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Sea Shepherd Protesters Ram Japanese Whalers in Intense Clash

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posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 02:39 AM
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If there is any single reason that a civilised human being should be against whaling, it should be that there is no way to quickly and humanely kill an animal the size of a bus.

The Japanese whalers use harpoons with explosive bolts. When one hits the whale, it is horrifically maimed and takes, usually, as long as 30 minutes to die.

Consider then the intelligence of these animals, then you must comprehend the terror and agony these animals suffer before death. The Japanese, however, like this, because they believe that an animal that suffers terror and pain before death tastes better.

So then, finally think about this. Commercial whaling has been outlawed for many years now, but the Japanese continue to do so under the guise of 'scientific research'.

Would someone please tell me WHAT research is that critical that it requires the slaughter of 1500 whales per year?




posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 04:13 AM
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reply to post by Kryties
 


Its good to see some people have a heart on these forums, who gives a crap about the whalers there proposal was thrown out and they're STILL doing this so as far as I'm concerned they should be thrown to the animals they're hunting, stabbing an animal a few times and dragging it till it dies is jus plain barbaric..

As far as the comments people being more bothered about animals than humans - what humans are you talking about specifically? Humans can and DO fend for themselves, whales don't do jack against us so for god's sake attach some jump leads to some of your extremities and jump start the few brain cells you have left

Peace

[edit on 12-2-2009 by ItsallCrazy]



posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 07:26 AM
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Originally posted by Beelzebubba
reply to post by Leto
 


Hmmm... does this mean you support the rights of seal-clubbers to go about their inhumane business?

[edit on 5/2/2009 by Beelzebubba]


I don't know about Leto, but I certainly do.. I hope seal clubbers do more clubbing, as the seals are a bloody nuisance. I also hope they fry them in a little canola and have a great meal.

Hypocrites and perception make this world a bewildering place to live.

Whats more "inhumane", walking up to a seal and bashing it's head in after they have lived a life outside or trapping a chicken who has lived in a 12" x 12" cage all it's short life and beheading it? Why aren't you protesting the 1000's of chicken farms in the US/UK? I guess you are not all that consistant are you? But that's typical for your breed.


HYPOCRITES AND PERCEPTION


I ate chicken last night, and I had a Porterhouse on Monday. I also had buffalo last week. I didn't have "whale", but if it was tasty, local, and didn't cost all that much, I'd buy it and give it a go. Same with baby seal (meat is more tender right?)

The point is that who gets to decide what animal is OK to mistreat and eat?
Or use for other purposes? YOU? Your misplaced value and "majestic" BS and personal agenda based on PERCEPTIONS is what is wrong with us humans in the first place. If we had any kind of consistancy we'd be a better "humane" race to begin with. You'll probably NEVER realize that YOU are also a part of the problem you are railling against, because you just don't get it.

One is a hypocritical jerk if you assign one higher value to a whale’s life than a mouse’s life or an ants life for that matter. Each animal is alive, each thinks (although at different levels) but yet YOU still assign them a life value based on how you perceive them..

HOW IS THAT NOT MORE DISGUSTING THAN ANYTHING THE JAPANESE ARE DOING?


Why is it that I can kill and eat a deer but I cannot kill and eat a kitten?
Why is it that in China I can raise a dog for meat but in the US I'd be arrested?
Why can I keep a chicken in a cage but not a cat?
Why can I eat the babies of fowl and not the babies of canines?

Why was it OK to hunt whales 100 years ago but not today?

I'll tell you why.. PERCEPTION, personal hypocritical PERCEPTIONS.

You cite lies by the Japanese.. they have to lie to get what they have always had.. some sensitive idiots in power decide to ban what they have done for hundreds of years? Their government is bullied and blackmailed into signing agreements to appease.. What do you expect?

You go on about school children having whale in their lunch like it's the most evil thing that could ever be.. (Again assigning value as you see fit)


So yes, I'd support the baby seal clubbers club and maybe even send in a donation, if I knew it would bother hypocrites and perception based morality annoyances like you.

