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Fathers rights...or the lack of

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posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 06:06 PM
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As someone who has suffered through years of what you are going through, I can certainly empathize with your situation.

I would look out for any sign of "parental alienation" (my ex hit 80% of the markers). Even if it's not 100% conscious on her part, it can happen so easily. If she hits the markers, tell her you've noticed.

As for the child support agencies...Well, they hide behind "it's the law" - without ever really truly understanding it. They are there to collect money. They use a computer program to calculate how much. They spent a lot of money on that program, and by golly they are going to use it. It's a crock, and it's one sided, but it's what they paid for (and what you'll pay for).

Aside from that, they tend to be very bad at their job anyway. They decide how much you pay, how you pay it (garnishments etc.), when you pay it. If THEY make a mistake, it's YOUR responsibility. Trust me - they will make mistakes. Call your case worker...When/If you ever get to talk to them, ask very precise questions on the legalities of the case. I'll bet you that they cannot answer half of the questions on the case that they are holding in their hands.

When there's any sort of problem with the file (remember it's your responsibility even if you have absolutely no control over it) they will mess up your credit rating by reporting you to TRS.

On your divorce there will be clearly defined terms of responsibility, and visitation. If your ex strays from any of these (like making decisions independently for which you were supposed to have been jointly responsible), report her to the court. Every time. If she tries to block a visitation, report it. Every time. I did not, and I wish I had.

Custody/visitation and child support are not cross linked in any way. Don't use one to fight the other. Mantra. Say it three times.

As many mentioned - never bad mouth the ex in any way in front of the kids.

Unfortunately the courts do look at the women differently to how they perceive men. Sad, unfair, but true. Proof gets you nowhere. Logic gets you nowhere. The law gets you nowhere in court. It's all down to (a) the judge, (b) what he/she has been directed to decide by whatever directive from above (logic fails here), (c) his/her personal feelings (even though I had proof, the judge's best friend had a similar job to the ex - so she "knew" that I was wrong. Proof? Evidence? Logic? Thrown out).

The system is unfair. It is not logical. Do your best to fight it. The kids are the ones who suffer in the end if you don't.

Is it purely coincidental that the DA's office (child support agency as it was then) handling my case was federally audited three times. Useless, all of them. The old logo was literally a woman leaning on the state of California. Very telling.

Bitter? Me? Yep. Chewed up and sapt out of the machine.

I can understand that there are many women out there who are the victims of the 'deadbeat dad'. I really do feel for you. The problem is that every dad now has been tarred with the same brush.




posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 07:23 PM
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Well, I don't know if I would call it good news or not but I got them to back off for a bit anyhow and not jack with my drivers license. I called and raised holy hell with the lady after posting this thread and getting a letter (with more threats of course) claiming I owed something like $16,000.......I lost my friggin mind. I completely melted down with this lady and her supervisor. I finally told them to shut their mouths, if they needed a recap they could just play back the conversation as I know it is recorded....LMAO! I completely aired out all my grievences with them, the system, my ex, all of it. Told them the first thing they need to do was look at my payment history....does that look like a deadbeat to you bish??? Told them that in the last three communications (all within 10 days of each other) that I had been given three amounts that I owe all of which vary wildly, some from a couple of grand(realistic) to $7,000, and the $16,000 (they got the good dope I guess) figure that I have no damn idea where it comes from.....and neither do they, but they are more than happy to mess up my life over it until the figure it out. I let them know I wouldn't give anyone a dime until I had a solid figure in writing, nor would I comply in any way until someone helped my enforce my rights as a father, and that they would be considered an enemy and threats/extortion attempts would be handled accordingly with retaliation. I talked so much smack it's not even funny(not that it will help me later, I know I know) To be honest, I spent the rest of the day waiting for some nice men with badges to come have a talk with me, but they never did. Apparently I'm not the first one to make some threats when they are losing their grip on fatherhood. I must have ranted like a lunitic for 10-15 minutes. Long story short(too late) I got a call back from a supervisor later on saying that they were enrolling me in some program that would protect me from their "collection practices" and she actually gave me the number to a non-custodial parents advocacy group in my area. It's not much but maybe a start in the right direction on their part, at least in my case. I am just glad they are taking me seriously. I have a feeling I am still fighting a losing battle, and that I will gain nothing,but I am also pretty sure my son is old enough to know his old man is pulling for him even if I completely lose out. Like many of you mentioned earlier, one day he will be old enough to live with, or drive to see whoever he wants and he will remember me fighting in vain just to be his daddy. Guess we'll see, they just better not take it all and still keep pushing......



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 10:44 PM
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Got'a take a deep breath man!

You will see just like your kids will see thru' the sh*t! remember the kids see thru it better then the adults
(say age 12 most can


Your day will come man....it's not forever, and when y'r kids' get older it will be different for you, much different....and most of all worth it.

How you say it...again? oh y'a "priceless"


Y'r Canadian friend,
Sven



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 04:51 AM
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reply to post by mushninja
 





Long story short(too late) I got a call back from a supervisor later on saying that they were enrolling me in some program that would protect me from their "collection practices" and she actually gave me the number to a non-custodial parents advocacy group in my area.


