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Sea Shepherd Protesters Ram Japanese Whalers in Intense Clash

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posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by Kryties
 


I cannot agree with you more, the RAN should be out there sinking their whaling ships, and if it comes to a fishing war, so be it, they have been nuked twice, so a couple more shouldnt worry them.




posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by Leto

We are sentient, whales aren't.


en.wikipedia.org...


In the philosophy of animal rights, sentience entails the ability to experience pleasure and pain. Animal rights advocates argue that anything that can suffer is sentient and that anything sentient is deserving of rights.

--

So you're saying a Whale feels absolutely nothing when harpooned and dragged and skinned and gutted alive...

Hmm, I'm thinking you have no idea as to what you're talking about (with all due respect), but maybe you should at least figure out what those words mean before you try using them in your arguement.

--

Oh and i'll tip my hat to the protestors. At least SOME ONE is trying to save the whales. Good karma to them.



[edit on 7-2-2009 by mr-lizard]



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by Leto
I'm an atheist.


That explains why you have Data as your avatar and this as your signature. "Ugly bags of mostly water"

You don't have to believe in God or religion to know you are more than a meat-computer. I highly recommend you listen to my podcast called "My crooked path" it is in my signature. I do not lie and I pass on some personal experience that if you have an open mind and stop listening to the machines propaganda in your mind that talked you into believing you are nothing but a biological machine you may learn something wonderful. No religion, just a few of my experiences that most will never have.

The way of the old world led by heartless greed is in its death throws, you have to feel it by now. Be ready to grow with the new world.

[edit on 7-2-2009 by LoneGunMan]



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by LoneGunMan
 


I'm an atheist, but i believe in 100% respect for every soul on this planet.
I believe that every creature has a right to live without suffering and just because us humans have evolved into complex beings, does not mean we should trample over everything 'below' us.

I believe that we should try and live in some form of harmony, to at least get us closer to the lost harmonics of our nature.

I value nature as the true complexity of the universe and i ask don't let one atheists opinion taint every other atheist with the same brush.


one Love



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 12:45 AM
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I didn't consider myself an environmentalist until I hit college. But for anyone who doesn't know what a keystone species is, it is a species which has a disproportionate affect on its ecosystem in terms of its population. Whales are exactly that. Killing off keystone species is the quickest way to killing off the earth.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 01:49 AM
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reply to post by Kalrana
 



So your answer to my question after all that dribble is ......

YOU DON'T HAVE ONE

What a surprise for someone who just keeps quoting "facts" but cant seem to string together a thought process.

Your only comeback now is ....

" You can not PROVE things will go bad .. blah blah blah.... "

Over your brilliant .....

" Lets open up the whaling and see what happens , lets hold hands and hope for the best la la la "

For people with a level head consider this...

(1) These animals are not being farmed , zero effort is put in by the Japanese to increase numbers. ( after years of "research" no breeding program )

(2) Whale meat is not a necessity or holds up any economy , it is a luxury item.

(3) Blanket bans on things like Ivory has been PROVEN to be the only way to try and inhibit trade in the past. You simply cant have a partial ban and it be fair and work.

(4) The fishery industry has a terrible history of ignoring quotas , overfishing is still an issue on many species right today, and Asian countries still actually promote cutting the fins off sharks and then throwing the rests overboard , still alive.

You give people like Kalrana an inch and they will take a mile , as something is "missing up top" to stop them. You have seen on this board they will argue till they are blue in the face it is their "right" to kill anything they want.

In my opinion they are as bad as those hippies who say we should never eat meat . So you put them in the "crazy basket". No compromising with a crazy person trust me.

THINK don't FEEL.......

I believe the numbers need to sustainably improve , the global fisheries industry to be policed properly , develop more accurate/humane ways of hunting whales and a breeding program developed before ANY hunting be allowed to resume.

There must be middle ground between arrogant hunter and hippy , yes we have always been hunters but that does not mean we need to carry on like cavemen.

[edit on 8-2-2009 by thedeadtruth]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 03:28 AM
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posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 03:51 AM
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posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 05:12 AM
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Originally posted by Leto


The video shows the whaler ship going straight and the protester's ship ramming into them:
www.youtube.com...


But if you'll notice, the video came from the other japanese vessel right in front of the Steve Irwin. To me it looks like this was an avoidance move as opposed to a deliberate ram. Ramming another vessel at sea would be highly dangerous for the Irwin as they really have no support. And frankly, it would be safer to side swipe one vessel then to directly ram the aft of another.

