble. In China, the use of pesticides did not trigger CCD but it did cause the entire bee population of a specific area in China to die off. The humans took over pollinating their livelihood, apples and pears. They pollinate every flower by hand, and a report on Biodiversity and the Ecosystem Approach in Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries puts it mildly when they call hand pollination a "laborious and time-consuming method."

It's called Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD). Around half of all CCD cases display symptoms that are unlike any other known cause of honeybee disorders or illnesses. The adults in the colony disappear. Many other countries, like France, the UK, and Australia have experienced the same problems with their honeybee colonies, and CCD has not appeared in any other species. According to an informative website by beekeepers, the symptoms include "Sudden colony death (3-6 week period) with no dead bees around or in the hive."

There are many theories surrounding CCD, and all of them have their merit. The varroa mite, which is a bee parasite, may be responsible. Or a disease like IAPV. Pesticides are contributing to the many problems that a bee faces, and genetically engineered crops have been blamed. Drought, poor nutrition, and weather changes may also be part of the problem. And because of the need for honeybees to pollinate crops, they are migrated by trucks to different areas in order to pollinate whichever crops are in season. An invasive species of mite was considered to suppress bee immunity in 2005 according to an article in Science Daily. However, bee autopsies of CCD cases did not show mites to appear in CCD cases. Many people suggest that cell phone signals may interfere with migration and cause CCD, but it would just be another stress factor like drought that would contribute to the lowering of a bee's immune defenses.

However, the most highly suspected cause of CCD is, according to the Environmental Protection Agency, "potential immune-suppressing stress on bees caused by one or a combination of factors." Bees who exhibit CCD have parasites, fungal infections, and viruses. Their immune symptoms collapse and the bees contract all sorts of things. An article on states that "Investigators have found so many infections in surviving adult bees that many have diagnosed "immunosupression" from an unknown toxic agent." The article also states that Dennis Van Engelsdorp, a bee specialist, has said that this "could be the AIDS of the bee industry." The beekeeper website says that "Researchers have found a virus that appears to be highly associated with CCD at this point in research."

CCD seems to have affected migratory bees that are shipped around the country first, and later spread to more populations. It has been reported in many colonies in areas where pesticides are not used, or where cell phone signals are limited.

Honeybees exhibit a very interesting trait. When they become ill, they flee the hive to protect the healthy bees in their colony. The implications of CCD would be that millions of bees are becoming sick and leaving their hives to protect the colony.

A new species of the Nosema virus has been linked to CCD, according to the ARS CCD Action Plan. Essentially, what is happening is that stress is causing the immune systems of honeybees to diminish. Every factor contributes a little bit. What happens then is that the viruses in bees begin to flourish, and mutate, and viruses or fungi like Nosema emerge. They continue to mutate until something happens, a new virus emerges. It may continually weaken the immune systems of bees on their own, HIV of a different sort, for honeybees and not humans.

There is certainly enough evidence to prove that bees seem to be suffering the results of an immunosuppressant virus, similar to HIV. I highly doubt that the government is responsible for CCD, and I think that the virus which caused it mutated naturally due to a number of stress factors in honeybees which allowed more common viruses to flourish so much that they mutated. Even "healthy" honeybees from non-CCD colonies are being autopsied and tested and found to have hundreds of viruses, but they do not cause any symptoms and have been observed in bees for many years. Pesticides have been used for years, droughts have occurred before, cell phone have been around since the 1990s, and some colonies that are isolated are still not affected. Whether this situation can correlate with immunosuppressant viruses in humans is open to opinion and debate. However, Community Collapse Disorder and the decline of the honeybee population may be another piece of the puzzle.

(Post 1 of 2)

posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 03:08 PM
So how do we know that it may be an HIV type virus and not just all of the stress factors? For one, CCD seems to be contagious among migrating populations, and is occurring all over the world in environments with and without pesticides, drought, genetically modified food, or weather changes. It occurs in bees that are wild and those that are used to pollinate crops. The virus seems to have been mutating and becoming more powerful for years. In 1915, bees were locally disappearing from their colonies, and it happened again in the 1960s. Now, some bee populations are being affected by new diseases. For example, the varroa mite has infected bees for ages, but it wasn't until 2006 that scientists in Europe discovered the Varroa Destructor Virus (VDV-1). The virus makes the membranes of bees to break down. Scientists say that the virus itself does not cause CCD and is not present in all CCD populations, but it is likened to the outbreak of "rare" diseases in patients with HIV. The VDV-1 virus has been present in these mites before 2006. Why suddenly did it cause symptoms in the hosts (honeybees)? Another organism, Israeli acute paralysis virus (IAPV) has also been correlated to CCD just like VDV-1, but also does not cause CCD.

