It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

'There definitely is a God': Christians hit back at atheist buses with own adverts

page: 10
3
<< 7  8  9    11 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 02:00 PM
link   

Originally posted by converge
God doesn't want money.... he just wants you not to idolize other Gods, be homosexual or work on the Sabbath.



..or touch the holy things; or take accursed things; or curse or blaspheme; or not scream when being raped; or marry when not a virgin; or disobey your father; or be a wizard or a witch or give your kids to the Caananite Owl demon Molech.

As long as you don't do these things, then you won't be stoned to death

www.belowtopsecret.com...



[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]




posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 02:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by 5thElement
God NEEDS money.

Sorry, this information is incorrect.


So, where exactly is the money which supports Christian advertising machine and propaganda coming from, thin air ?


Here is a little reminder what is actually going on (WARNING: adult language ahead, not for those who cry when someone uses alternate word for poop)






posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 02:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by 5thElement

So, where exactly is the money which supports Christian advertising machine and propaganda coming from, thin air ?



Don't forget indulgences, also known as the get-out-of-hell free(not exactly free) card. I am stupified at how people can actually believe this.


Originally posted by karl 12



How do you know it is the god of the bible and not Zeus, Odin, Ra,
Shangdi, Bhagavan, Waheguru, Mithras, Xwida, Tenri-Ō-no-Mikoto ,Ahura Mazda or Osiris?

In fact, what led you to the conclusion that god is a he?
Why not a She, a They or an It?

I'm sure there has been other people in history that were equaly as convinced as you are that 'Sonek the Egyptian Crocodile god' actualy existed.

How do you feel about their convictions?
Would you just mindlessly and unquestioningly beleive what they had to say without critical reasoning ?

Whats the difference with your claim?


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]


I'm glad someone brought this up. What the heck would an all mighty, all powerful omnipotent being need with human genitalia?

Such a being would be beyond need for gender or sexual physical sensations. It is irrational to believe an entity of such majesty would have male or female genitalia, or even human characteristics.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 02:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by converge
Please share with us how that confirmation can be done.


"If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer." - Matthew 21:22


Originally posted by converge
You do realize you need evidence to confirm something?


Certainly.


Originally posted by converge
No matter how much you, or other people, personally believe God exists, there is no evidence whatsoever that he/she/it does, otherwise this debate had long gone been over.


It's because the proof cannot be shared that the debate continues on. Not that there's a lack of evidence.


Originally posted by converge
What we see in fact, on the other hand, is that people less and less believe in a sort of God portrayed in the Bible, or the Bible itself as the word of God.


This is not a fact and I'd be careful making such baseless assertions.


Originally posted by converge
Of course some (fanatics) will probably argue that this is due to the Devil or some other nonsensical 'explanation', which obviously means absolutely nothing because it lacks the same sort of evidence or confirmation as God's own existence.


These 'fanatics' then wouldn't understand the nature of God. Not a crime as far as I know, but can make helping others difficult.


Originally posted by converge
Don't worry about it, some of us are used to hearing religious logical fallacies.


Since I give no fallacies I am therefore not concerned with being redundant.


Originally posted by converge

A newspaper tells you things, it does not 'ask you to trust it'.


Actually it kind of does. That's why all news sources claim or try to appear credible, because it's understood that news reporting should be accurate, and objective; and people wouldn't read/listen/see it if they claimed otherwise.


Very well then, I kind of ask you to trust me
but I also invite you to discover personally, to test everything and hold on to the good.


Originally posted by converge
The difference is that when a newspaper (or any other news media/outlet) tells you something, ultimately, you can verify the veracity of that claim.


As with the case with what I say.


Originally posted by converge
You read in the paper that there is an invasion in some African country. Can you, from your living room, confirm this? I guess it depends on what you consider a credible source for validation.


