Michael Phelps, hypocrisy and American Drug Policy

I see you're not a person of your word, ImaNutter. You're still on ATS. Type in whatever you like in bold or change your font size as you wish, but "a man is only as good as his word" as they say "and no confidence, without integrity".

Originally posted by ImaNutter
And I dare you to find one death caused by any sickness attributed to cannabis....as a matter of fact, in spite of every medical journal, of every study, of every fact I have posted in this thread.... if you find one death caused by an illness directly caused by cannabis and cannabis alone, I will leave ATS forever....

Deal.

Two of these deaths were reported as being induced, or directly caused, by marijuana (that is, an overdose).

- www.drugwatch.org...

[edit on 12-2-2009 by saint4God]

[edit on 12-2-2009 by saint4God]

Originally posted by alaskan
Technically america's the embarrassment, he's just like the rest of the (actually) civilized countries that most people wish they could go to.

Just because you have something against people that smoke doesn't mean you should act completely ignorant.

Last I checked, we take more immigrants than any other country. Some even die trying to get here. Not a lot of Americans rushing to leave, at least that I have heard of.

I don't care if he smokes marijuana, or not. He has enough $ he doesn't have to commit crimes to feed his habit. My issue is that he represents America in the Olympics, and that Kellog's and other sponsors would be wise to drop him from their AD campaigns.

[edit on 12-2-2009 by stevegmu]

Common side effects to Strattera in adults

* Sexual dysfunction (decreased libido, ejaculatory problems, impotence)
* Constipation
* Dry mouth
* Nausea
* Decreased appetite
* Dizziness
* Insomnia (trouble sleeping)
* Menstrual cramps
* Problems passing urine

Serious Reactions to Strattera

* Suicidal thoughts and actions:
o anxiety
o agitation
o panic attacks
o trouble sleeping
o irritability
o hostility
o aggressiveness
o impulsivity
o restlessness
o mania
o depression
o suicide thoughts
* NEW Mental (psychiatric) problems:
o New psychotic symptoms (such as hearing voices, believing things that are not true, being suspicious) or new manic symptoms
* Severe liver damage
* Heart-related problems:
o sudden death in patients who have heart problems or heart defects
o stroke and heart attack in adults
o increased blood pressure and heart rate
* Serious allergic reactions (call your doctor if you see swelling, hives, or experience other allergic reactions)
* Slowing of growth (height and weight) in children
* Problems passing urine including:
o Trouble starting or keeping a urine stream
o Cannot fully empty the bladder




Common side effects to Cannabis in adults:

* Euphoria
* Relaxation
* Inclination towards creativity and recreation
* Increase in appetite

Serious side effects to Cannabis in adults:
* Serious euphoria
* Serious relaxation
* Serious inclination towards creativity and recreation
* Serious increase in appetite

Originally posted by saint4God
I see you're not a person of your word, ImaNutter. You're still on ATS. Type in whatever you like in bold or change your font size as you wish, but "a man is only as good as his word" as they say "and no confidence, without integrity".

Originally posted by ImaNutter
And I dare you to find one death caused by any sickness attributed to cannabis....as a matter of fact, in spite of every medical journal, of every study, of every fact I have posted in this thread.... if you find one death caused by an illness directly caused by cannabis and cannabis alone, I will leave ATS forever....

Deal.

Two of these deaths were reported as being induced, or directly caused, by marijuana (that is, an overdose).

- www.drugwatch.org...

[edit on 12-2-2009 by saint4God]

[edit on 12-2-2009 by saint4God]

I would like to see "HOW" they died from MJ overdose??

Being a retard and sticking a bunch of air and MJ in a needle and trying to inject this is most likely how this happened.

Im pretty sure you have to smoke a literal bus-load in one sitting (good luck) to accomplish a feat of overdose, and before you could accomplish that you would most likely fall asleep or start eating in between.

Saint4God - if you are not just a straight up disinfo agent, your perceptions and views on life are skewed. I can tell this by reading your earlier posts on the specific topic. Im not trying to be a dick or anything, but your way off base.

reply to post by stevegmu


I take it you didn't vote for Barack Obama. That's okay the 53% of registered voters that voted for him did so knowing he did drugs as a teen and as a young adult. His drug of choice was marihuana and the majority of the U.S. doesn't care because he did just what Phelps did, appologize and ask for forgiveness. The only difference is that Kellogg, Inc. doesn't care if 53% of Americans stop eating or useing their products. Like me. I'm boycotting all Kellogg products until they decide to pull their head out of their pompous ass. Injesting marihuana isn't immoral because if it were, we wouldn't have elected TWO presidents who were known to be pot smokers.

