The END of Hate Speech, subtle or otherwise, on ATS

Originally posted by Crakeur
I didn't expect our members to have this much difficulty with this.

You've been here all these years and yet you still don't know us very well at all, do you? OF COURSE there was going to be difficulty. There is ALWAYS difficulty.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Okay, I can do that!

I'll miss bashing the Christian religion though... I suppose if I have to hate a religion I should hate them all equally.

[edit on 5-2-2009 by Frankidealist35]

well anything is open for interpretation for example.
I got 3 years in prison for defending myself from the NWO. The judge saw it as an unprovoked attack on an innocent pregnant minor. At the end of the day i still think i was defending myself and the judge still thinks i cannot come within 1,000 yards of her. Some people have their own opinions and stick to them and no ammount of anything will change that.


I was not charged with a hate crime.

[edit on by YoungStalin]

The problem is that there are numerous people on this board who complain about hate speech whenever you disagree with them. Examples - you don't like Obama - racist, You don't like Israel's bahavior in Gaza - anti-semitic etc. Unfortunately this rule has the potential to be used as a new layer of intimidation by this group.

[edit on 5-2-2009 by Mynaeris]

Folks, there IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING NEW about this. Civility and decorum are expected, as they've always been. The T&Cs apply as they always have.

We're just putting on notice the folks who have taken advantage of the slippage in this area that there is now a -0- Tolerance Policy. Think before you post. If it seems inappropriate, it probably is.

The people who have difficulty self determining what constitutes civility and decorum wil find that there's no tolerance for bad behavior. Everyone here is more than capable of getting a point across without inflammatory language. And if your point is "all [-]'s are bad", then you need to find another place to have that discussion.

Originally posted by who the hell cares
I have seen it all. You take the title of BIGGEST ANTI-SEMITE ON ATS!!!

Yea! Applause all around.

Real mature. & Q.E.D. ofcourse.

Originally posted by Interprid
I can see that this topic has run it's course. For the sake of the board...

Closed.

Need I say more?

Originally posted by MoonMine
No topic is taboo, and heated discussion should be allowed without personal attacks. If it is not, and a huge gray area like "Hate speech" is introduced here, then I start to wonder what I am doing here in the first place

if a topic cannot be discussed without comments such as this one:

Originally posted by
The Holocaust is the reason you cannot attack the Jews for whatever reason, what a diabolical way to pre-empt future attacks on your people and ensure a carte-blanche for your offspring.

then it cannot be discussed. there are plenty of sites out there that let you discuss such hate filled comments as the one above (yes, it is on our site) and, given a few minutes, I can find 100's more covering jews, muslims, blacks, asians, gays etc.

there is no need to spout hate when discussing a topic as there is no need to attack a member in the course of a debate. if you cannot separate the two, you will lose your posting priviledge.

And why is it that saying hateful things about women and stereotyping them remains okay? Yet doing it towards gay people is hate speech.

reply to post by Mynaeris


I think this applies to all groups.....and we women are included in "all groups".

But, just to be safe, if something offends you or strikes you as "hate speech", then hit the "Alert" button at the bottom of the post in question and let a Mod know.

They will decide if it falls into this category or if someone is just over-sensitive.

This isn't that hard or confusing.

[edit on 2/5/2009 by skeptic1]

okay first it was everyone getting the Civility & D thing now its hate speech. Lets get it over lets make list of topics that cant be talked about and opinions that cannot be stated.

Originally posted by Crakeur

Originally posted by
The Holocaust is the reason you cannot attack the Jews for whatever reason, what a diabolical way to pre-empt future attacks on your people and ensure a carte-blanche for your offspring.

don't see the hate in that comment, sounds like the basis of a conspiracy theory to me.

evil zionists enact the holocaust so they can use it to bring about the establishment of a new and purely jewish isreal and a third temple in order to speed up the coming of the messiah without anyone daring to critique.

this isn't a site for conspiracies?


[edit on 5/2/09 by pieman]

reply to post by YoungStalin


This isn't censorship or removal of your right to free speech.

It is removing hateful and sometimes down-right disgusting labels from the discussions we have around here.

No one is telling us that we can't express ourselves or our opinions on a topic. They are just telling us that if we can't do it without resorting to:

* Name calling
* Racism
* Bigotry
* Hatred
* Degredation
* Nasty generalizations
* Personal insults towards posters or groups of people

that, then, posting rights will be taken away.

A topic loses a helluva lot of its integrity, an argument loses a helluva lot of its validity when people have to resort to hate and insults and name-calling in order to "make their point".

Quit making this harder than it really is, and don't make this into something it isn't.

