Survival in the city, or survival in the wild?

Originally posted by Ex_MislTech
If you got a well hidden place to grow food and it is fireproof you
should do well.

A long term strategy for bug-in food production would be to look at adapting the typical pitch-roof terrace house to convert into a greenhouse attic. Replace the slates with glazing, and voila!, you have a secure rooftop growspace

A prime scavenge material to build this would be the clear polycarbonate sheeting usually used as glazing in street funiture such as bus-stop windows and the clear covers for advertising hoardings. Its practically indestructible as a material, lighter than glass, and safer to handle

If you can get your hands on enough, replacing the glass windows in critical areas such as at any ground-level access point to the premesis would be a good bet too

So much comes down to what you know and are comfortable with. While an Inuite may die from starvation in what I see as a land of plenty, I would die of exposure in the arctic. Learn about what you wish to do. Be prepared no matter the situation, and as I have said so many times never become a refugee.

In the city you will have to deal with starving hordes and a possible lack of food. Diseases like plague will kill many people. Travel will be extremely limited and you will probably have issues with government regulations.

In the wild you may not have the people to deal with, but can you really find food in all the seasons of the year? [I am very well versed in primitive living and survival and know there are times when food is not available.] You will also have to deal with issues such as clean water and disease. Here we will see cholera, dysentery, giardia, and cryptosporidia to name just a few. These will kill even a strong man if not treated quickly and properly.

There are pros and cons to both sides as I have tried to state. It can be done either way. What many people just don't realize is that civilized people in a primitive world are going to die en mass. Much of it through no cause of their own. Hunger, disease, infection, exposure and violence will decimate the land in both situations.

We are not equipped with the skills to live as our forfathers once were. We must remember that the rate of attrition was much higher and sometimes even simple things would take a life. It will be no picnic for anyone even those as well versed as I.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

Originally posted by citizen smith

Originally posted by Ex_MislTech
If you got a well hidden place to grow food and it is fireproof you
should do well.

A long term strategy for bug-in food production would be to look at adapting the typical pitch-roof terrace house to convert into a greenhouse attic. Replace the slates with glazing, and voila!, you have a secure rooftop growspace

You can also easily convert a conservatory into an orangery or greenhouse,, thats the route I chose, in goodtimes my conservatory does its job and a sun room in summer, but if TSHTF it converts into a greenhouse, its 30 ft wide and 12 ft deep.

Originally posted by Northern Raider
You can also easily convert a conservatory into an orangery or greenhouse,, thats the route I chose, in goodtimes my conservatory does its job and a sun room in summer, but if TSHTF it converts into a greenhouse, its 30 ft wide and 12 ft deep.

The advantage that has over the attic garden is that weight distribution of damp growbags/pots isnt an issue .

In addittion to your conversion plan, you could build-in a stone gabion or concrete block thermal mass interlaced with plastic domestic water hose coils as a pre-heat for the hot water system



[edit on 14-2-2009 by citizen smith]

There should be a BiB (Bug in Bag) to add to the overall equipment that would give you the added advantage of making use of materials and locations in the urban environment..

Cordless drill plus x3 fully charged spare batteries (plus recharging options eg: AC transformer, direct DC)

HSS (high grade steel) assorted size drill bit box set

Allen keys (various)

Phillips/Blade/Torx/Hex screwdriver bit set

Grinding/cutting disks plus collet to fit into cordless drill chuck and use as angle-grinder

Hacksaw/padsaw handle + spare hacksaw blades

Pliers x2

Adjustable wrench x2

Hammer with axe-blade on tail end (doubles as H2H weapon)

Cold-chisel (for making access holes through brick/concrete)

Zip-ties

Gaffa tape

Any other tools to maintain primary weapon (box/xbow/etc)

...

feel free to add

At least you'd be able to get in/out of any building and cut/shape materials such as making the polycarbonate glazing found in bus-shelters into riot-shields (same material that the police use) or removing and adapting aluminium-sheet road signs into shelter-cladding etc








[edit on 14-2-2009 by citizen smith]

reply to post by citizen smith


Hrmmm... a "bug in bag" is an interesting idea that I haven't ran into yet here. With all of the talk of "BOB's" that show up on here, this simple concept could be a very valuable asset for anyone unfortunate enough to be living in the metropolitan areas.

Many people here show a desire to "get away" if we get a total SHTF incident, but lack the ability to get to an area remote enough.

Say you live in a highrise, or in a not to nice neighborhood. Unless you plan on barricading yourself in your residence, you had better be armed to the teeth. The man next door might be. In that situation, the street smart people will be ahead of the game. IMHO.