I'll also throw down my own prejudices and join any group you see fit when they show us some real moral consistency and lack of hypocrisy, something Greenpeace, Sea Sheapard and all the rest of the inclusive groups lack.

I've known vegans, vegetarians, animal activists and everything in between and not one EVER has displayed any semblance of moral or logical consistency, not ONE has ever shown a lack of hypocrisy in the causes dear to their hearts.

Not One.


I know your post wasn't aimed at me, but I could see the smugness and condemnation dripping off your posts and I just wanted you to know that a lot of us see right through you.



posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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Captain Paul Watson and his crew are heros in my book.



posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 03:59 PM
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Besides, there are LOTS of other human cultures and races, so the loss of one arrogant, selfish race should hardly be a footnote. -Webmusher

Judging another culture/race "selfish" and "arrogant" is a supremely arrogant act in itself. Hitler did something similar.

While flying patrol I just happened to stumble upon a Japanese whaling ship In U.S. Waters. Tried to contact them 3 times , no response. Fired the 50Cal traces, and then I have a response. This Japanese whaling ship was claiming scientific research in U.S Waters. Hmmm ..called up the U.S Coast guard, They did not buy that story either. The coast guard sent two ships and escorted the Japanese vessel back to port. The U.S tax payers are the new owners of this fishing vessel. Glad I rolled the camera on this incident; pretty incrementing evidence. I hope there still in jail. -SJE98

Care to provide some evidence? Surely you can give us the name of the vessel you fired upon? The time and date of this event would also help me and others verify your claim. Until then, I think this can safely be filed under FICTION.

I also very much doubt the Sea Shepherd Protesters Rammed the Japanese vessel, that's such propaganda from Japan. -SJE98

Sea Sheperd vessels are fitted with concrete in the bow, and hull cutters. Specifically for ramming and cutting up other ship hulls. According to "Earth Warrior" by David Morris. (written with Watsons support)
Long story short, Paul Watson purposely sets his ship up as a ramming vessel, has admitted to ramming other vessels in the past, paints the names of sunk vessels on his ships hull.
He's not sinking those vessels by throwing bottles of "rancid butter" on them, nor is he shooting any ordinance, that only leaves ramming and using his hull cutters which require ship-to-ship contact.
Again, he has readily admitted to ramming ships before, and admitted to outfitting his vessel for ramming, detailed in the book I mentioned. There is no real reason to believe him now, when he says he wasn't trying to ram.

Consider then the intelligence of these animals, then you must comprehend the terror and agony these animals suffer before death. The Japanese, however, like this, because they believe that an animal that suffers terror and pain before death tastes better. -eonpeon

This is not true at all, you are making this up in it's entirety. The Japanese do not think that terrorized food is better. This sounds like so much propaganda from anti-whaling organizations. Much like Paul Watsons false claim that the Japanese did not whale historically.

What about the U.S. use of loud/low frequency sonar in the water? They are proven to directly harm whales. Having your "ears" caved in and then dying from starvation due to not being able to hunt is cruel.

Why isn't Paul Watson taking on the U.S. Navy or the Marines?
I guess some Japanese civilians make easier targets.

Fact is, the responsibility for the modern status of whales, lies in the hands of the US and parts of Europe. Japan has been whaling for over a thousand years, and their local waters have NEVER run out of whales in that period of time. U.S. waters on the other hand were depleted in a few centuries.

I think the U.S. and some parts of Europe should have to bear the burden of wide scale whale breeding programs for the world. After all, they did the most harm.
Shouldn't the most irresponsible have to make restitution? A criminal saying "I won't do it anymore" is not restitution.
Shouldn't the US and parts of Europe have to make a marked contribution to encourage whale numbers? Setting aside a portion of water you don't even own for a "conservation zone", is not a contribution. Nor is refusing to whale in your own over-whaled waters a contribution.

gormly, you hit the nail right on the head. Good show. The real unfortunate part of it is, most people don't even realize they are being hypocritical.

