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Mistranslation-muslim martyrs get 72 'raisins' instead of 'virgins'

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posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 07:57 PM
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According to an Islam tradition, Muslim martyrs will go to paradise and marry 72 black-eyed virgins.
But some Koran scholars point to a less sexy paradise. While beautifully written, Islamic texts are often obscure. The Arabic language was born as a written language with the Koran, and growing evidence suggests that many of the words were Syriac or Aramaic.

Specifically, the Koran says martyrs going to heaven will get “hur,” and the word was taken by early commentators to mean “virgins,” hence those 72 concubines. But in Aramaic, hur actually meant “white” and was commonly used to specifically mean “white grapes.”

The philologist "Christoph Luxenburg", (who always uses a pseudonym for security reasons) notes that grapes would actually make more sense, because the text compares them to crystal and pearls, and because contemporary accounts have paradise abounding with fruit, especially white grapes.


www.dailygalaxy.com...




posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:09 PM
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Dying for 72 raisins sounds like a bad deal. If God is going to be that cheap I would definitely think twice about becoming a martyr.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:09 PM
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But in Aramaic, hur actually meant “white” and was commonly used to specifically mean “white grapes.”
reply to post by karl 12
 


Eating grapes seems like a much more wholesome activity on the other side anyway! I doubt that after being blown to pieces as their martyrs often are that they would have much left in the libido department to entertain a herum! Praise Alah!


Good find!



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:18 PM
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Ha! made me chuckle.
I wonder what the jihadies thought when they're in the paradise being presented to a plate with grapes.

Allah- Now my sons, here are your virgin grapes.

Sons- Grapes? Don't you mean virgins?

Allah -*puzzled*

Sons- We were supposed to get 72 virgins!

Allah- ...Well who the **** told you that ****!


haha praise Allah!

[edit on 4/2/2009 by n0b0DY]

[edit on 4/2/2009 by n0b0DY]

[edit on 4/2/2009 by n0b0DY]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:23 PM
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could it be used to describe white cherries?
Just wondering.



Edit: I thought it was kinda funny guess not lol.

[edit on 4-2-2009 by heyo]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:27 PM
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I see the zionist contingent at ATS resort to satire to cloud the horrors of Israeli war crimes by demonising a religion. Very Geobelesque but then like an abused child grows up to be an abuser and so have zionists done the same.

Furthermore, in the same way zionists bait Muslims, they lay out the bait of Islam for the latent bigotry in others.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:32 PM
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As a muslim, i've never seen the oft referenced 72 virgins in any text. i really have not. its not in the Quran. Seriously, don't just take my word for it. There is no mention of martyring oneself for virgins. And the Prophet never mentioned it either. Without either of those prequisites, i'll say no muslim should ever take this 72 virgin thing seriously. Sadly, the extremists do. For whatever reason. Sheeple aren't known for being hard to influence.

Besides, i don't think its the main reason suicide bombers do it. And who wants a virgin anyway? Have you ever been with a virgin. its like trying to wake a sheeple up. Hard and painful.

Give me a cougar anyday. Superfreak. Rick James had a point.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:40 PM
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For information on the mistranslation listen to Robin Williams Live 2002 cd. He discusses it very thoroughly.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by karl 12
 


Humor aside.

It is difficult for westerners to not see the humor in this whole subject. Read the source.

There was a trove of old 7th century koran papers (photos of originals) thought to be destroyed in WWII but surfaced some 20 years ago. These papers although little studied so far may well prove what we all assume, that the Koran didn't come entirely from the angel Gabriel but had earthly origins in early jewish and christian code.

The Christian and Jewish texts have been discussed and dissected to shreds so to speak, so why can't we do the same thing to the Koran? It might be very instructive indeed!

But oh no say the Muslims, this is so sacrid we can't even talk about it!

Well, like it or not copies of the microfilm are out and the discussion of the origin of the Koran will come about. It is just in the early stages.

