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Sea Shepherd Protesters Ram Japanese Whalers in Intense Clash

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posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by bigfoot1212
we have more pressing issues in this world than worrying about the F###ing whales. life will go on without them. maybe we should worry more about humans killing humans than some marine animal? and peta needs to be wiped out like our congressmen do


Whales are intelligent mammals and have no chance against modern hunting technology. We need all life and take giant leaps to insure that no more species go extinct. We should be the shepherds of the world and not the butchers.

To state not to worry about humans killing humans than some marine animal is out of context.

Life may not go on without them it is pretty hard to tell where the breaking point will be in wiping out life and will result in maybe our demise in the long run. We are humans we can control our greed and not wipe out a species.




posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 10:32 AM
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I wonder if the Sea Shepherd crew enforces a vegan or vegetarian diet on-board ship, my guess is that they do.

And therein lies the rub of this, if people with these agendas were ever elected to power, they would pass laws to prohibit the sale of animal products.

First it's the whales, then it would be foie gras, next would be veal, then deer hunting would go, until finally they would prohibit the consumption of eggs.

Extremists are always the same, they are extreme.

Sometimes Hitler has a goatee and a rainbow headband. Me, I prefer moderates, they are more open to reason.

[edit on 6-2-2009 by Retseh]



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by Retseh
 


Maybe whales have the same rights as humans do, and we've already polluted the oceans and hunted some populations to near extinction in some areas.

Whales nurse their young, did you know that? It's like if someone went around killing dogs, really, for their teeth or something.

Given the fact that I am pursuing a career in marine mammal conservation, my stance on this issue is obvious.

Whaling is a horrible, archaic industry and I have no idea why it is still legal in some countries. It's kind of like how the tiger population is down to only a few species left, and they are all endangered because people still hunt them to use their bones in Ancient Chinese Medicine.

*shrug* If you think that whales deserve to be murdered for profit, then I really have nothing to say to you. I think it's horrible because whales are extremely intelligent, sensitive creatures and honestly if some advanced species hunted us on purpose, we would be horrified. So we should do the same for them. I honestly can't debate this issue of whaling itself because it's just wrong.

And if people need to break the law and risk harm to themselves and the whalers, then so be it. I'm pretty much basing my education and life on the conservation and study of whales, and their tracking. I would probably have done the same thing that the Steve Irwin crew did, and I think that's okay.

Edit- In addition, these animals aren't the same as cattle. We don't breed them to kill them. They are WILD animals and many of them are being tracked by biologists and zoologists. And there really isn't a surplus of whales in our oceans. People can eat duck all the want, or beef, or use leather- but those are industries which also supply and breed these animals so there are enough that we can use them/eat them/whatever. There's a difference between killing animals that there are millions of, bred specifically to be killed for food or whatever, than just going into the oceans and killing animals that have no protection of their own, animals that are, again, wild. If the whalers want to breed enough whales in captivity to kill them, fine, whatever. But this is just NOT okay. Whales aren't even that useful for the amount of mass that they have.

This is seriously a personal issue, but it's also important.

[edit on 2/6/2009 by ravenshadow13]



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by Kalrana
reply to post by munkey66
 

As to your last comment re wiping out a species. Well if you knew anything about the history of whaling and the slaughter of them not a even century ago right here in Australia (Fremantle on the west coast and Eden on the east coast are due to whaling) by Australians, over 26000 southern right whales in just over 108 years. Thats just one species and what happened in the Americas and right throughout ALL the oceans of the world, if they were not wiped out then, they wont be wiped out by hunting now. Do some research on the International Whaling Commission, its history and original goals may suprise a few people and while your at it the history of whaling, the numbers killed then and the numbers killed now and the estimate numbers of whales prior to the introduction of the IWC and the estimated numbers now to see just how sustainable whaling really is

DENY IGNORANCE seems to be a catch cry on here but so many people seem to take only one side of the story as gospel. Research both sides of an argument first saves a lot of arguments in the long run



What are you talking about? The fact is they nearly were wiped out!! Why do you think the legislation was introduced to protect whales and also other fish stocks around the world in the first place?? To put people out of work, to make them go hungry? No, to protect the species from over fishing, to help stocks make a recovery! Do think its not possible for people to make a species extict or something? Go do your research, take a look at the Dodo for example among others!



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by Saf85
reply to post by Kryties
 


which is why your hippy ship is doing the dirty work for them.


Hippy ship? What the hell is that, you think it has flowers painted on it and they play the Grateful Dead over a loudspeaker or something?


They are gathering evidence of one country breaking another countries laws of trespass.

They are also trying to protect an endangered species. I dont think God made all this world for those extremist evangelical Jesus loving Dominionists to think mankind can kill off one species at a time.



[edit on 6-2-2009 by LoneGunMan]



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by Retseh
I wonder if the Sea Shepherd crew enforces a vegan or vegetarian diet on-board ship, my guess is that they do.

And therein lies the rub of this, if people with these agendas were ever elected to power, they would pass laws to prohibit the sale of animal products.

First it's the whales, then it would be foie gras, next would be veal, then deer hunting would go, until finally they would prohibit the consumption of eggs.