Short of a total zombie outbreak ala 28 days later, a good shoulder-carry backpack or ruck with a good loadout would suffice, methinks. Drop in some tools, rations or what have-you's and go. ?

Here is a simple list of possibilites.

_________________________________________________________________

1.) regular school style backpack, in non obtrusive color scheme. Like the kind you get from the mega-store. (Pretty common in bigger cities, lots of pack wearers)

2.) Map. Preferably with street names. (I will explain this later)

3.) Tools. Nothing too elaborate, a good multi-plier or better yet a fencing tool. Channel-lock pliers to wonders in twisting doorknobs if you get what I am saying. Obviously it could be said that a good thing would be a lock-pick set. If gaining entry to foreign places is your desire. (I would spare the power tools for that alone)

4.) Weaponry and defense. A roofing hammer would do nice, and serve as a #3 as well. (Thanks to Citizen Smith for that idea)
A good knife, choose your flavor. Other things come to mind... maybe a collapseable baton? Might be a good idea to stick to compact and deadly things, close quarters combat could be expected, and likely.

5.) Sustenance. Some energy bars, bottles of water and a way to purify the water you find. I don't know much of procuring food in the city... if it came down to it. Outside of illegal means, but there are alot of pidgeons and rats. It's possible right? A small pop-can stove might be good also.

6.) First aid. Get a good kit, and get proficient with places to refill it. Hospitals would be swamped in such times, stick to the neighborhood pharmacy. Antibiotics could come in handy. Sanitation/Sterilization means is a good idea also.

7.) Clothing. If you are gonna be out running around, take a couple of pairs of socks... at least. Only carry enough to keep you light and fast. Climate will dictate.

I'm sure there could be alot more, but most of all... plan an escape (whether streets or wilderness) This is where the map comes in handy. Case out the spots and highlight the areas of opportunity. Learn the surroundings and blend in, as that is crucial.

I'm gonna hit the reset button on my brain and try to delve a little deeper with this idea, right now all I can think of is Mad Max...

Keep it
T minus

Man, survival in a metropolitan area.

Truly only the absolutely baddest will survive.

I'm thinking about how that would work right now...

Ideas I like.

Backpack...good
Basic tools...good
Weapons...good

The question is where would you stay. If you own a large house you could turn it into a fortress...but you would be extremely vulnerable to fire. Also, no electricity cause a generator would draw attention to what you would have unless you got a solar array.

My thoughts...

two+story house, top floor as a greenhouse for growing food. Solar panels for electricity and buckets for collecting rainwater...first floor barricaded, second floor inaccessible without a remote control of some sort, remote control garage door, some type of custom frequency encryption for the remotes...it could work...

Renter in a high rise...you are so screwd unless you have neighbors who are willing to organize into an army with you. With SHTF in urban areas it will mostly be every person for themselves, but people who organize should be able to travel in large packs without worry early on, gangs will probably rapidly take over though, you should have plenty of time to basically get free with a group of 8-16 like minded people...heavily armed even better...of course where to go...

This is stimulating my brain, must think more...

reply to post by SonOfChaos


Yeah, it would take some bad mofo's indeed. Clint Eastwood style.

I wonder if I was... I would take anything available for the taking, that is if I was a city dweller. Glad I'm not.

I just thought of one thing...
Rope, and the knowledge of rappelling and vertical rope work might be nice. Dangerous too... going high up could be a tactical advantage.


Hrrrmmm...
T-Minus

On another note, something else I've always enjoyed doing is going to weird abandoned places.

A person who is good at navigating these hollowed out shells of society would probably have a massive advantage in urban areas. As long as you had a method to swoop in and get food quickly, a stealthy person should be able to do very well in an urban environment.

Here is a site about doing such things.

www.infiltration.org...

An additional piece of gear that could prove invaluable for surviving in the urban environment is one of these as detailed in a current thread: Lock Bumping and Bump Keys

reply to post by reluctantpawn


The best advise of survival in urban city right there

OK, I've said this in other threads before, but I'll repeat it once more. Regardless of where you live, you need to prepare for what you believe to REALISTICALLY be the worst case scenario you are likely to face. There have always been those who wanted to escape from the Rat Race, but the real "Survivalist" movement got going in the late 70's. Jimmy "Worthless POS" Carter was president, double-digit inflation and "stagflation" was rampant. Survivalists saw the upcoming total collapse of civilized society, if nuclear Armageddon didn't intervene first. I know, because I was there and I was into Survivalism in its current incarnation at its inception.

Well, civilized society did not collapse, but the Soviet Union did, thus drastically reducing the likelihood of nuclear obliteration. We live in uncertain and insecure times now, but it's not as bad now as it was then (yet!).