Touche'. I think that's why you have a wide range of believers from those who have what people here call 'blind faith' to those like me who have to see to believe. Personally it's a stubborn and hard way for me to learn things and though I have less faith because of it, I also have less doubt.


Originally posted by converge
Let's suppose you don't consider any source credible, except your own eyes. Despite this African country being thousands of miles away, numerous timezones apart, ultimately you could go there and see for yourself.


Yes. In the same way ultimately you can go to God and He will have you see for yourself.


Originally posted by converge
Would it cost you money, effort, time? Would it probably be an unsafe task? Definitely. But it could be done, nonetheless. And that's the difference between something you read in the paper, and someone's word that God exists.


You're right, going to God costs no money, no real effort and very little time. It does however require sincerity and sometimes patience.


Originally posted by converge
I've been asking for validation. I'm glad that you are willing to help those who seek [it].


Maybe then my happening here was not as accidental as both of us may have originally thought.


Originally posted by converge
Now, how can you help me get validation of God's existence? What tools do I have to get? What places do I have to travel to? What evidence should I look at?


Feel free to U2U, I don't want to drift too far from bus ads here.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 03:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by karl 12
How do you know it is the god of the bible and not Zeus, Odin, Ra,
Shangdi, Bhagavan, Waheguru, Mithras, Xwida, Tenri-Ō-no-Mikoto ,Ahura Mazda or Osiris?


Good question. Personally I was rooting for Zeus, as I was a big fan of Greek mythology. The answer involves a stupid move on my part, but rather than go through the details about the wrong way to go about it, maybe it would save a lot of time and pain trying the right way first. Seek first the all loving, creator God in the name of Christ. I didn't (nor couldn't) read the Bible to find God, rather God directed me to the Bible. Apparently I was asking a lot of questions that were already in there.


Originally posted by karl 12
In fact, what led you to the conclusion that god is a he?


This is a problem with English, God hasn't a need for a gender. God is too personal to call 'It'.


Originally posted by karl 12
Why not a She, a They or an It?


God can be seen kind of as a 'they' in the same way you say your car would be a 'they'. Though there are parts, the whole makes God.


Originally posted by karl 12
I'm sure there has been other people in history that were equaly as convinced as you are that 'Sonek the Egyptian Crocodile god' actualy existed.

How do you feel about their convictions?


Sonek didn't show up to the party, but all was invited.


Originally posted by karl 12
Would you just mindlessly and unquestioningly beleive what they had to say without critical reasoning ?


Critical reasoning is and should be for everyone, part of their daily life. Of course confirmation and validation should be sought in my perspective, until there is no doubt. The drawback is losing a bit of faith that existed before replaced by confirmation.


Originally posted by karl 12
Whats the difference with your claim?


I suppose you'd have to ask someone who believes in Sonek. My claim is right and true beyond doubt for me, though I know well that this does not mean it holds any value for anyone else. The most I can do is hope or encourage others who require to know for certain to seek out what they need so that they can say, "There definitely is a God".



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 03:04 PM
link   
Multi-post problem, mods previously contacted about issue.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by saint4God]



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 03:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by saint4God
So, where exactly is the money which supports Christian advertising machine and propaganda coming from, thin air ?


Donations. A donation is where people willinging give money to support a cause. No amount of money gets someone in heaven nor have dollars gone up to God.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 03:09 PM
link   
Multi-post problem, mods previously contacted about issue.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by saint4God]



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 03:09 PM
link   
Multi-post problem, mods previously contacted about issue.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by saint4God]



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 03:09 PM
link   
Multi-post problem, mods previously contacted about issue.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by saint4God]



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 03:09 PM
link   
Multi-post problem, mods previously contacted about issue.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by saint4God]



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 03:09 PM
link   
Multi-post problem, mods previously contacted about issue.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by saint4God]



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 03:09 PM
link   
Multi-post problem, mods previously contacted about issue.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by saint4God]



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 03:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by GeeGee
Don't forget indulgences, also known as the get-out-of-hell free(not exactly free) card.


