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'There definitely is a God': Christians hit back at atheist buses with own adverts

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posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God


Certainly it is, I've verified it. If someone else hasn't verified it then it does not make it unverifiable.


Believe what you want I guess. You have yet to present anything to examine.

As a word of warning, what you're describing sounds like a case of apophenia.


Why are you looking to me to convince you? This isn't my role. Ask God to convince you.


You have made the claim. The burden of proof is on you.

Asking imaginary beings to validate their existence is futile.




posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God

No arguments here. I'm a big fan of absolute truth myself and is a primary reason why I stand behind ATS's slogan "Deny Ignorance".


Ha, that is a laughable statement.

If you stood by absolute truth you would be able to admit there is no scientific proof or verifiable data that supports there is a God. But you do deny ignorance... since ignorance is simply the absence of knowledge and stupidity is when you are confronted with knowledge or data or facts (or lack there of, in this case it would be the fact you can not prove empirically that a God exists) and you choose to ignore them.

It's pretty apparent which one you fall into.

I am all for the freedom of religion, but I am against any religion claiming they know the answer to something you simply can not prove.

You may have reasons you BELIEVE it is true, but you do not have data that can be scientifically tested. You're allowed to BELIEVE whatever you like, but do not claim it is "definitely" the truth when it definitely isn't even possible to prove. That is my issue with both your stance on religion and this add stating there DEFINITELY is a God.

Me? I don't know that there is or isn't... but maybe before I take the big dirt nap we will make the advances in science and technology to prove one way or the other. Until then... QUIT PRETENDING TO KNOW THE ANSWER.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by GeeGee
 



You have made the claim. The burden of proof is on you. Asking imaginary beings to validate their existence is futile.

I gotta say, I'm a Christian Mystic. My spiritual path started off as having faith and believing.

Then after a year or so I started experiencing and knowing God first hand subjectively ....and also I argue objectively because others saw the changes in my personality and my ego death experiences.

Also objectively because others who undertake the path, also eventually come to a place where they are also experiencing God directly, i.e. Objectivity.

If you do not have this experience, its just that you haven't genuinely looked. God is beyond logic and reason, and so the spiritual path as prescribed by Jesus, uses Love, forgiveness, and grace to circumvent logic and reason so that you transcend everything to finally experience God.

For me, there is no other reality as true and as real as God is. I would be willing to bet my house, my life, my wife, and the lives of my whole family that God is 100% real.

Are you willing to wager the same that God isn't real? Can you be as sure with your wager as I am with mine?

That's the ultimate question you have to ask yourself.

I know God is real. Those who don't know only speculate



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by dominicus
For me, there is no other reality as true and as real as God is. I would be willing to bet my house, my life, my wife, and the lives of my whole family that God is 100% real.


How can you possibly stake so much on something you cannot prove?

Can you also "walk the walk"? I doubt it.

Your god is not something of this tangible, solid world and could only be proven in spirit and belief of an individual.

Prove it to me.....



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by dominicus
For me, there is no other reality as true and as real as God is. I would be willing to bet my house, my life, my wife, and the lives of my whole family that God is 100% real. Are you willing to wager the same that God isn't real? Can you be as sure with your wager as I am with mine?


Yes, I'm sure that's something to be really proud of - betting the lives of your family that your God is real.

Thank you for reminding us just how dangerous religion can be.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 08:03 PM
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reply to post by dominicus
 

If I said I would sacrifice my eternal life in heaven and choose hell instead to prove to you my extreme faith that your God is imaginary then so be it. I will willingly accept the consequences of my actions, that's more than I can say for most religious people. I am risking an eternity in hell for the truth.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by GeeGee
 



You have made the claim. The burden of proof is on you. Asking imaginary beings to validate their existence is futile.

I gotta say, I'm a Christian Mystic. My spiritual path started off as having faith and believing.

Then after a year or so I started experiencing and knowing God first hand subjectively ....and also I argue objectively because others saw the changes in my personality and my ego death experiences.

Also objectively because others who undertake the path, also eventually come to a place where they are also experiencing God directly, i.e. Objectivity.

If you do not have this experience, its just that you haven't genuinely looked. God is beyond logic and reason, and so the spiritual path as prescribed by Jesus, uses Love, forgiveness, and grace to circumvent logic and reason so that you transcend everything to finally experience God.