The radical move from an urban environment to wilderness would, I think, be unjustified and irresponsible unless you really want that anyway and are fully prepared by experience and temperament for such a move. Especially so considering that the economy is not as bad as it could be,

My advice is to prepare as best you can in your current urban situation...stockpile supplies, arms to defend them (depending on the law). Don't obsess about "Road Warrior" scenarios.

The usual preparation for likely disasters (hurricane, earthquake, etc.) is the best preparation of all.

The End of the World was at hand 30 years ago and never happened. I don't expect it now, either. Just some hard times that we will get over as we always have.

I say also find other like mind people in your city build a trust with them exchange survival ideas and escape plans . In short survival cells , I'm pretty much a lone wolf now who should get a drivers license and buy a jeep

After a long journey across the country, and taking time to prepare as well as inform myself on as much as I can I am convinced that preparing for survival in the wild is the better option. It is literally a matter of time before a combination of very dangerous things may cause a "worst case scenario"

The economic slide is continuing, thousands losing jobs weekly, few or no new jobs or opportunities are being made available. Water shortages are often overlooked and will be a significant problem in the western USA soon, the state of California appears to be the first and possibly worst in what will likely be a domino effect across the nation. Urban chaos is going to happen unless there are some miracles.... These issues among others are more than enough reason to be "prepared" you do not want to be trapped in an urban area when it finally all breaks down... Despite all efforts to prevent this it is already happening, especially in areas where unemployment is already greater than 25% and is growing, areas in California that are already hit particularly hard are now facing water shortages when the state has already warned it may prevent the use of water for agriculture... Add that to an already dire situation and you can begin to see the inevitable.

The economic situation on a global scale is much the same, perhaps worse depending on nation and location etc. I have personally seen enough to motivate me to be prepared for the worst some months ago, though I had never imagined that on top of all of this that we'd also be dealing with a potential pandemic.

If H1N1 does mutate and come back in the fall, adding itself to an already collapsing economy being prepared for survival alone may not be good enough... You should also consider a plan to escape the urban environment all together... Being away from the cities and towns and being prepared to live at a safe distance for an extended period of time could be immensely important to your survival.

My friends I am not a fear monger, nor do I wish only to post negativity here, I am simply stating my personal opinions based on my own research and observations... The times that lie ahead could ultimately be the greatest test of human survival skills EVER.

It is still possible that through the printing of massive amounts of money, endless bailouts of industries and financial institutions and the creation of vaccines ALL of this can be avoided.

Are YOU willing to do nothing in the hope that it all works?

Best of luck to all.



Consider bugging out before the bug gets you!

gotta chime in...

These are my last few weeks in the city at all, been planning this all year... relocating to a place I think is far enough away, without being too far to have a life... but borders allot, allot of wilderness...

Bug In Bag

what a great idea thanks thats will suit me greatly with my idea of being able to move from place to place, would it be woodlands or urban areas. looks like i need a bigger bag if i am going to add it to my BOB.

My idea is to keep moving when it hits the fan. e.g kip in 1 building for a couple of nights raid its resources and move on.

BIB wow and thanks for the list of tools to



[edit on 17-5-2009 by thecrow001]

I've always been prepared for both scenarios. If your skills and knowledge encompass both urban and wilderness survival, I think you're ahead of the curve.

I could easily see a situation also, where a city dweller went to ground IN the city, until it was safer to move.

Sure, others might have the same idea, and even plans for going to a similar location, but if they lack the skills to survive there, then they are a detriment rather than an asset.

Many places I've lived, including here, I've had a waterproof cache hidden just in case.. Goods that make an immediate difference, but things that you can spare in the event you can't make it to that location.

Also, seems to me there are a few situations that mandate evacuation immediately.

Have appreciated the responses here. There's always something to learn, no matter how well one considers themselves prepared.

I think it would be a good idea to prepare for any situation. Saying that I think preparing for both city and the wild survival would be the best thing for all of us to do. None of us has any way of really knowing what is in store for us.

the way i see it is,
if you no how to survive in the city, stay there.
a singer once sang about the city people moving out to the country, then the country would not be country no more.
you think it is hard where you live? try the rural living! we dont have what city people have to survive, the programs set up. the food banks, the shelters, public transportation, medical help near by etc..
we go without and we have been hit real hard too! we have people moving to the city leaving there houses..... the houses that have been left we have squatters in them. hope it dose not gets worse. nothing like seeing homes with boarded up windows or windows broken out etc.. we are noticing more and more of them too.

It is almost time to make a choice, the dark clouds are building, a storm is brewing. How bad will it be?

Just a few more things to do before I take an extended vacation.

Independence day is 3 days away. Enjoy the holiday weekend and the abundance of patriotism, celebrate and remember.

Good luck!