I don't see indulgences found neither Biblically nor ordered by God.


Originally posted by GeeGee
I am stupified at how people can actually believe this.


Many people believe many things. Some with substantiation, some without.


Originally posted by GeeGee
I'm glad someone brought this up. What the heck would an all mighty, all powerful omnipotent being need with human genitalia?


Good point and agreed.



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 12:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by saint4God

I don't see indulgences found neither Biblically nor ordered by God.


Indeed, but churches are still handing out indulgences today. It seems at odds with the message of Jesus.




Many people believe many things. Some with substantiation, some without.


Yes. For example, a book written thousands of years ago that contradicts everything we know and see in the natural world today.


Originally posted by GeeGee

Good point and agreed.


I am a little confused here. Haven't you referred to God as "Him" or "He" throughout the entire thread?



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 12:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by saint4God
"If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer." - Matthew 21:22


Oh here we go, more quoting the fairytale.

You do realize that quoting something written in a book that's been utterly riddled with inconsistencies, and commonly understood to be a fictional story is not going to be considered by the rest of us as meaningful, right?



Well, I issue you a challenge regardless.

You believe right? You would consider yourself to be a "True believer".

And your quote is as such "If you believe, you will receive WHATEVER you ask for in prayer."

This is correct? So far?

Now... if all of this were true... shouldn't you be able to Pray that I develop a belief in god?

Go ahead. You pray to your god that I become a believer.

The Challenge.

You pray to your god that I (Johnsky) become a believer in god as depicted by your religion, and that I become that believer by the end of March 2009 (this month).

The date is so that you can't weasel out of the challenge by claiming it "just hasn't happened yet" for the rest of your life.

The Wager.

1: IF your right, and your god makes me a believer in your god by the end of March because you (a believer) asked for it in prayer (believers get WHATEVER they ask for), then I (Johnsky) will not only acknowledge publicly that your prayer has converted me, but I will also donate 100 hours of my time to whatever church you attend.

or

2: IF I remain Atheist/Agnostic, you (saint4God) will VOW to never to quote the bible again, publicly declaring that you admit the Bible is not worthy of quotation in argument.


I'm up for the challenge.

Are you?



And please, save the excuses...
Your credibility (and to some effect your religions credibility) to me and others reading this is on the line.

Get praying.

[edit on 4-3-2009 by johnsky]



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 08:17 AM
link   

Originally posted by GeeGee
Indeed, but churches are still handing out indulgences today. It seems at odds with the message of Jesus.


I believe the only church that practises this is Catholic, though could be wrong. Having attended Protestant, Presbyterian, Methodist and Baptist churchs, I can say they do not.


Originally posted by GeeGee
Yes. For example, a book written thousands of years ago that contradicts everything we know and see in the natural world today.


Many things that were written long ago no longer stand. Truth however has a way of persisting. Not saying all that persists is true, but rather that which is untrue has a tendency of being forgotten.


Originally posted by GeeGee
I am a little confused here. Haven't you referred to God as "Him" or "He" throughout the entire thread?


I have but only because I don't speak Hebrew:



LORD; GOD = Jehovah (Yahweh; Hebrew YHWH, third person singular noun from the root word, “ehyeh” meaning literally, “self-existent”). This is used as a proper name of God and should have been retained in that form by the translators. The LORD (Yahweh) should read in the KJV and other versions as, “He is” or “He exists”.
www.bibleanswerstand.org...



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 08:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by johnsky
You do realize that quoting something written in a book that's been utterly riddled with inconsistencies,


Such as?


Originally posted by johnsky
and commonly understood to be a fictional story is not going to be considered by the rest of us as meaningful, right?


I'm not concerned with what others consider is fiction. Truth isn't up for a vote. I'm concerned with knowing facts.


Originally posted by johnsky
You believe right? You would consider yourself to be a "True believer".