My implication is that this is how immunodeficiency viruses like HIV form. Stress factors on a species weaken the immune systems, or conditions with poor sanitation allow viruses to mutate and flourish. According to Berkeley, viruses like HIV, SIV (in other primates), and FIV (in felines) are all closely related. It is obvious that if a virus is causing CCD and suppressing the immune systems of otherwise healthy populations through migration of the virus, this virus would be classified as an immunosuppressant virus, like HIV, SIV, and FIV, because of how the virus functions.

There has been significant speculation as to the origins of HIV, and although there is significant evidence to point to government involvement in either the creation or distribution of the virus, or both, I would like to speculate on the possibility that viruses like HIV can evolve naturally. The Berkeley report states an interesting fact, that "studies of these related viral lineages showed... primates with SIV and wild cats with FIV don't seem to be harmed by the viruses they carry." For this statement to be true, which I believe it is, it implies that either the virus has mutated to coexist inside the host, or that the immune systems of felines and sapiens afflicted by the viruses have evolved to keep the animal healthy even with the virus. So, perhaps the government is responsible for the difference between humans and these organisms. However, the bees seem to be getting sick just like humans do.

Perhaps a virus like HIV can, and does, mutate to become what it exists as in the human population. There are many stress factors, especially in underdeveloped countries in Africa where the virus seems to have originated from. Overpopulation is a factor, and in cases of overpopulation, the species will somehow be regulated. Maybe HIV is the human regulator, and the government does not need to be responsible for it, nature is doing it itself. Other stresses on humans include bacteria and viruses that are known, parasites, congenital disorders, and so many more factors. Perhaps we are just bees, and we are suffering from CCD ourselves. We do not have the instinct to leave the colony when we come down with disease, but we do try and take precautions against spreading it to one another.

I really considered the possibility that the government could be responsible for the cause of CCD as a method of creating new jobs or perhaps by accident when experimenting with HIV, if they ever did. It's not possible. The reason? We would starve without honeybees to pollinate our crops. Millions would lose jobs. New technology, millions of dollars of funding, would be required unless humans pollinated each plant themselves.

Additional Sources
A great PBS video on CCD
Another beekeeper's CCD site
Abstract of CCD Report
Human Risks of Losing Honeybee Pollination
A Good Summary of CCD

All Sources Used

(Post 2 of 2)

[edit on 2/6/2009 by ravenshadow13]

posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 03:12 PM
You might want to check out this page

There is an article that blames the collapse on Clothianidin, a pesticide manufactured by Bayer.

It's worth the read.

posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 03:16 PM
reply to post by Wildbob77

It is an interesting article, and it is highly possible that it contributes to stress on honeybees.
But it is probably not responsible for CCD, based on the colonies that are affected in areas where pesticides are not used. If you are interested in these cases I suggest watching the PBS video linked at the bottom. It's very, very good.

[edit on 2/6/2009 by ravenshadow13]

posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 03:41 PM
I read the article a while ago on Clothianidin, it blew my mind.
This is a great post s&f for you.

posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 10:11 PM
Honeybees are so important. I'm sure that more people would care about these issues if they realized how many of our crops and goods exist for our use and consumption because of honeybee pollination. If there was 2/3 the amount of food that we have right now in America, that would be a huge problem, and that's what would happen if all the bee colonies get CCD.

I also think that the HIV implications are very important. CCD may provide evidence for us to understand how immunodeficiency viruses come into existence.

posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 10:17 PM
reply to post by ravenshadow13

You wrote the OP???

Very strong skills!

Interesting enough - Honey helps diversify the human immune system.

Sort of like homeopathy

posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 10:23 PM
I don't buy any of this CCD or any other name they try to give this situation.

I have been a certified bee keeper for over 25 years and their story's, and facts don't have any logic to them.

When bees become ill they die in and around the hive, period. Why? because that is what bees live for, to service their hive 24/7 365 days a year.

In fact the only time bees actually leave their hives in masses is when they swarm, thus taking all the honey with them.

Nothing is adding up with the CCD so they call it or brand it.

I have serviced 1000's of hives over the years and have seen just about everything, nothing is making any logical sense, because bees are leaving the hives and the honey in the hives and not returning.