P.S. The IWC whaling ban is VOLUNTARY folks, it is not a law.



posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 08:05 PM
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I don't buy anything that's Japanese.



posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 10:52 PM
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Some things I have learned from participating in this thread. Whaling is not being conducted illegally. The IWC was created by the whaling nations to keep whales from going extinct. Japan is not the only country that hunts whales. Japan stopped whaling under a treaty made with the U.S. and the U.S. broke that treaty which resulted in the Japanese resumption of whaling. Animal rights people make up their own facts, such as "Japanese think that tortured animals taste better" (do a little research and you will find the real cultures that think it). There are many whales that are endangered, but the ones on the menu are not. Whaling nations have an interest to practice conservation and keep whales from going extinct. Most importantly, I have learned that I was wrong to be 100% against whaling.

As a salute to Watson, I have instructed my wife to serve whale for dinner when I come home tonight. She has never prepared whale before and is a little shocked that I want it.

My city sees a very large number of tourists and as a white guy in Japan, I am seen as a friendly person to ask about what to do here by many of them. I will most certainly suggest they try the whale.



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 12:22 AM
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Wow, you talk about these self proclaimed protectors of the whales as if they are heros while they damage private property, using prop snares, ramming, and illegal bording of japanese ships. You say protect the whales because they are endangered and the evil japanese continue to kill them. There was a time when whaling was legal and these whales were abondant. So what will you do when the Dingo population has been murdered down to the same numbers, will you then decide to protect them as well or do their lives carry less meaning then you all precious whales? Or will you continue your1080 drops until they are all gone and left to rot? I always love a good double standard, you seem to have one of the best I've seen in awhile. For those who dont know 1080 is a poision used in arial drops used to send dingos to a long drawn out and painful death. One of these baited drop targets was the Kosciusko national park a home to the last 100 pure alpine dingos ( That sounds pretty endagered to me)
Bottom line you people who love to point fingers at others need to take a look in the mirror once in awhile.



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 01:54 AM
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reply to post by Leto
 

That could be, Leto. (Laughing a bit) . . .Not at you, just at my thought about reading your posts as if Data were talking! (As though it is also possible you're Lore posing as Data)!


For the Whale's sake man, re-install your emotion chip! just kiddin

You're logical, which suggests you can consider alternative possibillities. And sentient, which means you can take my comments with a grin, or dismiss them as some kind of insult (that's not my intention, btw). I only ask if you can view all life as connected in an un-scientific way, if you would, Spiritually. With a `reverence for Mother Earth and the environment' where all creatures are kin, in the Sacred Hoop of Life sort of way...don't worry, I won't go religious on you, since you stated you are athiest; I'll just let you know how I pray for athiests at Mass!



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 06:57 AM
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Just some tidbits:

sources:
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...


A 2006 episode of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's popular science show Catalyst, which strongly argued against whaling, reported that of the 18 year JARPA I program, which lethally obtained samples from 6800 whales, less than 55 peer-reviewed papers were produced, of which only 14 were claimed on the program to be relevant to the goals of the JARPA program, and that only four would require lethal sampling.



Due to the proximity to Australia, the government of Australia has been particularly vocal in its opposition to Japan's whaling activity in the Southern Pacific. In 1994, Australia claimed a 200-nautical-mile (370 km) exclusive economic zone (EEZ) around the Australian Antarctic Territory, which also includes a southerly portion of the IWC Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary.



In December 2007, the Rudd government announced plans to monitor Japanese whalers about to enter Australian waters in order to gather evidence against Japanese whalers for a possible international legal challenge and on January 8, 2008 the Australian government sent the Australian customs vessel Oceanic Viking to track and monitor the fleet.



Japanese whaling ship in Antarctic waters were injured March 3, 2008 when the anti-whaling group threw butyric acid on board.


butyric acid-It is found in rancid butter, parmesan cheese, vomit, and body odor and has an unpleasant smell and acrid taste, with a sweetish aftertaste (similar to ether). Butyric acid can be detected by mammals with good scent detection abilities (such as dogs) at 10 ppb, whereas humans can detect it in concentrations above 10 ppm.

Butyric acid is a fatty acid occurring in the form of esters in animal fats and plant oils.

The acid is an oily colorless liquid that is easily soluble in water, ethanol, and ether, and can be separated from an aqueous phase by saturation with salts such as calcium chloride.