For me, there is no other reality as true and as real as God is. I would be willing to bet my house, my life, my wife, and the lives of my whole family that God is 100% real.

Are you willing to wager the same that God isn't real? Can you be as sure with your wager as I am with mine?

That's the ultimate question you have to ask yourself.

I know God is real. Those who don't know only speculate


You do not know God is real. You can not prove it. You merely have had experiences in which you BELIEVE point to the existence of God. You perceive them this way because you wish it to be true. I was raised a Protestant Christian and only when I began questioning and seeking truth did I arrive at the correct conclusion that you simply can not prove it... it is a BELIEF. It is ludicrous to claim you have the answer to life's toughest questions... "Where did we come from" "Why are we here" ... if you had these answers then all humanity would change...yet here we are with thousands of religions and no answers.

It's great that you were able to change your personality through a belief in God. It's nice you found an excuse to change for the better... but the fact of the matter is, some people don't need that. Some people do. That is why I don't have a problem with religion... some people need that extra something to get on with their lives. But I reiterate, not everyone needs a book or a threat of condemnation to live a good life.

I do have a problem when people say they KNOW the answer. It is a cop out when you say "it defies logic and reason." All things we KNOW can be defined by logic, reason, and science. Yet in science they are comfortable with saying there are things they do not understand or there are things they do not know. But they continue to look for those answers. They don't make up a story to answer the tough questions... they keep looking.

It isn't that people haven't "looked" in the right place, it's that they have and there was nothing there. You simply interpret things differently to make sense of what you do not understand rather than say you do not understand.

I am comfortable with saying I don't know and I don't have the answers.... but I'll be darned if I haven't looked.

[edit on 10-2-2009 by ImaNutter]



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by dominicus

If you do not have this experience, its just that you haven't genuinely looked. God is beyond logic and reason, and so the spiritual path as prescribed by Jesus, uses Love, forgiveness, and grace to circumvent logic and reason so that you transcend everything to finally experience God.


I am sorry, but the concepts used in the Bible are the easiest thing to follow, and the concept of God in religious texts is well within human comprehension. Just from reading the Bible, you can tell it was aimed towards a primitive civilization with little understanding of the world, and targeted for a society with very little ethical development.

I don't really understand what you mean by the statement "God is beyond logic & reason." This makes no sense and sounds like a sentence someone who doesn't really know what they're talking about would say. If you meant to say God is in the realm of imagination, I definitely agree.


For me, there is no other reality as true and as real as God is. I would be willing to bet my house, my life, my wife, and the lives of my whole family that God is 100% real.

Are you willing to wager the same that God isn't real? Can you be as sure with your wager as I am with mine?

That's the ultimate question you have to ask yourself.

I know God is real. Those who don't know only speculate


Believe it or not, I too believe God is real. But my definition of God isn't a bearded man sitting on a cloud and keeping track of when we lie, steal, masturbate or have intercourse with someone else's spouse. There is clearly no logic and evidence of this.

I personally believe God is just nature and the totality of all things, which we can clearly see does exist. It does not judge or intervene in human affairs. Some would not call this God, but from my perspective it is. If ancient civilizations substituted their religions with this kind of harmless belief system, thousands of people in history wouldn't have had to of been burned alive, killed in mindless wars, suppressed by religious zealots, etc. Many ancient texts would still exist if it weren't for zealous priests.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by dominicus
I would be willing to bet my house, my life, my wife, and the lives of my whole family that God is 100% real.


I used to work in casino for some time and I can tell you something for certain...

Gambling is a form of ADDICTION.

And so is Jesus



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 10:12 PM
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Hey, I believe in the spiritual world, but I dont believe in the Christian God.

I guess to each his own..

And about it being a tad bit presumptuous... That seems to be how these kinds of people work...correct?



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by Gun Slinger
 


GS, who said the adverts have to proclaim a 'christian' god?

I know, the news says that a bunch of 'christians' simply wanted to state their opinionin response to the 'atheists' adverts....everyone has the right to their opinion...but trying to lump all 'christians' into one barrel is going to cause a fight.

Easier to just back away, slowly, from this one....so many sects, so little time........



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 10:35 PM
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reply to post by 5thElement
 


5th....

