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The END of Hate Speech, subtle or otherwise, on ATS

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posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by skeptic1
No one is telling us that we can't express ourselves or our opinions on a topic. They are just telling us that if we can't do it without resorting to:

* Name calling
* Racism
* Bigotry
* Hatred
* Degredation
* Nasty generalizations
* Personal insults towards posters or groups of people
that, then, posting rights will be taken away.


I have spent (wasted) so much time arguing with people who spout exactly what you've just said they shouldn't.....
I always get the "free speech" rubbish or "if i don't like it, i know what i can do" and I'm actually really glad that something has finally been done about this...seriously.

I have always said that "free speech does not equate to bigotry and hateful language/speech" but i usually get attacked (which i don't mind) from many people and told that it is everyone's right to say what they like.
I always thought this site enforced this type of rule and as i said, I'm really glad that this thread has been made and people have been reminded




posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by MoonMine
 


Un-ATS??? Last time I checked, ATS was not the place for us to get our daily dose of hate and racism and bigotry and insults and degrading generalizations of every group of people under the sun.

That is not what ATS is all about and never has been.

This is a place for intelligent debate and discussion. There is nothing "intelligent" about hate and degredation. That falls under the heading of "ignorance".

And, this site's motto is to "Deny Ignorance".



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by Crakeur
1. that's not what he said


That is EXACTLY what was meant, a conspiracy. I though that should have been obvious.



2. stating that the slaughter of millions of people, based on their faith, was actually self perpetrated in order to protect their future generations is insanely twisted.


I am challenging the slaughter of millions, can you not see that?
I do so rationally, without prejudice nor hate.
I cannot believe it is up to YOU to determine what my intentions are, and that you are twisting my comments in such a way as to turn them into hate speech.

You are starting to sound like the departement of homeland security!

If you disagree with my theory, by all means lets debate it in the forum.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by Crakeur
 


i have no issue with hate speech as a concept, i get that, my issue is the subtle thing. it suggests that anything that could possibly be construed as having hatred as it's motive will be considered hate speech.

for instance, i think you subtly suggest that anyone who questions this is a spewer of hate speech, you might have a different opinion, but who's right?



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by Crakeur

if a topic cannot be discussed without comments such as this one:

Originally posted by
The Holocaust is the reason you cannot attack the Jews for whatever reason, what a diabolical way to pre-empt future attacks on your people and ensure a carte-blanche for your offspring.


then it cannot be discussed.


Now see, I would have never in a million years thought that that was hate speech.

I would have considered that an opinion. I dont see anything hateful about that. I think it is wrong to generalize and say a whole group of people use past victimization and the associated guilt people feel for it to escape legitimate criticism. But individual people do indeed use their history of victimization to escape legitimate criticism in the present. Whether related to the holocaust or a bad childhood in an inner city.

Is it the generalization that we are avoiding? Or any suggestion that some Jewish people use the fact of, and guilt over the holocaust to justify their actions in the present?



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


I think that is the example of subtle.

Most people would miss what the poster was trying to say.....that is subtle.

But, if one looks hard enough, the poster is trying to disguise obvious hate by being subtle.

Some people see it as a simple opinion. Others see it as a subtle way of spewing hate.

[edit on 2/5/2009 by skeptic1]



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 04:47 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by MoonMine
No my friend, you are watching the end of free speech on ATS, because any critical theory can be transformed into hate speech.


You most likely missed my reply on page 3, so here is the Gist: Asking you to be polite in your posting, is NOT an infringement of your freedom of speech.

Simple.

- Carrot



[edit on 2/5/2009 by CA_Orot]



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by skeptic1
 


in what way, exactly. this is a site where 90% of the membership think things are not what they seem and thrive on making less than obvious connections.

the suggestion that zionist jew's orchestrated the holocaust or made it up is not necessarily hate speech around here. on nazisoldier.com, probably, ATS.com, only maybe.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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Wha t ever happened to the golden rule.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Perhaps too simplistic in this day and age.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by Springer
 


I 100% agree, it's a very popular TREND to spew hate targeted at specific races & religions, and those who are full of hate seem to think they are justified to hate a specific race and/or religion because of X action, I don't believe there is an action worthy to justify hate, and I would say John Lennon would agree, quoting racist remarks from a person of that actual race does not negate the racism of the remark. Hate begets hate, Love begets love, karma in my opinion does exist, it doesn't work like clockwork like in the show 'my name is earl', but it does work, if you are miserable, see what you are spreading, maybe you need to spread positivity, no matter how surrounded by hate you are there is no excuse that can justify spreading negativity.

[edit on 5-2-2009 by Razimus]



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 04:57 PM
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Frankly: We're not stupid.

One can tell if someone is critisizing "The Holocaust Industry" or critisizing the Rothschild family having funded two sides of a war or whether this someone is using these themes for an overall agenda of race-hatred.

One can tell whether someone is critising the Hamas or following a general anti-muslim agenda.

One can tell whether someone is critising Obama or holds a deep-seated hatred of Blacks.

How can we tell? How can YOU tell? By following that persons posts over a time period.

In my eyes there is no ambiguity whatsoever on this.

Conspiracy-minded researchers should embrace this policy: Machiavellian Conspiracies are always based on divisiveness and promoting fear, hatred and ignorance.