There is no "true believer". Either you believe or you do not.


Originally posted by johnsky
And your quote is as such "If you believe, you will receive WHATEVER you ask for in prayer."

This is correct? So far?


Yes, bearing mind the whole of what is said, including:

"Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will." - Romans 12:2


Originally posted by johnsky
Now... if all of this were true... shouldn't you be able to Pray that I develop a belief in god?

Go ahead. You pray to your god that I become a believer.


I'd be glad to
and thank you for permissioning me to do so.


Originally posted by johnsky
The Challenge.

You pray to your god that I (Johnsky) become a believer in god as depicted by your religion, and that I become that believer by the end of March 2009 (this month).


Sorry, you're not God, He is. He gets to say when you become a believer.


Originally posted by johnsky
The date is so that you can't weasel out of the challenge by claiming it "just hasn't happened yet" for the rest of your life.

The Wager.

1: IF your right, and your god makes me a believer in your god by the end of March because you (a believer) asked for it in prayer (believers get WHATEVER they ask for), then I (Johnsky) will not only acknowledge publicly that your prayer has converted me, but I will also donate 100 hours of my time to whatever church you attend.


I don't believe you understand how this works. I'll also pray that He shows you what being a believer means. I also would never ask anyone to obligate themselves by way of betting, because working out of obligation doesn't come from the heart. I won't hold you to this bet and say 'no deal', rather when you do believe, I hope you find it in your heart to give this time toward helping others as a way of saying 'thank you' for what Christ has done for as long as you find joy in your spirit to do so.


Originally posted by johnsky
or

2: IF I remain Atheist/Agnostic, you (saint4God) will VOW to never to quote the bible again, publicly declaring that you admit the Bible is not worthy of quotation in argument.


I'm up for the challenge.

Are you?


No, I cannot undo what I was sent by God to do, nor would I want to.

"Above all, my brothers, do not swear—not by heaven or by earth or by anything else. Let your "Yes" be yes, and your "No," no, or you will be condemned." - James 5:12


Originally posted by johnsky
Get praying.


I'm on it, thanks again.

[edit on 4-3-2009 by saint4God]



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 08:43 AM
link   
Why must these talks always devolve into "My God is bigger than your God!"????


Look, this thread is about the bus ads. That's it. It's not a forum for Saint4God to exhort others to prayer... neither is it a forum for the anti's to get caught up in Saint4God's rhetoric.


First off...

1. The ads, were well placed. I thought the Atheist ads were good too, when the one bus driver refused to drive the bus with the Atheist ad on it, I thought he was an idiot... still do. But this is the real proper response from those with a problem... like EA Sports they got to GET IN THE GAME.

2. Does it REALLY matter what others believe? Why do we go back and forth worrying about what people believe? Is it because we don't feel secure in our own beliefs unless there are others like us?

3. Humans are believers.... it doesn't matter if that belief is even thrown back on itself in the form of belief in nothing... we are believers. What is belief? Simply the process of interpreting the external phenomena and categorizing it into relative meaning to our own existence.

4. Belief is powerful, even belief in the completely nonsensical. It has a HUGE effect on the mind and the ability to perform. Don't agree, go read Sun Tzu. The leader with the "moral highground" will have the best chance at victory, regardless of the terrain, the weather, or even the numbers of soldiers... It's not mystical, it's simply fear that causes most to fail.

5. Can we PLEASE get this thread back on track.... and stop recruiting people, one way or the other... We are all SICK OF IT!



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 09:12 AM
link   
reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic
 


I remember reading about someone who sued god after is inssurance refused him payment saying it was : " a act of god ". In this case, the problem is not prooving false advertisement ... it is finding someone or something to pay for damage.



EDIT: some spelling ... my english is slowly getting better

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 4-3-2009 by grandnic]

[edit on 4-3-2009 by grandnic]




top topics



 
3
<< 7  8  9    11 >>

log in

join