The discussion of the grapes vs. the virgins is just frosting on the cake!






posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by masonwatcher
I see the zionist contingent at ATS resort to satire to cloud the horrors of Israeli war crimes by demonising a religion. Very Geobelesque but then like an abused child grows up to be an abuser and so have zionists done the same.

Furthermore, in the same way zionists bait Muslims, they lay out the bait of Islam for the latent bigotry in others.


I think you erred on that one Islam is self-demonizing.
two lines.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by masonwatcher
I see the zionist contingent at ATS resort to satire to cloud the horrors of Israeli war crimes by demonising a religion.



A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
Winston Churchill


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by plumranch
 





Well, like it or not copies of the microfilm are out and the discussion of the origin of the Koran will come about. It is just in the early stages.


You know the old phrase, "put up or shut up". Can you provide a link?

What puzzles me is that these 'old manuscripts' you mention, why would they have been destroyed? I can understand total war in Europe created immense damage but this kind of thing didn't extend into North Africa or the Arabian peninsula.

Normally newly discovered manuscripts are displayed and scanned for general distribution yet no one but you has heard of it.

Finally if it was 'thought' to have been destroyed, who thought that and why wasn't it studied before it was presumed 'destroyed'.



[edit on 092828p://pm2814 by masonwatcher]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by M157yD4wn
As a muslim, i've never seen the oft referenced 72 virgins in any text. i really have not. its not in the Quran. Seriously, don't just take my word for it. There is no mention of martyring oneself for virgins. And the Prophet never mentioned it either. Without either of those prequisites, i'll say no muslim should ever take this 72 virgin thing seriously. Sadly, the extremists do. For whatever reason. Sheeple aren't known for being hard to influence.

Besides, i don't think its the main reason suicide bombers do it. And who wants a virgin anyway? Have you ever been with a virgin. its like trying to wake a sheeple up. Hard and painful.

Give me a cougar anyday. Superfreak. Rick James had a point.



I did not know you were Muslim. I learn something new about the members every day.

Back on topic--I have read the Koran too and I did not see it either. In fact the only place I can recall hearing that was from fundamental Christian types trying to stir up fear.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:10 PM
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reply to post by heyo
 





I think you erred on that one Islam is self-demonizing. two lines.


You think wrong, however, zionists self demonise out of compulsion then pass the mess onto others. Remember the USS Liberty and the attempted mossad Mexican parliament bombing?



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:12 PM
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Yep same here. Looked and can't find it.
I even went to my muslim buddy, he didn't know where it was either. great guy though.

now as for masonwatcher, I think teller says it best.




[edit on 4/2/2009 by n0b0DY]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by masonwatcher
reply to post by heyo
 





I think you erred on that one Islam is self-demonizing. two lines.


You think wrong, however, zionists self demonise out of compulsion then pass the mess onto others. Remember the USS Liberty and the attempted mossad Mexican parliament bombing?


It is a fallacy to tell people how you are percieved by them. It's like giving yourself a cool nickname.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by karl 12
 


Amusing to see zionists throw stones. Haven't you got enough arms from the US tax payer?


There is nothing more fanatical than a rampaging zionist; it is a combination of neuroses and spite. Looks very odd to the impartial observer. It must be exposed, at least for comical value.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:18 PM
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reply to post by heyo
 





It is a fallacy to tell people how you are percieved by them. It's like giving yourself a cool nickname.


You what mate? Sorry, I don't know what you are talking about. You are being a little obtuse. Can you translate your gibberish?



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by masonwatcher
reply to post by heyo
 





It is a fallacy to tell people how you are percieved by them. It's like giving yourself a cool nickname.


You what mate? Sorry, I don't know what you are talking about. You are being a little obtuse. Can you translate your gibberish?


You cannot say how islam is seen by other people because you're not other people, you're islam. My point is that the actions (actually the inaction of islam is probably worse) of islam, not news reports, are what demonizes them. You said no it's not, and i explained there is no way you can prove why people think what they do about you. It works all throughout nature.

I realize that most good points seem like gibberish in islam, so it's all good.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:33 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

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