Butyric acid is used in the preparation of various butanoate esters. Low-molecular-weight esters of butyric acid, such as methyl butanoate, have mostly pleasant aromas or tastes. As a consequence, they find use as food and perfume additives. They are also used in organic laboratory courses, to teach the Fischer esterification reaction.


Japan confirmed the later throwing of "Flashbang" grenades onto the Sea Shepherd ship, MV Steve Irwin by their whaling ship, Nisshin Maru.

Flash Bang or Stun grenades- are used to confuse, disorient, or distract a potential threat. A stun grenade can seriously degrade the combat effectiveness of affected personnel for up to a minute. The best known example is the M84 stun grenade, which produces a blinding (6-8 million Candela) flash and deafening (170-180 dB SPL) blast. This grenade can be used to incapacitate people, generally without causing serious injury.

The flash of light momentarily activates all photosensitive cells in the retina, making vision impossible for approximately five seconds until the eye restores the retina to its original, unstimulated state. Subjects affected by flashbangs describe seeing a single frame for the five seconds (as if their vision was "paused") until it fades and normal sight returns

The incredibly loud blast emitted by the grenade contributes to its incapacitating properties by disturbing the fluid in the semicircular canals of the ear.

When detonated, the fuse/grenade body assembly remains intact and produces no fragmentation. The body is a steel hexagonal tube with holes along the sides which allow a blast of light and sound to be emitted. This is done to prevent injury from shrapnel but it is still possible to receive a burn, and injuries resulting from the concussive properties of the detonation sometimes occur, the intense heat created by the flashbang can also ignite flammable materials such as fuel or certain fabrics. The fires that occurred during the Iranian Embassy Siege in London were caused by stun grenades.


Japan also confirmed firing a "warning shot" into the air. The captain of the Steve Irwin, Paul Watson claimed that he was hit by a bullet that the Japanese had fired.


Just a bit of info. Do with it what you will.



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 07:03 AM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Wow, you talk about these self proclaimed protectors of the whales as if they are heros while they damage private property, using prop snares, ramming, and illegal bording of japanese ships. You say protect the whales because they are endangered and the evil japanese continue to kill them. There was a time when whaling was legal and these whales were abondant. So what will you do when the Dingo population has been murdered down to the same numbers, will you then decide to protect them as well or do their lives carry less meaning then you all precious whales? Or will you continue your1080 drops until they are all gone and left to rot? I always love a good double standard, you seem to have one of the best I've seen in awhile. For those who dont know 1080 is a poision used in arial drops used to send dingos to a long drawn out and painful death. One of these baited drop targets was the Kosciusko national park a home to the last 100 pure alpine dingos ( That sounds pretty endagered to me)
Bottom line you people who love to point fingers at others need to take a look in the mirror once in awhile.


I think any responsible government would want to protect endangered species regardless of what species that is.



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 09:35 AM
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I posted earlier on pg. 4 and have been keeping up on this thread. I've been holding my tongue until I got caught up with the rest of you. Lo and behold I couldn't have said better than what "Gormly" and above all, what our "Anonymous ATSer" above had to say. One other thought though is the fact that the Steve Irwin said it was trying to block the retrival of a harvested whale. I don't see this point. What is the agenda of the Steve Irwin by doing this? To start more propaganda by saying it was a useless kill? The Steve Irwin's tactics are pure and simple illegal by any law period.



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by eonpeon
The Japanese, however, like this, because they believe that an animal that suffers terror and pain before death tastes better.



WTF?????

Hey, mods -

I was noticing that hate speech banner you had running for a few days. Either get eonpeon to back that with primary sources (in Japanese, thank you very much) or give him/her a red flag for hate speech. That comment is atrocious.



[edit on 14-2-2009 by vox2442]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 07:56 AM
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Here's an interesting bit of info.


Junichi Sato's face clenched when he recalled opening the reeking box of whale meat -- all 50 pounds of it.
"At first we thought it was someone's dismembered body," Sato said. "It was quite depressing."
He and fellow Greenpeace activist Toru Suzuki had tracked the package to a mail depot in northern Japan after tipsters told them it contained whale meat bound for the country's black market, smuggled by crew members of a ship commissioned to kill the mammals for scientific research, not profit.