Almost disappearing without a trace.

My guess is all the GMO crops being planted today, in fact I have actually given chickens and pigs GMO grains and they refuse to eat it. interesting huh.

[edit on 6-2-2009 by Realtruth]

posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 10:32 PM
With 1 million people out of work in the US, hand pollination would be thousands of jobs
But seriously, maybe someone is hoarding them?Sounds too "James Bond", it is most likely environmental.

posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 10:50 PM
I was watching the first X-Files movie the other week and I made this connection to the plight of the bees. What if experiments were conducted using bees to transport viruses and/or inoculations by the government over the past years. One of the viruses mutated and started spreading only the newly created virus only afects the bees.

I'm no geneticist, however it seems logical that if bees were used to transport a virus that bee would have to have a reduced imune system in order to make the designed virus pure upon delivery. If a bees imune system were 100% it would start to attack the virus as soon as it was injected, hence the bees imune system was surpressed by another pathogen and that could be spreading through the bee colonies.

With a bees sense of purpose it would leave the colony to save the greater good if it sensed something wrong. However, if this pathogen spreads like a wildfire then the whole colony would be infected in no time.

Just some out of the box thinking I was doing the other night and the bees used to spread the alien virus in the X-files just tweaked me in the above mentioned head space.

You never know what scientists with no morale constraints in terms of scientific push and unlimited defense dollars will do. Many have the opinion that if it's possible to do it, then we should do it. Look at all the existing bio weapons and such. Those are also the only ones we know about.

That new TV Show "Fringe" is great. I wonder where the writer gets his material.

[edit on 6-2-2009 by DEEZNUTZ]

posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 10:50 PM
reply to post by Realtruth

It is well known ethology that bees do live to protect and serve their colonies, but in this case they are leaving the colonies to prevent illness from spreading to other members of the colony, specifically the queen.

The majority of the beekeeping community and honeybee researching community is disagreeing with you. I would really watch that PBS video. Even if you don't agree with it, you will find it interesting, so it is a no lose situation.

I'd also like to point you to this thread where you posted "I can assure you that Michigan is affected. I had 15 hives, now I have barely 1. I ordered more bees from down south and they usually ship them in time for pollination of my fruit trees, but this year that bees won't ship until August. I am a completely organic fruit tree farmer with over 1500 trees. I am a certified beekeeper and love the little fellows, but something is very very wrong. I have been doing this for over 25 years and never have I seen anything like it."

You also say "I see it first hand, the bees are somehow, someway are not returning to the hives and I don't mean they swarm and leave the hives. These bees are actually losing there way somehow" which contradicts what you said about bees dying and being ill in the hives, staying there 24/7. That was in this thread

And also you seem to have believed pesticides to be the problem, now GM crops. It's okay, there are a lot of factors that cause honeybee immune systems to be stressed in the first place and you know that, too. The cause is still unknown. I would be really angry and confused if I were a beekeeper through this.

[edit on 2/6/2009 by ravenshadow13]

posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 10:51 PM
reply to post by mental modulator

Thank you! Yeah, honey has antibacterial properties. Interesting, right? I was just fascinated by this whole phenomena and I think it has rather important implications.

posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 10:56 PM
reply to post by PammyK

It would be super hard to just collect bees from protected colonies and hoard them up somewhere... I did say that about the jobs in my OP, though. But the people in Japan didn't seem happy. The video and article both talk about it, they have to take the pollen from the flowers, grind it up, saturate it with water and then dry it, and then dust it onto the flowers on the trees with feather tools.

Horrible, horrible manual labor.

posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 11:01 PM
reply to post by DEEZNUTZ

Haha, I knew someone would bring this up. I also covered it in the OP. Pretty much, the government wouldn't want to mess with honeybees because of how important they are. I don't know how these bees would transport viruses or bacteria... are you suggesting that they sting humans and then they get sick? I mean, a honeybee dies when it stings, first of all. Secondly, the first bees that seem to be affected were the ones that are transported around the country and let out to pollenate different types of plants. This is the commercial use. By messing with these bees, the government would be risking contamination with 1/3 of the food supply of our country. For strong conspiracy theorists, it may seem plausible. But there are so many stress factors for honeybees, the most popular theory is that of the immunosuppression either by a virus or due to a number of different factors.

Also, honeybees usually don't sting unless their colonies are provoked. It would be hard for them to just disperse around the country and randomly sting people. Plus there hasn't been an epidemic of honeybee stings, and I assume that there hasn't been an epidemic of any strange virus carried by honeybees. I also have no idea how the government would mess with the honeybee's anatomy and physiology to allow them to inject something that is not produced within their body.