Originally posted by saint4God
I see you're not a person of your word, ImaNutter. You're still on ATS. Type in whatever you like in bold or change your font size as you wish, but "a man is only as good as his word" as they say "and no confidence, without integrity".

Originally posted by ImaNutter
And I dare you to find one death caused by any sickness attributed to cannabis....as a matter of fact, in spite of every medical journal, of every study, of every fact I have posted in this thread.... if you find one death caused by an illness directly caused by cannabis and cannabis alone, I will leave ATS forever....

Deal.

Two of these deaths were reported as being induced, or directly caused, by marijuana (that is, an overdose).

- www.drugwatch.org...

[edit on 12-2-2009 by saint4God]

[edit on 12-2-2009 by saint4God]

Look... up.... the.... LD....50..... for.....cannabis.

It.... is..... impossible...... to..... overdose..... on..... cannabis.

The study doesn't say where they got the numbers or how they verified those numbers.

When you search for these supposed 2 deaths by cannabis overdose, they're nowhere to be found. If they did in fact happen, they would be the poster child for the anti-cannabis movement. Other than THAT chart, you can not prove this deaths happened.

Here is a BRITISH MEDICAL JOURNAL that states in black and white that cannabis can not kill you... PUBLISHED IN 2003, a year after your neat little chart 2 people claimed to have died from a cannabis overdose. The researches has a PhD, you do not, I trust them... not you. You can not die from Cannabis

Here is another source for you:
No cannabis deaths

So now we have two studies, both published after your supposed cannabis overdoses... and they both state there are no deaths from cannabis / you can not die from cannabis.

I wouldn't have made that proposition if I didn't know what I was getting myself into. You posted a chart with no reference material, I posted a respected medical journal by a researcher with a PhD. You asked specifically that we provide respected journals so I asked kindly that you do the same, until then... STILL HERE

But let's get one thing straight, I know you have no clue what you're talking about, I have posted more respected medical journals than you have supporting my case, you haven't read a word of them, you have your mind made up, as do most people on this subject. You obviously fall into the "devil weed" category. You probably believe it's going to make negros rape your white women too (a popular government propaganda line during Reefer Madness)

I'll say it once again, as every study I have posted proves... (if you took 5 minutes to look at any of them)
Cannabis... is.... less.... harmful.... than..... tobacco, alcohol, or caffeine.

The Schaffer Report (the US government) admits this, MANY MANY MANY people with PhD's admit this... your opinion is worthless on this matter. I have simply tried to provide you with factual information and you have chosen to ignore it, so your ignorance can't be helped. But the truth is plastered all over this thread and the only thing you've got is a sob story about your family members with psychological issues.

As long as one person who grew up believing the lies we've all been told about cannabis checks out one of my links (which is more than you have), then I will be happy.

[edit on 12-2-2009 by ImaNutter]

I heard it turns ladies into sluts, and foreigners into monsters.

Originally posted by alaskan
I heard it turns ladies into sluts, and foreigners into monsters.

I had no idea. Since you let me in on that little tidbit, I feel it's right to share a little-known secret myself: Masturbation makes you go blind.

Originally posted by saint4God

Two of these deaths were reported as being induced, or directly caused, by marijuana (that is, an overdose).

- www.drugwatch.org...

I don't know where you get your information mate, but you are dead wrong (excuse the pun).

I posted this a few pages back but you chose to completely ignore it because it does not agree with what you say. But facts are facts and you CANNOT deny this:

Nobody has EVER died from taking only cannabis. EVER. You want proof? Here you go...

LD50 (the dose required to kill half of the research subjects) is the consumption of roughly 1 kilogram (35.2739619 ounces) of cannabis in 1 minute!!

en.wikipedia.org...

