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'There definitely is a God': Christians hit back at atheist buses with own adverts

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posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 06:30 AM
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reply to post by The Last Man on Earth
 


oops lol, I read your post a little wrong lol.




posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 06:35 AM
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I might see how much it is to 'advertise' my beliefs on the side of a bus.

Think it'll go something like..

"You are all slaves to the power hungry, and cash greedy corporate elites who want to keep you in servitude for the rest of your lives, Oh and Aliens ARE real by the way and they're here amongst us"

See what that stirs up



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by karl 12
I think they should be made to either prove it or remove it.


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]


I think both sides should get over it and get on with their lives.

Respect one another



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 07:46 AM
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Originally posted by converge
Faith is the belief in things not seen, not proven. Faith is by definition an illogical thing.


When the author of the Letter to the Hebrews wrote:
"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen."

He was not defining faith as an abstract but as present in the lives of the long line of believers he goes on to list in the verses immediately following (Hebrews 11). He was recommending the consolation of the witness of faith given by others, that looking at their lives and what they were willing to do for God was a manifestation of their faith. The evidence of things unseen can be seen, evidently, in the lives of faithful people. A modern example might be Mother Teresa.

In that sense, concrete examples, faith can be abstracted from experience in the same way that "white" can be abstracted from the experience of clouds, snow, swans, moonlight etc. Just as it is hard to show "white" without reference to other things so it is hard to show "faith" without reference to believers. Far from being "illogical" faith is a logical as "white", it is discerend through the logical process of the intellectual capacity to abstract concepts from concrete examples.

The bus ad is nonsense though because it in itself cannot does not manifest faith, its just words.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 07:52 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
As for validity of "definetly-God" campaign - it is as valid as previous one. Science cannot prove that there is a God - but it also cannot disprove it.


Your circular lack of logic baffles me. If it hasn't been proven, you can't say something definitely exists. Period.

The strange thing is, if the atheist ad would have said "there is definitely not a God" you'd have seen the logical flaw in it, but since the Christian ad goes hand in hand with your faith, you claim it has 'validity'.



And since God-idea was here before scientific approach, until proven otherwise it is not misleading to claim that there is God on advertising.


There were many ideas before scientific methods and approach, so what? How does that prove their validity? At most, it proves that when people didn't know anything they believed silly, childish, supernatural things as a way of 'explaining' the unknown.

And if ideas have more merit because of 'seniority' then I guess Zeus has more merit than Jesus and the Christian god(s).



However - a lot of people who do believe in God were hurt. And if something was pointless ,but it hurt people feelings - then its point is to hurt someone.


You see it as pointless, I don't.

Also, just because some people were 'hurt' by the ad, it doesn't mean it was intend to hurt anyone. It could very well mean that there are some people act hurt because they feel attacked when others contest their religious beliefs.



Atheists on the other hand should not be hurt by "pro-God" campaign. Since they do NOT believe, they think that there is no God. And if nobody forces opposed opinions on them - then there is no reason to be offended.


Which atheists are offended by the Christian ad? Personally I find it childish and funny, but I've always felt that regarding religious beliefs.



There were religious crusades, and there were atheist-ones not so long ago.


Hah Now I'm curious. Would you care to point out examples of an "atheist crusades"?



By the way - to think that someone else faith,especially in this matter is childish - is arrogant and ignorant approach.


Thinking something is childish doesn't mean you disrespect it. And I respect the choice that people have to believe in childish things, I just don't take those beliefs seriously.

And saying that there is definitely a God is not arrogant? And thinking that one's beliefs or religion is sacred is not arrogant? And believing the creator of the Universe hears your prayers is not arrogant? When it comes to arrogance, religions have a head start of thousands of years.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 08:07 AM
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You can't get much more childish than this (from both sides)... its turning into a contest of "Yes it is" vs "No it isnt".