Originally posted by Crakeur
if a topic cannot be discussed without comments such as this one:

Originally posted by
The Holocaust is the reason you cannot attack the Jews for whatever reason, what a diabolical way to pre-empt future attacks on your people and ensure a carte-blanche for your offspring.

Excuse me? Hate against who or what exactly? I do not hate anyone, I just happen to have my doubts about certain parts of history and have my thoughts as to why events were portrayed in history as they were.

What you are saying is that I do not have the right to express these thoughts because they are hate speech. Well that works from both sides then doesn´t it?

I have never posted in true anger or hate, even though it can be profoundly frustrating to watch anyone with alternate views with regarding the faith of the Jews in WWII being smoked each and every time in here.

Bringing any rational argument or documentation of people who actually studied the topic for several years to the discussion falls to closed minds and deaf ears.

There are scores of (former) ATS users who have tried to debate rationally and have just given up and walked away because there is an enormous amount of bias here with regard to that particular taboo subject. I can dig up at least fifty threads along those lines and so can you.

Please do not mistake a tone of frustration and resignation for hate speech.

[edit on 5-2-2009 by MoonMine]

reply to post by YoungStalin


Why would we need to do that? Afterall, if everyone is equal and being afforded courtesy and respect, and everyone is taking part in a civilised discussion, then theres no need is there?

Originally posted by YoungStalin
okay first it was everyone getting the Civility & D thing now its hate speech. Lets get it over lets make list of topics that cant be talked about and opinions that cannot be stated.

We've had members critisizing any group here for years without getting so much as a warning or a post removed?

Why might it be that they can fully express their opinion on any topic?

This is not about topics that are not allowed. Its about wordings that carry ill intent.

reply to post by pieman


1. that's not what he said
2. stating that the slaughter of millions of people, based on their faith, was actually self perpetrated in order to protect their future generations is insanely twisted.

I find it funny that the majority of the folks have no problem with this but, a select few, are deeply troubled by this and, even more troubling,is that they cannot grasp what is hate speech.

reply to post by pieman


Exactly. For me it was the "subtle" issue. Outright rabid attacks are pretty obvious. And, it was my understanding that was already against the T&C, so this new post on "hate speech no matter how subtle" raised questions.

If it is the examples posted, then as far as I can tell, it is just business as usual, only enforced.

reply to post by MoonMine


let me put it to you more clearly.

we will no longer tolerate hate.

not against blacks
not against whites
not against muslims
not against jews
not against asians
not against gays
not against straight people
not against anyone.

if you cannot discuss a topic without spewing hatred, do not discuss it.

plain and simple.

I don't know how much clearer I can make it.

Originally posted by YoungStalin
okay first it was everyone getting the Civility & D thing now its hate speech. Lets get it over lets make list of topics that cant be talked about and opinions that cannot be stated.

Like the list Stalin drew up for unwanted individuals to be relocated to the Goulags? Or better still like the list of internet sites that are not allowed in China ?
Sorry, but this is just so un-ATS I cannot do anything else but reply sarcastically.

Originally posted by MoonMine
ATS has just crossed a line as far as I am concerned and has shown its true colors.... O please define hate speech for us would ya.

At the risk of sounding redundant - It's not very complicated. Springer (you know him, one of the owners) clearly stated that if you don't know the definition to do some research. Some Mods, have even provided examples. How many examples do you want?

Sorry Springer, I disagree. Either you have freedom of speech or you don´t.

You can have free speech without Racism, or Bigotry or any other thing that is considered hate-speech. THAT is what the problem is, free speech has NOTHING to do with people being rude or ignorant about a particular race. Post your opinions, by all means, we're all interested in what you have to say, otherwise we wouldn't be here. Is it just too difficult too post with Class?

No topic is taboo, and heated discussion should be allowed without personal attacks.

* Emphasis Mine

Yes agreed, hence the re-enforcement rule of hate speech - why is this so difficult? Hate speech IS a personal attack. So drop the hate speech and have an intelligent conversation using the rest of your vocabulary.

then I start to wonder what I am doing here in the first place

The log out button is at the top - nothing is sopping you from closing your browser and not opening it again. You knew the rules when you signed up, they're still the same - negligence on your part by not familiarizing yourself with the T&C is not ATS's problem.

This is ATS, not a tea-party. I get my daily conspiracy shot here.

Pretty sure most of us do - but what exact message are you trying to send that warrants the use of something that might be against the T&C?

There is no such thing as politically correct freedom, prove me wrong.

Say what you want to say, respectfully, and don't use words you wouldn't use when talking to your 5 year old daughter. Requesting you to be Polite is NOT an infringement of your right to freedom of speech.


- Carrot