There has never been a documented human fatality from marijuana. Information about THC's toxicity is derived from animal studies. The toxicity depends on the route of administration and the laboratory animal. Absorption is limited by serum lipids, which can become saturated with THC, mitigating toxicity. According to the Merck Index, 12th edition, THC has a LD50 (dose killing half of the research subjects) value of 1270 mg/kg (male rats) and 730 mg/kg (female rats) administered orally dissolved in sesame oil. The LD50 value for rats by inhalation of THC is 42 mg/kg of body weight. One estimate of Cannabis's LD50 for humans indicates that about 1500 pounds of marijuana would have to be smoked within 15 minutes. This estimate is supported by studies which indicate that the effective dose of THC is at least 1000 times lower than the estimated lethal dose (a "safety ratio" of 1000:1). This is much higher than alcohol (safety ratio of 10), coc aine (15), or heroin (6).

www.druglibrary.org...

What is the lethal dose of marijuana?

According to which US Government authority you want to believe, the lethal dose of marijuana is either about one-third your body weight, or about 1,500 pounds, consumed all at once.

In summary, enormous doses of Delta 9 THC, All THC and concentrated marihuana extract ingested by mouth were unable to produce death or organ pathology in large mammals but did produce fatalities in smaller rodents due to profound central nervous system depression.

The non-fatal consumption of 3000 mg/kg A THC by the dog and monkey would be comparable to a 154-pound human eating approximately 46 pounds (21 kilograms) of 1%-marihuana or 10 pounds of 5% hashish at one time. In addition, 92 mg/kg THC intravenously produced no fatalities in monkeys. These doses would be comparable to a 154-pound human smoking at one time almost three pounds (1.28 kg) of 1%-marihuana or 250,000 times the usual smoked dose and over a million times the minimal effective dose assuming 50% destruction of the THC by smoking.

Thus, evidence from animal studies and human case reports appears to indicate that the ratio of lethal dose to effective dose is quite large. This ratio is much more favorable than that of many other common psychoactive agents including alcohol and barbiturates (Phillips et al. 1971, Brill et al. 1970).

Now compare that to the likes of 'legal drugs' such as alcohol or tobacco. It blows them out of the water.

Originally posted by ImaNutter
Look... up.... the.... LD....50..... for.....cannabis.

Sorry, I'm not doing anything more for you, you're not a person of your word and have lost all credibility.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by ImaNutter
Look... up.... the.... LD....50..... for.....cannabis.

Sorry, I'm not doing anything more for you, you're not a person of your word and have lost all credibility.

says the man who posts a faux statistic, spreads propaganda, doesn't know any facts about what he's arguing, doesn't have first hand experience with what he's talking about, and refuses to read anything that HE asked for.

You haven't done squat to humor me anyway, all you've done is argue without facts this entire time while I've wasted my time FINDING legit studies THAT YOU ASKED FOR, for you to read... which you haven't done. You don't argue the studies or the facts, you argue trash and sob stories while avoiding substance... sounds like you are a "Saint 4 God." Without people of your ignorance, who would be left to believe all the propaganda meant to keep you in a neat box? And luckily, you didn't have to look the LD-50 up, someone already did for you above

Besides, I'll say it once again since you're hanging your hat on me not being a man of my word. Your..statistic...is...bogus. Didn't you even read the study you linked?

Originally posted by Reddupo

Originally posted by saint4God

Two of these deaths were reported as being induced, or directly caused, by marijuana (that is, an overdose).

- www.drugwatch.org...

...

This report presents only the numbers of deaths where marijuana was the only drug involved (although alcohol may also have been used).

From your report.

[edit on 12-2-2009 by Reddupo]

"Marijuana was the only drug involved, although there could have been alcohol too" HAHAHAHAHA :LOL: Pretty good for a biochemist... got any more doosies?

Make sure you KNOW what you're talking about before you perpetuate lies and filth.

[edit on 13-2-2009 by ImaNutter]

Originally posted by ImaNutter
I'm done with this thread.

Lie #2 apparently...or is it 'memory loss'?


[edit on 13-2-2009 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by ImaNutter
I'm done with this thread.

Lie #2 apparently

You can poke with a stick all you'd like... you're still ignoring facts and studies that were posted... doesn't bother me a bit.

You just continue to make yourself look as jaded, confused, and ignorant as ever... you do EVERYTHING but look at the studies YOU ASKED FOR.

You asked for them, you got them, you refuse to look at them. that's a win in my book. You're like Mini-Nixon. (Schaffer Report reference... if you even know what that was)

Hey there Nutter,

Some people just refuse to see the truth, because they have been blinded their whole lives. OK, granted, S4G had some bad personal experiences with family members. But they were just that: PERSONAL experiences.