You can see the water hose hitting the Erwin from very close range.

Good video though !
Thanks for posting it !



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 05:17 AM
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Originally posted by ts117

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
reply to post by Leto
 


And WHY AREN'T THEY? What makes humans any more of an important life form? Because YOU (and other posters on this thread) say so? What a crock of crap. These creatures bother NO ONE, unlike humans, who are the most DESTRUCTIVE force on earth. Justifying their slaughter is DISGUSTING.



Today, no one sheds a tear for the dodo, the wooly mammoth, or the passenger pigeon,


Simply not true. Geneticists are discussing whether to bring these extinct species back or not. Currently, at least for 7 minutes, scientists brought back the extinct Ibex.
www.telegraph.co.uk...



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by treemanx
You know whats really lacking in this thread???

Common sense. The fact is, most of the people posting here are coming from two polar opposite extremes here.

Half are saying, " Dont kill the whales, we should leave sea dwelling creatures alone so they can support our ecosystem!"

The other half are saying, " Who cares about the whales? What do they really do for us, just let the Japanese kill them and get their dinner!"

What ever happened to a rational balanced discussion? The truth here lies between these two perspectives.

First, there are obvious consequences to killing off these whales. But what is being missed here is a proper and legal enforced regulation of the fishing for these creatures. Anything done in excess is usually not good. So if the Japanese found a loophole, create new laws that regulate them, so as to ensure they are not taking too much.

But mainly, the point of my post is this.. CIVILITY AND DECORUM. Lets treat eachother with some respect while we discuss these important topics. Threads like these seem like a pack of rabid dogs fighting over a scrap of meat.



Based on what you've just said, I think we should just get real here =D.

Final Verdict:

Humans will exploit this planet till it cannot support humans anymore.




I suggest the Japanese use gunboats against the Sea Sheperd so that it, in return, can use G-G missiles against the japanese.

THen the alliance will break apart, japanese economy will die, then China can go in and finish the japanese off since they longed for this opportunity =D.

I personally don't like this radical Waston dude, but I hate the Japan for being so damn proud of breaking international law. But I guess they always have been since WWII when they killed like 30-40 million Asians. Ask a Japanese about WWII, most likely, they'll defend what they did.

Or we can give all the animals bazookas and lasers so that they might have a chance.




[edit on 2/8/2009 by die_another_day]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 12:03 PM
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Who are the one's being violent here?

At 1800 Hours the harpoon vessels Yushin Maru No. 1 and the Yushin Maru No.3 decided to run the Sea Shepherd blockade to transfer two dead whales to the flensing deck of the Nisshin Maru. The Sea Shepherd ship Steve Irwin was blocking the slipway to prevent the transfer in order to shut down the illegal Japanese whaling operations.

As the Nisshin Maru attempted to hook onto the dead whale, the Steve Irwin and the Yushin Maru No.3 collided with the forward starboard side of the Steve Irwin and the port stern side of the harpoon vessel coming together.

"We told them to not continue their illegal whaling operations and that we would be blocking the stern slipway of the factory ship," said Captain Paul Watson. "They decided to test our resolve and apparently expected us to retreat when they charged in ahead of us to make the transfer."

Captain Watson said that the Steve Irwin became difficult to control under a barrage of metal objects, blasts from the water cannons, and the disorientation caused by the LRAD acoustic weapons that the whalers were using on the conservationists.

"I was dazed by the sonic blasts being used on us at close range." said Captain Watson. "I have to admit it was difficult to concentrate with that devise being focused on us."



"I wish we did not have to be down here in this dangerous situation," said Captain Watson. "I've said repeatedly that if Australia or New Zealand would agree to take Japan to the international court on this than we would back off. Because international law is not being enforced, we have no choice but to do what we can with the resources available to us to defend these endangered whales in this established international whale sanctuary."

Any reasonable person must admire this guy for being so dedicated to helping the helpless.


Despite repeated assaults by frustrated and increasingly violent Japanese whalers, the Sea Shepherd ship Steve Irwin continues to stand guard behind the Japanese floating abattoir called the Nisshin Maru. The three Japanese harpoon boats are not in the area but the Sea Shepherd crew is prepared to obstruct them should they return.