For SOME gambling may be an addiction. Winning is certainly addictive, but when you lose....it hurts so much that you simply 'HOPE' that your luck will turn on the next deal of the cards, or roll of the dice.

That is EXACTLY how religion plays on one's emotions....

It's knowing when to walk away, and seek sanity, that is most important.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by converge

Originally posted by bandaidctrl
then i would ask that atheists prove that there is no God to begin with.


If you go by that faulty logic than everything you can't prove must exist. It's not science's job to prove negative claims that have no shred of evidence whatsoever.



You can't get mad at these organization defending their beliefs, just like the atheist began to do.


The atheist ad said "There is probably not a God". The religious ad said "there is definitely a God". Do you see the difference?

When did the religious people confirm God's existence? I'm sorry but the two things are not comparable.


If you take it to the extreme, then yeah I'd agree, everything you can't prove must exist. But we aren't talking in extremes, rather if one group wants to knowingly open up Pandora's Box sobeit, just don't cry when other jump on the bandwagon

But in belief systems where there is a God/dess form present, there is no question as to whether God exists or not, God DEFINITELY exists to those who believe. While I see how atheists proclaiming that there "probaby" is no God is different than saying there "definitely" is one, it would also depend on what your point of view in the matter was.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by karl 12
reply to post by bandaidctrl
 


Have a full read of the thread-its not realy about atheists,its about christians having the audacity to use the word 'definitely' and the distasteful attempt of an organised religion to forcefully impose their opinions on everybody else in a 'factual context'.


But you see, in my opinion, that's just nitpicking, flame me if you want but honestly, what does it matter? If people want to takes things at face value like that so be it, they'll learn sooner or later the truth for themselves. On the other hand, if someone sees one of the advertisements, and decides to make a choice by them self by doing research and learning once again, the truth for themselves! I'm not here to hold anyone's hand so I personally don't take any offense to either advertisement anymore.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by bandaidctrl
If you take it to the extreme, then yeah I'd agree, everything you can't prove must exist. But we aren't talking in extremes, rather if one group wants to knowingly open up Pandora's Box sobeit, just don't cry when other jump on the bandwagon


We aren't talking about extremes? What could be more extreme than to (claim to) know the Creator of the Universe? Or expect that he will talk back, or hear you when you talk to him? Or believe that he is looking out for you? Or believe he has a plan and you are part of it?



But in belief systems where there is a God/dess form present, there is no question as to whether God exists or not, God DEFINITELY exists to those who believe.


What? Believing in something doesn't make it true.

And saying that things people make up, believe in, exist to them is an oxymoron. Of course it exists to them, they believe it exists! But we have a place for those people, and medication as well.



While I see how atheists proclaiming that there "probaby" is no God is different than saying there "definitely" is one, it would also depend on what your point of view in the matter was.


Oh yes, it depends if you are religious zealot or not. If you were analyzing the two claims from a purely rational and logical point of view then you could see the massive difference between the two.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by converge
 


Well then we'd have to agree to disagree, that's the whole point of faith. If you truly experience a personal connection with a God Source, then there is no doubt over it's existence, you're speaking as if all religion has already been proven false.

What I meant by extremes, is taking my statement of atheists proving that God probably doesn't exist as a catapult to say that all things which can't be proven must exist.

The whole point I am trying to make is that to those, for example of the Christian faith, there is no doubt over the existence of God, because they know in their hearts what is true for them. I myself believe in the existence of the Old Gods, I know they're real because I've had extraordinary experiences involving them, to someone like you, I suppose you'd think I was crazy, but in the long run it's what I decide to believe.

Like I said before, you can't open Pandora's Box and expect everything to be fine. If atheists are going to make advertisements showing off what they believe to be true, then these other religious groups should be afforded the same right and I don't think anyone should have a hissy fit about it.

Besides, I don't go off and attack atheists over their lack of belief in God, I respect your view of religion as stuff people make-up but that doesn't change the fact that millions of people around the globe believe in some type of God, and regardless if you think we need medication or not (which is actually a somewhat offensive thing to say), the impact religion has on people is evident throughout the ages.

Anywho.... I feel like this is turning into more of a discussion on whether or not God exists, and there are plenty of threads here that pertain to that particular topic.

edit: added some thoughts



[edit on 11-2-2009 by bandaidctrl]



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by bandaidctrl
If atheists are going to make advertisements showing off what they believe to be true, then these other religious groups should be afforded the same right and I don't think anyone should have a hissy fit about it.