Last but not least: ATS is not for everyone. Its for those who want to discuss heated topics in a civil manner.



[edit on 5-2-2009 by Skyfloating]



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


"what a diabolical way to pre-empt...."


implies that it was planned and perpetrated, by the jews for the reason of protecting future generations.

he's suggesting, contrary to what he's now saying, that the jews planned the holocaust to protect themselves down the road.

go to nagasaki and suggest that the japanese dropped the atomic bomb on themselves. go tell a bunch of armenians there was no armenian holocaust, that they did it to themselves. and so on.

see how that works out for you.

I took ten minutes to come up with the following quotes which show nothing but hatred.




Originally posted by
These Crazy fanatic Muslims throwing tear Gas and eggs at a peaceful Rally. Another event proving that Islam has no tolerance for democracy or any other religion.

1. is it necessary to call them crazy fanatics. does this mean all of islam is like this? no. hate speech


Originally posted by its sad since your Muslim brothers will keep dieing in the hand of the mighty Israeli Army.

2. unnecessary discussion of death at the "hand of the mighty.." adds nothing to the discussion, only fuels hatred.


So vile are these people that they are willing to sacrifice any one and any number of people if there is a profit in it for them, even their own people are not safe from their parasitic greed and lust for money. No you may say this cannot be true, your just anti Jewish, anti semitic.

3. the entire post is railing against jews. this is just a small taste



When I took business class at the UIC I found out
the Jews were the Tax baise and theat why our community was called Jew Town. Later I was taught these same people are call "Jacobites" and they don't worship God they worship materialism.


4. jew town? worshipping materialism?


if the usa is the victim, you will know when the final hour comes: rats are first that run from the ship))
recall exodus of the Jews from the USSR - two revolutions

5. likening jews to rats. lovely.


that will the last from me. if you still don't get it, google evil jews, muslim terrorists and go explore the sites that come up.




[edit on 5-2-2009 by Crakeur]



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by pieman
 


In what way what?

In what way is it subtle? Well, to me, the poster is "hating on the Jews" while trying to look like they are not.

He could have said "Those idiot Jews did this to themselves so that they could rule the world forever and the rest of us can't do anything about it. They are so evil and diabolical that they killed their own people so that their control of the banking systems and the rest of the western world so that they would never be questioned and the rest of the world would have to cater to them forever. It's all a lie. They did it to themselves; we shouldn't feel anything for them.".

But, they didn't. They were subtle about it.

That post and what I wrote say the same thing, basically. Only, mine is much more obvious in the hate where the other post is more clever and subtle with the hate.

.....this was just an example of what "subtle" actually conveys, in my opinion.....



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
Frankly: We're not stupid.

[edit on 5-2-2009 by Skyfloating]


Speak for yourself i know what i am



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by pieman
 


That guy in Crakeurs example did not even seem to be saying it was made up or orchestrated. (Which I might add is exactly what the 9-11 conspiracies accuse the US government of doing.)

He just seems to be saying that the FACT that the holocaust happened at all, regardless who caused it, was used to induce guilt that was then used to deflect criticism over current behaviors. He used the word "diabolical" and maybe that was inflammatory, and he generalized it over the who group of people who are Jewish, when he shouldnt have. You can never legitimately generalized to a whole ethnic group that sort of behavior.

But the statement itself was not untrue. It just doesnt only apply to Jewish people or all Jewish people. Some people from bad homes use the same type of argument to excuse their present criminal behavior in court.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by MoonMine
 


I see that you did change your signature.

And linked to a website who's stated purpose is:


It is the goal of Castle Hill Publishers to make both the Saxons and the Anglo-Saxons (Germans and Amero-English) become aware of this tragedy from a 1000-year old perspective, by making accessible to a world-wide audience the true history of this mutual self-laceration both, which is being suppressed until today.

vho.org

No wonder all the fuss.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 05:02 PM
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Well for what its worth I think some of the more interesting information I have garnered over the years came from people with first hand experiences or interactions and they gave their honest account of the event/situation. Sometimes due to their experience with races/religions/sexualities words are written to best describe as the writer can the experience.

Now with more restrictions and control I feel the experiences are no longer going to contain the whole truth but just portions of it that are Politically Correct and I can read that anywhere on the web of mainstream. I come here to read how people really thought and felt not some watered down PC version to prevent bickering and people feeling violated....gee do we really need this ?



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 05:03 PM
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Slander and defamation, so-called "fighting words", are not protected by the first amendment, last I heard. So hate speech as such would not be either, to all those proclaiming this the end of "free speech" at ATS. I'm not sure what the argument is. If I had seen abuse of power here before I might understand it. But from what I've seen, everyone responsible for the running of this site makes every effort to be fair and unbiased. Of course those who get the hammer end up with the lumps. But there's a place to air those grievances too. As I see it, there just trying to keep the place nice. I don't see the harm in that, or the use in flagrant disregard for basic human understanding, which is what, to me, this really boils down to.

Now, on the other hand, I hope that we are still free here to hate speech. I'll test it out with a moment of silent protest against verbosity.....................
Thank you for your time



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 05:03 PM
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TY Spinger, just wanted you to know I fully support your position.





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