But when they held a cameras-flashing news conference last spring to turn the meat over to police, the officers instead arrested the activists for trespass and theft.
That put them at the center of a bitter face-off between environmentalists and the Japanese government, which many believe wants to severely punish the pair as a warning to citizens who question the country's controversial whaling policy.



It also is a rare occurrence of Japanese taking the lead in protesting their government's environmental policies. In a culture where demonstrations are rare and a premium is put on polite public discourse, Sato and Suzuki's actions have raised eyebrows.



Although commercial whaling was banned in 1986, Japan is permitted to kill the animals for "lethal research" on their migratory and other habits in anticipation of a return to sustainable commercial hunts. Norway and Iceland also cull a limited number of whales each year.



Japan has hunted whales for centuries, and officials say the culls are a part of the national identity. But consumption of the meat, once a staple of the country's diet, is now restricted to a few upscale restaurants and coastal whaling villages.

Cultural identity...hmmm that's interesting. Cultural identity and scientific research are 2 different reasons for whaling, aren't they?


The whaling issue has strained relations between Japan and allies such as New Zealand and Australia, which have publicly expressed displeasure with the annual hunt. Britain has hinted that it might take the matter to the United Nations.

My god I hope someone gets off the @sses and does something.

source
www.latimes.com...



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 08:19 AM
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Love to watch the Sea Shepard on the tele.

I love mother earth.....and I would gladly eat whale.....if we had alot of them swimming about the ocean that we use as a cess pool and toxic waste dump.

After all I eat beef....another mammal. As well as Octupus...a smarter animal then a cow. but I may no longer eat Octupus after watching a video of a Korean guy eating a live octupus.

I believe the problem is perception as cited earlier.

The problem is that we want to view ourselves as innocent, loving, ner do harm beings...we are the opposite...and this means each human in this world.

We have cognitive disonance. Each of you as well as myself are guilty.

We ask how can people do such things like kill cute smart Shamo's and such...and then eat them.

We can ask why our nieghbour is hungry and how that family ended up homeless etc...or How can we allow whales to be killed and eaten in this day and age.

The simple truth is that the earth is full of factories killing living things all day long......chickens, salmon, beef, sheep, geese, trout, people. lol

PS When undergoing a budget for any large construction project the cost of "how many deaths" is factored into the project. Don't know if any of you have worked in large projects but this is one of the "cost" factors.lol



[edit on 15-2-2009 by whiteraven]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 01:41 PM
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My opinion

Just becuase people dislike something doesn't mean it's evil or shouldn't be done.

Japanese like to eat whales and I don't care if they say it's for scientific purposes, eating or possibly both but I don't see a problem with it.

Whats good for you is not always good for me.

People should mind their own business!!! theres been a bit too much of this were better than your country crap coming from everyone lately.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 04:06 PM
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jfj123.

Your facts about Butyric Acid are only half the story. The CDC site linked right at the bottom of your own wiki reference tells the other half.

Butyric Acid symptoms:
Sore throat. Cough. Burning sensation. Shortness of breath. Laboured breathing. Blisters. Skin burns. Severe deep burns. Loss of vision. Burning sensation. Abdominal pain. Shock or collapse

The substance is harmful to aquatic organisms.

www.cdc.gov...

Looks like Butyric Acid, isn't the harmless rancid butter, you and Paul Watson would make it out to be.

I wonder why Watson would hide the fact that his weapon of choice does all this permanent damage to humans and ocean life?

Butyric Acid damage is PERMANENT
Flashbang effects are TEMPORARY

Trying to compare the two is ridiculous. Paul Watsons Butyric Acid, is the far more damaging weapon. It even damages the whales he's trying to save. That is the ultimate hypocrisy.
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BTW, I noticed jfj123. You didn't provide the most interesting wiki link, that of Paul Watson himself.

Persona non grata in Iceland for disabling ships in harbor.

Disrespecting the Makah Tribe of WA state, disrupting native whaling.

Encouraging activists to make up facts and figures and deliver them "confidently" to the press. "as Ronald Reagan did" detailed in his book
"Earthforce!" by Paul Watson

en.wikipedia.org...