Whatever happened to a full, proper spirited debate? I'd like to see a debate between Dawkins and a high ranking member of all the world's religions.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 08:22 AM
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reply to post by converge
 


Excellently and well put converge. There is no definite proof that the christian god exists any more than the islamic god.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 08:35 AM
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reply to post by karl 12
 




How do these christians know for sure since faith is just opinion based on speculation,conjecture,heresay,rumour and guesswork?


John 17 13;19
13 And now come I to you; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that you should take them out of the world, but that you should keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through your truth: your word is truth. 18 As you have sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Believers have been given the gift of the Holy Spirit which guides them into all truth. There are fanatics but they are not of God. They follow scripture through their knowledge of it but are not led by the Spirit.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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The bible is a compilation of man chosen ancient scripts - written by man.

I believe the ancient writings are real events of the Watchers and more evolved beings from elsewhere coming to this planet.

There is no truth "yet" - only belief.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge

As for validity of "definetly-God" campaign - it is as valid as previous one. Science cannot prove that there is a God - but it also cannot disprove it.


Thats why they said "probably." They were honest about what can and cannot be proven.


Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
Once principle of freedom of choice is applied, nothing can prove or disprove existence of God.



Which is why the Christian campaign is dishonest. They cant prove it either, and yet they say definitely.



Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
However - a lot of people who do believe in God were hurt. And if something was pointless ,but it hurt people feelings - then its point is to hurt someone.
Atheists on the other hand should not be hurt by "pro-God" campaign.


Do you know how many of our assumptions as a society are based upon the Christian religion? We all have to deal with those assumptions. You do know that Christianity as it is practiced does hurt people, do you not? We are finally pulling out of that tyranny, but you do understand that for the last 1000+ years in Europe those principles were used to take away the right of females to education, property ownership, and control over whom they married? And still is in some places? And it was less than 100 years ago that we finally got some of those assumptions beaten back enough for us to have just basic rights? Not to mention all the scientists, philosophers and pagans that were either killed for their beliefs or forced to convert. Christianity is holding back stem cell research and people who have hope for those treatments have more than their feelings hurt. The will probably die before we get that religious imposition overturned and get back to the research. My pagan friend has been asked not to wear the symbols of her religion to work because it is so upsetting to the good Christians who need a little ham from the deli she manages. But they can wear all the crosses around their necks they want. Give me a break on the hurt feelings part. Christianity hurts a lot of feelings.

And it is not as simple a matter as "you either do believe in God or you dont." Christians arent just at war with atheists, they have done their very best to wipe out every other God on the planet. This isnt just about the right to believe as you wish and be respected for that. If it were, one would think Christianity as a whole would display that attitude towards other faiths, but it doesnt. It is a very one sided respect that is called for. Respect us and dont be critical, and allow us to destroy your own beliefs.

If God is Omniscient, and All powerful, dont you think God could take care of his own interests? If there is a God such as the one described in the Christian faith, I seem to recall him destroying those who opposed him, turning people into pillars of salt, raining down fire, etc. Dont you think he can fight his own battles? I would think he could.

So I read his utter indifference to bus campaigns by atheists and Christians alike as a sign that God is neither offended by the one, or particularly pleased by the other. After all, he is also not raining mana from heaven down upon those who bought the "God definitely exists" bus ads either.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by Exuberant1
There are better odds that the existence of God will be proven - more so than the odds that his existence will ever be disproven.


Which god- -how do you know god (if god exists at all) is not a she,an it or a they?

Simple answer is noone knows for sure.

One cult/sect's claims completely contradict all the others
and,since theres not one scrap of tangible,cogent evidence for any of it,
all the thousands of different opinions have just as much plausiblity and credibility as one another.

By using the word 'definitely' and abusing their non provable opinion in a 'factual context' these people are guilty of gross misrepresentation.

You wouldn't need to have faith in something if it was a fact would you?



I'm just sayin' ... You can prove that sort of negative ;-)


I don't think its about proving anything -I think its more about religious extremists having the effrontery to engage in active cult recruitment through premeditiated,spurious advertising.