The Japanese have been accusing Sea Shepherd of trying to obstruct their props with ropes yet the whalers have been trying to do the same thing to the Sea Shepherd ship Steve Irwin. They are accusing the Sea Shepherd crew of throwing rotten butter (which the Japanese refer to as "acid") at them yet the whalers are throwing golf balls and chunks of metal at the Steve Irwin crew. In addition, the Japanese are blasting the Sea Shepherd crew with water cannons and Long Range Acoustical weapons - a sonic gun that causes disorientation, nausea and deafness.

The reality is that these japanese killing boats are not there for science but to feed the elite portion of society who can afford various whale dishes. Come on, isn't it time to draw a line somewhere?
How many species are we going to wipe out before we realize what we're doing?


[edit on 8-2-2009 by jfj123]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by Leto

We are sentient, whales aren't.


en.wikipedia.org...


In the philosophy of animal rights, sentience entails the ability to experience pleasure and pain. Animal rights advocates argue that anything that can suffer is sentient and that anything sentient is deserving of rights.

--


Yes animal activists would like sentience to mean the ability to feel pain or pleasure but read the rest of that article, everyone else defines sentience as something much more difficult to achieve. In my view the only living things in this planet that are sentient are us and some primate species.


Originally posted by mr-lizard
So you're saying a Whale feels absolutely nothing when harpooned and dragged and skinned and gutted alive...



Of course they feel pain, and they also have the ability to feel pleasure but as I noted above this is irrelevant. Most animal species can feel pain and pleasure.


Originally posted by mr-lizard
Oh and i'll tip my hat to the protestors. At least SOME ONE is trying to save the whales. Good karma to them.



Save the whales from what? As I and others have pointed out in this thread these whales are in no immediate danger of extinction. Someone else posted numbers showing that even if the Japanese doubled their rate of their yearly whale hunting in the Southern Ocean these whales would still be no where near immediate danger of extinction.



[edit on 8-2-2009 by Leto]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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(1) These animals are not being farmed , zero effort is put in by the Japanese to increase numbers. ( after years of "research" no breeding program ) -thedeadtruth (all numbered items)
Whale farms are not a realistic idea. Even Greenpeace agrees with that. Also, not farming them does not mean that there is no conservation effort.
The Japanese have been whaling for approx 1500 years or more, they still have healthy populations of whales in Japanese waters.
How? They have always practiced sustained harvesting. The current low whale populations are the fault of nations like the US and Europe who whaled willy-nilly for centuries.

(2) Whale meat is not a necessity or holds up any economy , it is a luxury item.
Firstly, no it is not a luxury item, it is a staple food, something they put in school lunches and sell at markets inexpensively. It might seem luxurious if your from a "beef and chicken" country.

(3) Blanket bans on things like Ivory has been PROVEN to be the only way to try and inhibit trade in the past. You simply cant have a partial ban and it be fair and work.
Japan was set and ready to accept the IWC ban on whaling, on the condition that they could keep fishing in Alaskan waters. The US agreed to this and then cheated Japan anyways and banned them from US waters AFTER Japan had agreed to stop whaling. Japan promptly started it's whaling research program in response.
I wouldn't keep my end of the deal either in such circumstances.

(4) The fishery industry has a terrible history of ignoring quotas , overfishing is still an issue on many species right today, and Asian countries still actually promote cutting the fins off sharks and then throwing the rests overboard , still alive.
In Japan they do not do this, they harvest as much of the shark as possible.

But if you'll notice, the video came from the other japanese vessel right in front of the Steve Irwin. To me it looks like this was an avoidance move as opposed to a deliberate ram. Ramming another vessel at sea would be highly dangerous for the Irwin as they really have no support. And frankly, it would be safer to side swipe one vessel then to directly ram the aft of another. You can see the water hose hitting the Erwin from very close range. -jfj123
It doesn't matter what the Japanese vessels did, the Steve Irwin had no business getting between the two vessels in the first place. There are specific laws that prohibit a ship from approaching vessels that are "at work". The Steve Irwin was ramming them while they were trying to pull in a whale. The video clearly shows the Steve Irwin gaining speed and ramming the Japanese ship. If they really wanted to avoid a hit, the Steve Irwin should have slowed down and turned port.

As far as the water hose, the Japanese sailors have every right to protect themselves from a pirate vessel. They were obviously trying to discourage the Steve Irwin from closing in. Legally they could have discouraged him with guns...think about that.

Did you see the videos showing the Steve Irwin crew throwing butyric acid on the Japanese vessels? Butyric acid has been proven to harm sealife.
That's right, your cap'n paul purposely puts sealife in danger by throwing butyric acid.

but I hate the Japan for being so damn proud of breaking international law. But I guess they always have been since WWII when they killed like 30-40 million Asians. -die_another_day
They are not breaking international law, the ban on whaling is entirely VOLUNTARY. Any nation is free to comply or not, it is not a law. The only people involved who are breaking international law, are the Steve Irwin crew.