Watsons word has no value. He purposefully only tells half the story to gain undeserved sympathy.

Claims he didn't ram the Japanese ships, yet his ships are set up as ramming vessels with "can openers" (hull cutter) and hardened bows.

Claims he split from Greenpeace when he was really expelled.

Claims his Butyric Acid is just "rancid butter". Yet he hides the fact that it causes permanent damage, including BLINDNESS and BURNS.

He claims that the Japanese are cruel, yet he's fully prepared to disfigure Japanese sailors with burns and permanently blind them.

On the ocean either condition could easily lead to a Japanese sailors death, especially with the Steve Irwin vessel ramming them unexpectedly.
It's not difficult to imagine how a Japanese sailor would be blinded then knocked into the water with a ship ramming. Perhaps crushed between the vessels.

The whole bullet incident has been addressed well enough by others. Paul Watson was not shot by the Japanese.
Paul Watson is just taking a page out of his own book "Earthforce!" and making things up to tell the press.

Your LA times source is also incorrect on some accounts, most notably this.

But consumption of the meat, once a staple of the country's diet, is now restricted to a few upscale restaurants and coastal whaling villages.

This is untrue, you can find whale meat in many places in Japan. School lunches for one. Just about any seafood market, or grocery stores in general. I know this, having actually been there.
----------
Just a little light reading on Paul Watson and Sea Sheperds financial dealings. After all, Denying Ignorance means being informed.

www.canadafreepress.com...

a search of Monroe County, Florida (Marathon, Key West) records show that Sea Shepherd sold a "Single Family Home" at 5 Crane Blvd., Sugarloaf Key, FL for $850,000 on June 2, 1999. A mapquest and 1999 satellite photo search find no structures at this location.

In April of 1999 the Sea Shepherd Society received a donation of a "Key West Home and Land" in Florida which the Society claimed was valued at $329,500. They re-sold this property less than 2 months later for $850,000 yet claimed an overall loss on the transaction of more than $265,000 due to related costs.
----------

"There's nothing wrong with being a terrorist, as long as you win. Then you write the history." - Paul Watson quoted by The Oregonian.

He said this shortly after 9/11 by the way.

www.objectivistcenter.org...

Sickening.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by Miishgoos

People should mind their own business!!! theres been a bit too much of this were better than your country crap coming from everyone lately.


Yes we should mind our own business as species are wiped out of existence.
We should mind our own business as our planet heats up.
We should mind our business when people are starving to death.
We should mind our own business when it comes to genocide.
We should mind our own business when girls who are raped, are put in prison because it's their fault somehow.
We should mind our own business when peaceful people are imprisoned and/or tortured to death for their beliefs.
We should mind our own business when our neighbor beats his wife.

Yes there's entirely too much of this we're better then you crap coming from everyone lately so we should all just mind our own business. Yeah, that'll work.
Maybe we've all minded our own business too long !



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 04:41 PM
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Just a little something but the people here saying that 'The Japanese have to eat too' and talking about 'sustainable harvest' clearly have not done their research, sure some in Japan eat whale but its mainly a regional thing, not a large region at that and is generally dieing out with the older generation. Its not available in every sushi restaurant in the land. The fact is the Japanese have tonnes of frozen whale meat from years ago in cold storage because they just cant get rid of it. That is why it is being sold at dirt cheap prices. Its goverment policy that it be served as school lunches not the choice of the families or even the school. Plus at what point do the Japanese ever say they are hunting whales for food, they are not its for scientific research because if they said it was for food then thats when the serious penalties could be implemented.
Also there was something else to way back in this thread about 'see what happens if the Sea Shepard ever goes into Japanese waters' well they do almost yearly along with greenpeace and others while the whaleling ships are back in dock for the close season to continue their protest and try and bring awareness to the people.

[edit on 15-2-2009 by pazcat]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 05:29 PM
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There is so much more i could go on about here its ridiculous, its seems many are missing the point here when its staring them in the face, this is not about a food source or if it is right to eat a whale.


[edit on 15-2-2009 by pazcat]



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