Freedom 'from' relgion is just as important as freedom 'for' it - boldly misrepresenting superstition as reality is dishonest and society should be protected from it.

Many overtly religious people seem to forget that
'tolerance is a two way street' - do you not think society endures enough religious propaganda in the form of preachers,billboards,proselytizing door to door salesmen,TV evangelism,bellringing etc.. ?

Heres an apt quote about bellringing from Ezra Pound:

The act of bellringing is symbolic of all proselytizing religions. It implies the pointless interference with the quiet of other people. ~Ezra Pound


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by converge
 





If it hasn't been proven, you can't say something definitely exists. Period.

Then prove that you (or me) exist and are not just figments of mine (yours) imagination. Not all is absolutely "provable".


The strange thing is, if the atheist ad would have said "there is definitely not a God" you'd have seen the logical flaw in it, but since the Christian ad goes hand in hand with your faith, you claim it has 'validity'.

I claim that it has the same validity as "no-God" ad. Both are pointless, for third time.


There were many ideas before scientific methods and approach, so what?

And in order to disprove them via scientific approach new theories were presented that proved otherwise. Until the same is done about with God - "theory", and it cannot be done because it cannot be proven or disproved, this "theory" is indeed valid. It is circular logic because it is not a simple matter.



Would you care to point out examples of an "atheist crusades"?

Hmm - Communism? Rings a bell? A proper example of what happens when atheism turns into faith (or at least part of a faith) and goes on against new "heretics".



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by nnpkjkrv
 


Yes, its very easy just to post things writted down by men in books.


Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
Epicurus 340 - 270 BCE



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 

Actually i (kind of
) agree on a lot of things you say. Organized religions - all of them - tend to slow down progress of scientific and social development considerably. On the other hand at least they remind people that there is more then a material world. So i am not that convinced that there is an "evil" side and "good" side. Nuclear weapons, if used, can kill much more people and cause more damage to society then all the religions combined ever did. I want to say that religion, just as scientific and other institutes of our society, are tools in hands of humanity. How they play out - is merely result of our design and usage.
Personally i fear that scientifically driven desire for efficiency will eventually terminate all the people. So this compared to not-so-gentle "brainwashing" demanded by religion is pretty intense.
Note - i have no objection to scientific research, the opposite. We just need to remember that it is merely a tool ,created and used by us and for us,not ultimate truth.
Religion is also a tool, created and used by us. how both play out is due to us only.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by salchanra
One, this is a Christian organization who purchased the ad space. Fine, whatever. There are alot of religions in the world who believe in some type of deity, God, Allah, whatever name you want to use.
My question to you on this matter is, since you obviously dont believe in God (which is your right, I wont attack anyone for their religious beliefs) would you be offended if say, the muslims ran an ad that stated, There is definately Allah, or if this ad was paid for by Hindus?


I think if we do not get a grip on what is decently acceptable to advertise in the public arena then we open the floodgates to all manner of extremist agenda and preconceived opinion.

Would you be offended if an advertisement like this went out?



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by karl 12
 


Trinitarian bible society

Russian orthodox church

Both off-shoots as such, make your own mind up, but a little research will go a long way in helping you argue your point.

Half the people following religions dont know where they originate from.

Makes no odds to me, I am unconvinced either way.

Kind regards S_G



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by karl 12

Would you be offended if an advertisement like this went out?


I personally think that is hilarious.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by MyXlog
I agree that this recent christian campaign is False Advertising and I'd like to see how it stood up in Court.


It's not false advertising, it's true. I know it to be true and have obtained my proof. Sorry that you haven't yet, but if anyone would like to sincerely know how to obtain theirs, feel free to U2U me.

[edit on 6-2-2009 by saint4God]



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 02:59 PM
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The only thing that keeps us all from burning at the stake isn't the love of Christians, but the impotence of their love.

Same could be said of the Atheists mind you.




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