Which would be better?

Honestly, I have been getting into survival techniques in recent weeks, because everything seems to be indicating a high probability of complete economic collapse and it is so bad where I live now that a single want ad in a news paper for a part time position resulted in hundreds of people showing up... I get the feeling that it is just a matter of time before everything begins to shut down, and I too will lose my job with no chance of getting another. If that happens eventually I will run out of savings, lose my home, vehicle and other assets.

The question is, would it be best to prepare for temporary survival in the city where I'd likely be dependant on federal and state government assistance, also exposed to the high risk of violence and civil unrest?

Or, would it be better to prepare for long term survival in the wild?

I could sell off a lot my material possessions now, and invest them in survival but I am not totally sure what to do, If things get better then I suppose I wasted the money and effort, but if it gets worse... I need to be ready... And so far I only see things getting worse.

I feel there is an urgency to be prepared for the worst, though I admit I don't know what would be the best moves to make now to be prepared for what seems inevitable now. If it gets much worse, I am not sure I want to stay here in the city, especially if the company I work for shuts down along with others.

I hope I am wrong, but better safe than sorry... right?

Living in the western states where would be a good place to go and camp out for as long as may be necessary?

[edit on 6-2-2009 by Walkswithfish]

I don't know your area but I say get about 50 kms away from a city and buy a bicycle if you need to go back to the city.
Think of what you are trying to do and how to do it...then buy what you need.
Its not as easy as people think surviving in the wild so read anything you can and then try it at least twice to make sure you learned it.
I prefer the wild but as an option it is good to be just out of reach of the city but within reach enough to still use it as a resource.
Good luck.

People are crazy! Crazy people do crazy things. Get as far away from the urban environment as possible, and stay away from people all together. Very very far into the wilderness. When people get crazy they might hurt you. You can not reason with them.

Out in the wilderness however you can at least know what to expect with wild animals, a few simple rules will keep you safe because wild animals are usually predictable unlike humans.

Originally posted by Walkswithfish
I'd likely be dependant on federal and state government assistance,[edit on 6-2-2009 by Walkswithfish]

Thats all you need to think about. Would you rather try to take care of yourself even with the hardships, or do you want a babysitter feeding you and telling you how to live for your own good?

Surviving a complete economic collapse wont be easy where ever you are. If you are not at all familiar with the wilderness and how to survive in it, you could be in trouble. I'm rather experienced in the woods, but when its dark and cold and you are alone, its still scary at times. A novice would be in bigger trouble.

With that said, I have always advocated survivalists to get out of cities. Nothing good will come to those if any type of sit-x happens. Be in the economy, a war, flood, famine, whatever. Large masses of people will be very bad to be part of.

If you are truely thinking of moving, do it before its too late. But there is no reason to go to the other extreme and try to live off the land in a hut in some remote place in northern Canada. Find a rural town with good people. Sell your wares before you go and buy a small chunk of land, find local work, even if you dont get rich, you are still employed and try your best to weather this coming storm.

Either that or batten down the hatches and wait for big brother to start telling you how to live, eat, and think when you are relying on "government assistance".

Originally posted by wiredamerican
People are crazy! Crazy people do crazy things.

I've always said you cannot legislate for human-beings. We might be social animals but we're also selfish. Personally, keep away from population centres. What do I know though? You might be the mayor and run everything, in which case as long as you can keep your troops happy and unambitious stay put.

You should also consider survival in a suburban area.

Each scenario has advantages and disadvantage

I would have a grab and go kit, a place already scoped out and stocked with non-perishables---defensible vantage, solid structure, water close.
Smallish cave would be my choice.
Cities are going to get worse, and if the store shelves go empty for any amount of time, the "have nots" are going to take by fair means or foul from the "haves" to keep themselves and their families fed.
I would keep a close eye on your particular city or towns "inner city" areas. When usually normal but poor people start breaking into stores to the level that the store owners just give up and close, the beginning has started and will spread as the hungry will have to forage further out, starting a chain reaction.
As they move out into traditionally more secure areas----I.E. where police presence is greater, they will have to organize into groups to defeat the security.

If you still have a job, that would be the time I would consider a longish vacation.
Just my dos pesos.