From what I've seen, heard, and read, the stuff affects different people differently, and is certainly not for everyone (hmm, kind of like ALCOHOL!). There is STILL no rational reason for one to be illegal and the other legal.

From the facts presented in this thread, it would seem as though the government got it entirely wrong in deciding which substance to ban! Of course, in those days, a little racism went a long way, and we all know what happened next!

Saint needs to get over his little pity party and realize that adults are capable of making their own choices, and it is no business of the government to dictate how adults behave recreationally (as long as no one else is being harmed -- which, by the way, we already have laws to cover, so why do we need laws banning plants?).

Hey Saint, why don't you go ask someone who watched family members' lives be destroyed by alcohol their feelings on the subject? I'll bet you dollars to donuts they feel the same about the legal stuff as you do about the illegal. It is people and the choices that they make that cause their lives to be ruined, not the substances. (Although, in many cases, it is the mere illegality of MJ that causes the ruin of some people's lives -- were it legal, they would be just fine!)

The same can NOT be said for alcohol!

Originally posted by keeb333
Hey Saint, why don't you go ask someone who watched family members' lives be destroyed by alcohol their feelings on the subject?

Certainly. Where's the thread? I'd be glad to hear about it here, but I'm sure it would be considered off topic. There also seems to be an assumption here that no one in my family has been affected by alcoholism. This is also not the case.

[edit on 13-2-2009 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Reddupo

Originally posted by saint4God

Two of these deaths were reported as being induced, or directly caused, by marijuana (that is, an overdose).

- www.drugwatch.org...

...

This report presents only the numbers of deaths where marijuana was the only drug involved (although alcohol may also have been used).

From your report.

[edit on 12-2-2009 by Reddupo]

Saint4God, apparently you didn't read the particulars about the study you posted.

You can see quite clearly that there is no verification in this study that cannabis was the only drug used. IN THE STUDY they state that cannabis may not have been the only drug used. Then they don't even go on to say how they verified the results. Not to mention this website in an organization who's purpose to is to demonize cannabis, while my studies have been impartial. As a biochemist, do you not see the scientific fallacy in what you are doing?

Are you stating to warm up to the truth yet?

Are you tired of posting studies that contradict your stance yet?



[edit on 13-2-2009 by ImaNutter]

Originally posted by saint4God
There also seems to be an assumption here that no one in my family has been affected by alcoholism. This is also not the case.

[edit on 13-2-2009 by saint4God]

Wait, now I'm confused...are your personal experiences with family members who did just MJ or just alcohol, or were they people who used both regularly? Because from the beginning of the thread you've bashed MJ based on your family members' problems (despite the scientific evidence being presented against its harmfulness), however, if a person is using BOTH substances in conjunction, how can you know what the problem is? Maybe the problem is that they are using BOTH together and there is a synergistic effect which cumulatively worsens. Please help to clarify. Thanks!

I still maintain that the illegality of the stuff is the cause of 99% of peoples' problems. Take that away, and there is not much left that can cause harm.

[edit on 13-2-2009 by keeb333]

Originally posted by keeb333
if a person is using BOTH substances in conjunction, how can you know what the problem is?

Nice try (and yet another assumption), but I'm talking about separate family members and separate substances.

[edit on 13-2-2009 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


quote]Originally posted by Reddupo

Originally posted by saint4God

Two of these deaths were reported as being induced, or directly caused, by marijuana (that is, an overdose).

- www.drugwatch.org...

...

This report presents only the numbers of deaths where marijuana was the only drug involved (although alcohol may also have been used).

From your report.

[edit on 12-2-2009 by Reddupo]

Saint4God, apparently you didn't read the particulars about the study you posted.

You can see quite clearly that there is no verification in this study that cannabis was the only drug used. IN THE STUDY they state that cannabis may not have been the only drug used. Then they don't even go on to say how they verified the results. Not to mention this website in an organization who's purpose to is to demonize cannabis, while my studies have been impartial. As a biochemist, do you not see the scientific fallacy in what you are doing?

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by keeb333
if a person is using BOTH substances in conjunction, how can you know what the problem is?

Nice try, but I'm talking about separate family members and separate substances.

[edit on 13-2-2009 by saint4God]

Thanks for the clarification. So, your family members whose lives were ruined by MJ did not drink alcohol. Ok, then, that leaves us with the legal question. Were their lives ruined because of the legal status of this plant (i.e., getting busted and the repercussions from that)?