Also, your ignorance of WW2 death tolls is shocking. The ENTIRE allied loss is estimated at 48 million this includes civilians. By your own numbers, you are trying to say that Japan killed 3 or 4 out of 5 people in WW2. Sorry, that just didn't happen.

Why even bring up WW2 in a topic about whales anyways?

Deny Ignorance.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by Leto
 


Just curious. Do you think we need to hunt whales? If so why? If not why?

Thanks.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


No it was a deliberate ram , trying to push the rear of the whaler around and force it to lose speed/direction.

I would love our Navy to go down and give them a real scare. I still know some blokes in there from my days and they are more than willing to help.

But our goverment are too pussy.



[edit on 8-2-2009 by thedeadtruth]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 08:39 PM
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ok now i am getting confused. i believe i do have a mastery of the english language as having spoken it for close to 40 years.
so my point is some posts say they gut the whales alive and then another says they tried to ram the boat before they could get the dead whale on board. so are they alive or dead? which is it?



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 02:53 AM
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Originally posted by jfj123
reply to post by Leto
 


Just curious. Do you think we need to hunt whales? If so why? If not why?

Thanks.


Do we need to hunt cows and chickens? No we could probably survive on a simple bland diet of plants. Do we like to eat beef and chicken? Definitely, so we eat them. Japanese like the taste of whale, so they eat them.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 06:18 AM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS

But if you'll notice, the video came from the other japanese vessel right in front of the Steve Irwin. To me it looks like this was an avoidance move as opposed to a deliberate ram. Ramming another vessel at sea would be highly dangerous for the Irwin as they really have no support. And frankly, it would be safer to side swipe one vessel then to directly ram the aft of another. You can see the water hose hitting the Erwin from very close range. -jfj123


It doesn't matter what the Japanese vessels did, the Steve Irwin had no business getting between the two vessels in the first place. There are specific laws that prohibit a ship from approaching vessels that are "at work".

There are specific laws against illegal whaling which the japanese fleet were/are doing. You could consider the Irwin the equivalent of a citizens arrest or at least an involved citizen. If you saw a crime taking place and you could do something to stop it, wouldn't you? Or are you the type of person that would just walk away and not get involved?


The Steve Irwin was ramming them while they were trying to pull in a whale. The video clearly shows the Steve Irwin gaining speed and ramming the Japanese ship. If they really wanted to avoid a hit, the Steve Irwin should have slowed down and turned port.

The Irwin was trying to block the ships from pulling up whales. The intent was not to ram.


As far as the water hose, the Japanese sailors have every right to protect themselves from a pirate vessel.

Actually, the japanese vessels are the pirates. That's like saying criminals fleeing a crime have the right to shoot at someone trying to capture them.


They were obviously trying to discourage the Steve Irwin from closing in. Legally they could have discouraged him with guns...think about that.

Since the japanese were committing a crime and using force while doing so....well you should get the idea.


Did you see the videos showing the Steve Irwin crew throwing butyric acid on the Japanese vessels? Butyric acid has been proven to harm sealife.
That's right, your cap'n paul purposely puts sealife in danger by throwing butyric acid.

They weren't throwing it at sea life. They were throwing it at the illegal japanese whaling fleet to try and shut them down.
Bullets are bad for people but cops use them to stop criminals sometimes.


but I hate the Japan for being so damn proud of breaking international law. But I guess they always have been since WWII when they killed like 30-40 million Asians. -die_another_day
They are not breaking international law, the ban on whaling is entirely VOLUNTARY. Any nation is free to comply or not, it is not a law. The only people involved who are breaking international law, are the Steve Irwin crew.

My understanding is that they have signed an international treaty which is in effect an international law.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 06:21 AM
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Originally posted by bigfoot1212
ok now i am getting confused. i believe i do have a mastery of the english language as having spoken it for close to 40 years.
so my point is some posts say they gut the whales alive and then another says they tried to ram the boat before they could get the dead whale on board. so are they alive or dead? which is it?


I would think that it depends where the harpoon hits, don't you?

A hit to the brain and lights out.

A hit to another area of the body and the whales could very well be alive when pulled up.

I honestly don't think they're alive every time or dead every time they're hauled up so it's not a black and white issue.



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