Thank you all for the insightful posts, I did find a survivalist store in the yellow pages today and plan on going there tomorrow to both seek advice and to shop. I'll let you know what happens when I can.

I do have a question...

Originally posted by FredT
You should also consider survival in a suburban area.

Each scenario has advantages and disadvantage

Can you elaborate on this a bit more please?

Depending on how much balls you have, surviving in the suburban area means there are plenty of "spare items" that are just "lying" around that you can "borrow" from houses. Once it's time for survival anything goes.

Almost everyone, so far, has suggested running for the hills: if someone is normally urban-dwelling, they're not going to be able to cope too well out in the wild.

While I keep bug out bags and keep the car stocked in case of a "bug out" I'm one of those people that likes creature comforts.

But let's see what we'd face when heading to the wild...

* You'd need a bug out location. No use just getting-up-and-going to the middle of nowhere with no proper shelter and supplies.

* Everyone else might soon realize "hey, people are going nuts, let's get out of the city..." - instant jammed up traffic, unless you have advanced warning of something about to happen.

* Otherwise unpopulated areas could quickly become populated - and then you have the original problem you were facing, only difference being you're now stuck without possible supplies that urban areas offer.

There's no reason to head for the woods unless everyone started turning into zombies, or some other immediate disaster threatened the area.

Take the automatic lack of trust in humanity that a few survivalists show with a grain of salt (although I suppose they have their reasons).

It's also important to have a sense of community, and only go it alone if you're prepared and trained.

Originally posted by Nventual
Depending on how much balls you have, surviving in the suburban area means there are plenty of "spare items" that are just "lying" around that you can "borrow" from houses.

I'm one of the 'bug-ins' and dont intend to relocate from suburbia to the wilds unless there's absolutely no other option...and there's not a lot of 'great outdoors' to bug-out to in the UK (unlike US/Canada/Aus) given the landmass of this little island and a 65+ million population.

There is a wealth of materials and equipment in your average suburban environment that can be adapted and used to repair/build housing or fabricate traps and weaponry

Once it's time for survival anything goes.

Too right...does anyone have any good tips on how to dress longpig?

My maps show multiple possible escape routes OUT of the city and toward the most suitable mountain range. A doable distance that may take a few weeks at worst. sparsely populated, well treed and many streams and /or small lakes.

vancouver will be a death trap in teh event of a massive catastrophe...the fear will be not from starving, illness or injury by accident but the fear OF other people who are not equipped to deal with emergencies they face.

The first few months of city life will be absolute chaos and I want no part of it. After a few months "community" will again prevail in small pockets but there will likely still be a lot of strife.

Me and mine are equipped well for survival in the boonies. Personally I think it's a safer bet for the first little while.

O course when we move East I'll have to devise a new BOB and emergency plan...

Definitely if you are skilled at survival heading out of the city may be the safest thing.

There are pros and cons to both, much of which depends on the reason for "survival". One thing about the city is the true abundance of food. Ask anyone from India, Cambodia, Laos, etc. There is a multitude of game, dog, cat, rat, and pigeon. All of these are good sources of protein, and in an urban environment, easily obtained. Get over your fear of unclean foods, people have been eating these animals for centuries. Find a clean water source, It is your lifeblood. Trust no one the two legged predators are the most dangerous and WILL kill you if they think you have something of value. Learn to disappear. Wear clothing and equipment that are non-descript. Make people think you are crazy and they will intentionally iqnore you. Shelter should be hard to access and in a well hidden area that is never approached the same way twice. Survival in the city is the same as in the country, you will still have to adapt to a new way of life.

As for any dependence on the govt. Never become a refugee no matter where you are. Never depend on others for your welfare. Never think that others know what is best for you. Be your own person and learn, learn, learn. There are many good books and even websites that have a plethora of knowledge for your perusal. Some libraries even have books on the subject. Check out the FEMA website. Learn new skills and be creative in the way you think. I clear sharp mind is the best tool you can ever have.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

The problem with bugging out to the countryside is everyone will have the same idea. You'll have thousands of clueless city folk with few, if any real survival skills, that consider "roughing it" sleeping in their Winnebago or pop up camper.