Extremists are always the same, they are extreme.

Sometimes Hitler has a goatee and a rainbow headband. Me, I prefer moderates, they are more open to reason.

[edit on 6-2-2009 by Retseh]



What? Where is your evidence?? What your saying is pure speculation and just your own biased POV, who says the crew on the Sea Shepard aren't meat eaters? And you talk about being open to reason! Who could reason with you when have nothing to back up your own arguments other than your guess



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 11:36 AM
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While I know many Japanese who have eaten whale, I do not know many who actually like it. Most who have eaten whale have only done so because it was forced upon them in the form of a school lunch. I have not known anyone to actually buy whale meat at the store to serve at home and I have never been with anyone who ordered whale at a restaurant. There are tons of the stuff in freezers, since there is no market for it. Whale is the most inexpensive meat for sale in Japan and it still doesn't seem to sell.

I saw a television commercial for dog food that said "I like whale and your dog likes whale, too" or something like that. I guess they figure if they can't get people to eat it, maybe they will feed it to their dogs.

I am 100% against whaling, but I do not agree with the tactics used by Sea Shepherd.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by tamusan
While I know many Japanese who have eaten whale, I do not know many who actually like it. Most who have eaten whale have only done so because it was forced upon them in the form of a school lunch. I have not known anyone to actually buy whale meat at the store to serve at home and I have never been with anyone who ordered whale at a restaurant. There are tons of the stuff in freezers, since there is no market for it. Whale is the most inexpensive meat for sale in Japan and it still doesn't seem to sell.

I saw a television commercial for dog food that said "I like whale and your dog likes whale, too" or something like that. I guess they figure if they can't get people to eat it, maybe they will feed it to their dogs.

I am 100% against whaling, but I do not agree with the tactics used by Sea Shepherd.


Interesting. There is a strong sense that this is merely about standing up to western moral imperialism and condescension. The majority of arguments against whaling are purely emotive and there fore soaked in hypocracy -

There are arguments which can be made, however purely emotive ones simply do not stack up.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 11:48 AM
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It seems that many of you are drawing up a false choice between the life and health of whales and the life of human beings. Most would probably agree that the taking of a human life is a tragic and terrible thing, but take away the percentage of people who think it would be OK to shoot an intruder, as well as those who think that war is a necessary evil, as well as those who feel it is acceptable to shoot a trespasser who is chopping down trees on their land, and suddenly we're all on the same page.
Yes, whales are important. All living things are. Make of that what you will. The crew of the Sea Shepherd had every right to defend it's country's waters against illegal poachers, as much right as a policeman has to guard the streets.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by Leto
 


Leto clearly does not know what sentient means, whales are definitely sentient beings. Let me educate you a little Leto:

sen⋅tient   /ˈsɛnʃənt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sen-shuhnt] Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. having the power of perception by the senses; conscious.
2. characterized by sensation and consciousness.
–noun 3. a person or thing that is sentient.
4. Archaic. the conscious mind.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1595–1605; < L sentient- (s. of sentiēns, prp. of sentīre to feel), equiv. to senti- v. s. + -ent- -ent

Source: dictionary.reference.com...

So, anything that can "feel" is a sentient being. Anyone who is ignorant enough to believe that if we lose a giant mammal like that and it will not affect the ecosystem must be near retarded, or perhaps just blind. Either way, I feel sorry for you.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by Leto
 


the whales are going exstinct.... maybe your not paying attention

The whalers should make a living... right, but not killing a dying species. Global rise in sea tempatures and eleveated levels of carbon in those waters are causing some Marine life to end up on the shores.. dead.

Do a little more research before you post such a very small post.

LRAD- is the U.S.'s new toy... interesting how commercial fishers got the device....



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 12:28 PM
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Paul Watson is a jackass. I've seen that show. And the other officers in that crew are incompentent nincompoops.
They are so bad that in one episode most of the crew left the ship in disgust. And I don't blame them.

I don't agree with what japan is doing to the whales. But you'd think that Sea Shepherd would think up other ways to fight the whale hunts.

Why not try to find different ways to scare the whales out of the area?
How about putting the ship in between the harpoon and the whale as a living sheild. They claim that they will risk their lives to save the whale. But all I see are juvenile tactics.
Tactics that don't work.

It's no wonder Green Peace told him to leave.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 12:28 PM
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You know, its funny, the only ones who seem to recognize the Australian southern waters are.. Australia. the rest kind of laugh at the convicts.

Well, heres the deal, the protesters, should be shot and dumped in the ocean for the crimes they routinely commit. This isn't the first ramming incident, and they have been noting but a harrasing nuisance to the people on the seas. But that seems the general action o fthose types. Oh hey, lets ram vessels, it'll be fun, but, don't take action against us, you'll put lives at risk. While at the same time, they carry on regardless and put others lives at risk.

hey, for all you America bashers.. if you want it right there in front of you.. these guys act just like America. go hate them too.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 12:31 PM
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Harvesting whales might actually be a good thing. The whales eat from the bottom of the food chain. And the bottom of the food chain seems to be in dismay lately. The less whales the less destruction of the bottom of the food chain . The food chain works from the bottom up . So the protesters might actually be sealing their own unfavorable fate.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 12:39 PM
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You see, the whole reason man kills man, is because it's ok to kill members of other species with no remorse. Like it or not, it desensitizes us into believing they are lower life-forms than us and that it is ok to relentlessly kill them.