"afforded the same right"


This atheist advertisement was a RESPONSE to an original christian one?

I know this is quite a long thread, but please read the opening post properly.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by nerbot

Originally posted by bandaidctrl
If atheists are going to make advertisements showing off what they believe to be true, then these other religious groups should be afforded the same right and I don't think anyone should have a hissy fit about it.


"afforded the same right"


This atheist advertisement was a RESPONSE to an original christian one?

I know this is quite a long thread, but please read the opening post properly.


I know it wasn't a response to an original christian one, take a look at my other responses too. I'm saying if there are going to be advertisements proclaiming the lack of a God, then why shouldn't there be advertisements for the existence of one as well, that way everyone can make up their own mind about whether they choose to believe in God or not.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by bandaidctrl

I know it wasn't a response to an original christian one,


You sure about that?....


.......I was just keen to counter the religious ads running on public transport, which featured a URL to a website telling non-Christians they would spend "all eternity in torment in hell", burning in "a lake of fire". When I suggested the atheist counter-slogan (now shortened for readability), the response was extremely positive, and hundreds of you pledged your support after the follow-up article.


source: All aboard the Atheist Bus Campaign

I understand your confusion as there are many stories and threads on the subject.

cheers...nerb



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by bandaidctrl
you're speaking as if all religion has already been proven false.


I'm not claiming that all religions have been proven false, because many or most of the claims religions make are untestable at the moment. However, the ones that we have been able to test (age, shape, location of the Earth etc) have been invariably proven false.



What I meant by extremes, is taking my statement of atheists proving that God probably doesn't exist as a catapult to say that all things which can't be proven must exist.


First, the atheist ad isn't proving anything. You can't say something is probably true or not and claim it's proven. Something being proven and (im)probable are two completely different things.

Secondly, that's not the statement I replied to. I replied to your statement that atheist haven't been able to disprove God's existence (post).

And my answer to that remains the same: for something to be disproved there would have to be data, evidence to be evaluated. In the case of God, there is none. It's not science's job to disprove some claim for which there is no evidence. And science doesn't deal with faith, much less take it as a compelling argument for something's existence.



If atheists are going to make advertisements showing off what they believe to be true, then these other religious groups should be afforded the same right and I don't think anyone should have a hissy fit about it.


As I've stated earlier I have no problems with the Christian people making that ad. At most it makes them look childish because they felt they had to respond to the atheist one, but they have that right too.

But let's not compare the two as if they are equally opposite, they are not. If the Christian ad had been "There is probably a God", that would have been equally opposite, but that's not what the ad said.



Besides, I don't go off and attack atheists over their lack of belief in God


Is the atheist ad an attack on your beliefs?



I respect your view of religion as stuff people make-up but that doesn't change the fact that millions of people around the globe believe in some type of God


Up until 500 years ago practically everyone believed the Earth was the center of the Universe. Is that suppose to give the theory more merit? What people believe and what actually is are two different things.

I'm glad that today people can have views, express opinions and do work that contradicts religions and religious beliefs and not be burned at the stake. I believe Giordano Bruno would have liked that too.



regardless if you think we need medication or not (which is actually a somewhat offensive thing to say), the impact religion has on people is evident throughout the ages.


Is it offensive to call kooks and crazies to people who believe in alien visitation? Perhaps, but that never stopped the media of doing that. I wonder what would happen if the media all of a sudden would call religious people crazy...

Religion and religious people have always been treated in an apologetic way, while other people who believe in things which have not too been proven don't. Maybe that's why you get offended, because you are not used to, and religions indoctrinate people with dogmas.

And what impact exactly are you talking about? And please be free to brush over the Inquisition and the Dark Ages in your response.

The social and human aid work (some) religions do, are entirely possible without religion.



Anywho.... I feel like this is turning into more of a discussion on whether or not God exists, and there are plenty of threads here that pertain to that particular topic.


You can blame yourself for that. You were one of the people that brought up the arguments that the atheists haven't disproved God and started the whole debate.

I'm glad, however, that you finally recognize that that's not what this thread, or the discussion, is about. It's about some ads and what they say.




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