When their meager supplies run out, they'll naturally resort to stealing from the locals to survive. This kind of thinking stems from a strange sense of entitlement a lot of people seem to have nowadays. You have to much, so I'm going to forcefully redistribute it for you. This will not endear them to anyone, and will most likely get them shot, or at minimum driven off the private property they have so brazenly chosen to squat on. Believe it or not, all that land was bought and paid for by the sweat of someone else's brow.

To put some perspective on this, imagine you own a home in the city, and one morning you wake up to find several homeless people camped out in your backyard. How do you think you'd react to that situation? Will you welcome them with open arms, or run their butts off your property?

Maybe you wouldn't mind them being there, but are you willing to risk your life, and that of your family by allowing complete strangers to be in such close proximity? Who knows what kind of people they are? With some individuals you can give them an inch and they'll take a mile.


[edit on 7-2-2009 by LLoyd45]

Originally posted by mattguy404
Almost everyone, so far, has suggested running for the hills: if someone is normally urban-dwelling, they're not going to be able to cope too well out in the wild.

Agreed, to prove that point, where I live we had a power outage last summer that lasted for several hours, my neighbor came over to borrow candles and my manual can opener... they only had an electric.

Good stuff in this thread, thanks.

I honestly hope it never happens, but I want to be prepared for the worst, today I will be going to a survivalist store to learn more and to shop.

I dont agree at all with people saying "Dont goto the country thats everyone elses idea". Um no, those people would be preparing just like this guy if it was their idea. What youre really saying is "Dont goto the country because thats going to be everyone elses idea".

The people who arent prepared arent going to the country, they are going to the lakes etc surrounding the cities. They cant survive in the wilderness. Also all land isnt owned by the sweat of someones brow, thats a completely uneducated statement. A lot of true survivalist and hunters will head for a national park.

Im not going to tell you exactly what Im gonna do for good reason but some things to think about... Take the rocky mountains for instance. Utah, heck even California. California is fighting a huge drug problem right now against immigrants that come up and live in the national parks to grow marijuana. They do it in areas no one ever goes to because its so far inside the park.

I mean seriously there are a ton of places to go to be away from people and a lone. What you need to think about is what will everyone else do?
Not a whole lot of people will be prepared, they believe in this whole society bs. Fact is at the end of the day when people are starving there is no society, its an illusion. Im more scared of starving humans than running into bears in the wilderness.

So for me the answer is obvious, first off my advice is to look at the situation. You arent going to want to run for the hills because of a temporary black out. Take the appropriate response to the situation. Keep katrina in the back of your mind. If its on that level yeh head for the hills. If its worse you might wanna grab your bug out pack and run like your life depends on it.

I dont know where you live but if its biological or nuclear and youre in a city, you want to have a 15 minute plan. Have everything in order so you could get out of your house in 15 minutes and never return. Keep gas in your car and keep your bug out pack in the car everywhere you go. Youll always be ready for a survival siuation.

I think in that kind of disaster, the lakes will be fished dry pretty quickly. Wanna fish? So do all your friends. Hunting large game will be next, you need to know how to catch the smaller game. Snares and traps are perfect for that. And check your personal beliefs maybe a 22 cal. would be a good investment.

IMO, the most unp[redictable and dangerous aspects of the entire scenario involves the actions of others.

Riots, looting, disease outbreak as living standards and health decline, government response to uprising, services being disconnected, infrastructure failing, and millions of others who have less of a clue about managing than I do.

All of these things dictate that getting as far away from a large population is the first thing anyone should do in order to improve their survival.

Small teams of trusted people are probably the best option to increase survival chances of all.

Personally, I'd make sure I had enough to trade and enough relevant skills to be accepted into a small and protective community elsewhere.
We are quite lucky in the UK, we have thousands of small towns with small populations hidden down country roads. I could start walking now and within two hours be in a tiny town with a population of 100.
As long as my group has enough to offer, we'd have a place to stay to ride out the initial storm, and then decide what to do from there.

Being devious at best when I get clients who hire me to help them develop BOB plans and relocation plans, If I dont particularily like them I tend to advise them to move to the SW or Wales, where I know they will struggle, but not be a burdon on my group. The families of individuals I like and respect I encourage to move up the Co Durham, cumbria and Northumberland where we can mutually benefit each other.