Then people are surprised when we have genocidal countries, dictators, and other madmen advocating killing others. Killing is killing.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by wiredamerican
 


Not all whales feed at the bottom of the food chain. While some whales, such as right whales feed on plankton, others have a different diet. The sperm whale eats squid. Gray whales eat invertebrates that live in the mud at the sea floor. Humpback and fin whales feed on small schooling fish and krill.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by Saf85
 


Whales are a very intelligent creature. Their lives may not be as important, but it doesn't mean they are not important at all.


The more they find out the more intelligence they find.


You can't have an all or nothing attitude regarding everything. Yes there are bigger problems, yes there are smaller problems. But every problem can't be ignored. There are already people tackling the big problems. Might as well tackle what is important to you.

Human problems are self afflicted. Whale problems are human afflected. They would be just fine without us here. So we are obligated to help a species we are destroying, lesser species or not.

One of the things that is a the problem is that the whales do not reproduce quickly.
So if they are overfished, they can be made extinct quite quickly.

Humpback whales only have between 10 and 15 calves, if those calves make it.

There are only 10,15k humpback whales world wide. That is not a lot.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by Leto
 


this is one of those arguments where it's easy (for me) to see both sides

but - I definitely feel one side more than the other



I think you're not understanding him. He's saying whales aren't as important as humans, yet you continue to anthropomorphize these whales. It's like if you're saying these whales are just as important as us.


for some people - they are

since the humans can't even agree if we're important enough to not kill - I can see how this might seem like a futile and nonsensical belief - that the whales might actually be important - as important as we are

I love the word anthropomorphic - as if recognizing human qualities in the animal kingdom is something akin to believing in fairies (no offense meant to those of you who believe in fairies)

perhaps they aren't so much human characteristics that we recognize - as characteristics that many creatures share - the results of evolution that's played out somewhat differently for all of us

because we've decided we're superior - (and in some ways - clearly, we are - if you're going to go by power) it's easier to dismiss the other creatures by not allowing for the possibility of their being able to think and feel

then we don't have to worry about caring how we treat the rest of the planet - it's much easier to not feel their pain if you just say they don't feel pain - or don't deserve to be spared pain



What these protestors are doing is akin to burning down a meat factory because you believe eating meat is wrong. That's violent and irrational behavior.


also true - and I'm against violence

there are better ways to fight this sort of thing - but they're slower and less dramatic

and many of the whalers are just trying to make a living - doesn't go any further than that

but, that doesn't excuse the torture

personally - I don't support the violence - but I understand it

I believe that for most people - if it was a situation where someone was trying to brutally kill our dog - we'd react in a way that would surprise ourselves

but, that's because we care about our dogs (I'm making an assumption here of course)

some people care about the whales



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by Leto
We are sentient, whales aren't.


Wrong buddy.

Sentient assumes that the subject feels pleasure and pain - whales are therefore sentient.

Your apparent coldness, indifference and/or apathy to the murder of another living being probably makes you less sentient than a stone.

In a civilised, non-poverty stricken society, there is absolutely no need to kill to eat.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by Saf85

Would you like me to come smash your house windows in? Assault your wife or kids? Hurl abuse at them? (or any other family member), steal from you? Damage your property?


If I was im my house illegally killing other living beings, then you better!

If you know I am killing people or animals it is your duty to try and stop me. It is NOT okay to just stand there and watch as I kill right in front of you.

the fact is that whales play a VERY important part in our ecosystem. That has already been pointed out in this thread though so I will not go into that, since im sure you have already read that part of the thread.

Whales die out and it will HURT human beings! Simple as that.

So yes, if I am in my house, killing living creatures and holding people hostage who have tried to stop me (yes a protestor was held hostage on a whaling ship) and im trying to harm others who are trying to stop me from killing, THEN YES, BREAK INTO MY HOUSE ,SMASH MY WINDOWS, GO AFTER ANYONE WHO IS HELPING ME KILL! LOCK ME AWAY FOR KILLING!

There are plenty of reasons why through out history we have gone after people who have killed aimlessly. If you think for a second you should have no problem figuring those reasons out. If you cant figure it out let me spell it out for you.

Killing is wrong, It only hurts the collective world. It does no good. It causes pain, suffering

Look, you can do what you want, I know that my post most likely wont change your view on this issue. I have been around the block enough to know that atleast. But here is the thing...

If you want, while people are killing right in front of you, go ahead and close your eyes and ears and pretend that nothing bad is happening. While you are pretending, I, and many others will not stand by and ignore it. We are going to stop the killers from killing again.

The path to change is through action, my friend. Nothing will ever change if you sit there and pretend nothing bad is happening.

If you want to make the world a better place then take action! If not, just continue the way you've been doing things.

Peace and love


[edit on 6-2-2009 by gimme_some_truth]



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