The government doesn't need to be responsible for stress factors in bees, there are enough other stresses and viruses that are common in honeybees that it would be a shakey and unsanitary thing to be messing with.

[edit on 2/6/2009 by ravenshadow13]

posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 11:15 PM
My own personal take on this has always been the tremendous amount of cloud-seeding ( chem-trails ) going on has poisoned the honeybees.

Since they don't want to admit to their weather control programs, they can't find the cause of CCS ...

Just a thought ...

posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 11:16 PM
I thought I read somewhere that reported cases of CCD had significantly decreased and that bee populations were back to normal. I take it I'm mistaken.

I wonder why I thought I read that?

posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 11:21 PM
reply to post by mattifikation

They're not back to normal but they have seemed to be showing improvement in the past year. This could be because the bees are adapting to whatever the problem is, or the problem is going away. The cause is still unknown.

For my immunosuppressant theory, it kind of makes me think about why FIV and SIV don't cause symptoms even though the virus is still there, it just makes the organism a little more prone to diseases. Maybe they evolved the same way as this. Maybe one day scientists will be able to isolate an immune virus in honeybee populations. The PBS video talks about autopsies on bees and how so many of them, even ones not showing signs of CCD (leaving the colony) have all these weird viruses and fungi and mites. It's kind of weird. Maybe eventually humans will adapt to HIV. But whatever, haha, I don't think the government made HIV, I think it evolved, and therefore I am scorned by a ton of people. I just don't know. As I said in the OP, it's speculation. No answers.

[edit on 2/6/2009 by ravenshadow13]

posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 11:52 PM
reply to post by visible_villain

I was avoiding replying. I'm sorry. =(
Alright. Well, I really don't know a lot about chemtrails, and when I bought the ATS book I was so excited for that chapter so I could learn about it. I've never seen one, I'm rather skeptical...
BUT. If they are real (which they may be), that would certainly be a good explanation. A sort of side effect, right? The chemtrails are for another reason but making the bees' immune systems weaker. That's fairly irresponsible on the part of whoever is responsible for the chemtrails.

Are chemtrails common in all countries all over the world? If it was localized to America, it wouldn't be directly responsible, but it may have allowed for a virus or something to develop that is contagious.

posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 11:57 PM
I just wanted to ask a question, I don't know much about bees, but I am a little curious and just wanted to ask.

I've heard that for years they have been taking african queen bees and putting them in european bee colonies. Supposedly the african queen bees direct the colony to harvest pollen more aggressively, however the european drone bees don't sting as much, so its supposed to be a perfect combination. I wanted to ask if maybe there are physiology differences between the two types of bees, and they mate, would there be genetic complications with the offspring? They might all seem like bees to us, but from an evolutionary standpoint, they could be fairly distant. Sometimes when different species mate the offspring is sterile but otherwise healthy, like a mule, but maybe a trashed immune system is just the result of inter-species bees?

posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 12:05 AM
Everything on this Earth faces the same plight. Why? Because it's a planned response to deal with the "herd." Yes you... First you're dumbed down. Next you're branded a consumer. Lastly you're bilked for every last bit of worth, whether it be in the form of labor or medical bills.

The proper response is to have you research sympathetic vibration physics. If you can understand the true nature of frequency/ the formation of matter "us," you will start to put these pieces together. We can resonate correctly allowing DNA to flourish, or we can shatter our bond with antenna arrays and miscellaneous towers. This is by no means an accident... Not only are there natural cycles we go through, but man-made interference has become a dominant force. Take for example the 2k - 20k range. You don't hear this, but mild exposure to such vibrations can cause lethargic behavior all the way up to violent aggression.

In combination we have Genetically Modified Crops. Everyone is focused on food, but let's shift our attention to cotton. Cotton has been modified with the self-replicating DNA of certain type bacteria... And you might have guessed it... Fungus. What do we wear as clothing? What is against the skin? These fibers are transferable while the fungus immediately takes a toll on our immune system. What you're starting to find are common threads (pun intended) between immune deficiencies and environmental controls. In your spare time also look up Morgellon's Disease. Samples taken off these patients are shown to be laced with certain fungus and bacteria.

It's a slow death people... The combination of head shots and body blows.

And let me assure you... What you don't know WILL kill you, so stop being a busy bee, and start to wise up!

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