Dear god how freaking insane does it have to get, what the hell is the matter with people.


Here's a tip dude which sometimes helps with dealing with jobsworth women in positions of authority.

Be very subtle when conversing with them, allow them to bloat their own egos. Hint that you cannot understand how society would fund the mothers crack habit sooner than help your son get medication.

Yes this is nasty, but at the end of the day you have to do what ever it takes. Don't lose your rag with these women, be firm but don't get angry.

When you get on the phone and are put through to a woman, pretend she's most beautiful chick in the world and the only reason your on the phone is to get to know her. Make small talk and try to get her to laugh as soon as you can, if she's not stressed out or having a bad day and should respond. Remember these people get it in the ear from men all day long, so it's refreshing to have a gentleman on the phone for a change, especially one that appreciates what she does.

If your not used to doing this,practice by phoning around places like the IRS or women refuges for example. Get her name as soon as you can and use it often, flattery with sincerity goes a long way, she's a very lovely lady and is doing a good job perhaps she should be appreciated more.

Very often if you get it right they will do anything for you, I'm not making this up, it works most of the time, not all the time but most of the time.
Nearly forgot, lower your voice if you have a high voice, let them draw pictures in their mind of what you may look like.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 11:38 AM
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***SNIP***

On a serious note this is agian another example of how ***SNIP*** up the world is and how this whole beuracrat system with small people with dead end jobs think they are tough becuase they send the nice guys who cant fight back letters and be hard on them because they know the ones who are bad will knock the ***SNIP*** out of them and also because they have no life, we need a new government in both the uk and usa(which hopefully obama will bring) and the people who just make things worse for the majority get shot and these bankers who think they should get a bonus should be hanged. ***SNIP***


Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 10-2-2009 by Crakeur]



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 03:03 PM
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How about this kill the bitch, kill the twats who keep sending the letter and then go on the run to iran or NK with your son.
reply to post by Juksey
 


You'd be suprised how many shafted fathers I've spoken to have actually considered that as an option.

I often wonder whether things like these are delibeately designed to keep socity at each others throats, so we're too busy to notice what's really going on in the world.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by moocowman

I often wonder whether things like these are delibeately designed to keep socity at each others throats, so we're too busy to notice what's really going on in the world.



Without confrontation or reason to fight, most women are just women.......

They hate that!

When will women learn to love as well as they expect to be loved?

Years of being objects and suffering at the hands of egotistical men is NOT the fault of men TODAY.

If they want equality...fine

If they want revenge...NOT fine, it can only breed conflict.

Long live celibacy! I think with my brain.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


Not at all. You're special. But statistically I'm right.

Your issue has to do with the courts. Again, as I said, record the problem and give it to the judge.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by EdWardMD
It's alot worse than reporting you to creditors.

Get a vasectomy or masterbate more otherwise fathers are targets, unless the father is connected then mom gets screwed but not nearly as hard.

Child support casualties. mensnewsdaily.com...

DrEd


Or hire a surrogate to have his child. At least then he'll have full custody and it will be less expensive in the long run. Women use IVF and sperm donors to become mothers so I guess men have to start thinking outside the box too.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by mushninja
 


As I mentioned, visitation/custody and child support are not interlinked. If you talk to the child support agency about visitation etc. or the terms of the divorce/separation you will only confuse them. Treat both situations separately.

The child support collection people don't give a damn about your visitation or any violations. They are looking at a calculator that determines how much you should pay. It does not make any logical sense in the real world, but they are simply looking at a screen that says, "You owe $XXX." That's it.
They will hide behind their badges and haunt you until YOU sort it all out for them. Remember, it's your responsibility to make sure it's right. If THEY mess it up, it's YOUR responsibility to clean up the mess. If it's messed up, they will garnish wages, they will mess up your credit, they will revoke your driving license, they will report you as a criminal. 99% of the time it's messed up because the person working on your file is completely inept. How do they get away with it? They hide behind "It's the law."

You are a father. You are therefore supposed to pay child support. You are therefore - in their eyes - a potential criminal. It's the system they use. If you get in their faces and make them actually work/explain they simply cannot cope.

Go to the office if you can, don't call them. Sit in a cubicle with the case worker and insist that you sort out the mess. They will try like mad to get rid of you. Stay 'til it's taken care of. Record every mistake made on the file (there will be plenty) and determine where the fault is. Then report them to everyone you can think of. Scares the crap out of them.

Sorry, my friend, you are caught in an unfair system from which there is little chance of escape.

Also, be very sure that your employer, or any paycheck service used, gets your payments absolutely right every time. Again, you are the responsible party for any mistake made by anyone - regardless of whether you have any control over the error.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by Badgered1
 

Yeah when I first called because they were threatening to take my license within 60 days if I didn't respond they said couldn't speak to me about the case because they realized that my birthday was off by one year in the computer and that a supervisor would have to sort it out before we could continue......the 60 day clock still ticking and working against me of course. I really don't care if their only job is to collect money....the state wants to involve it's self in mine and my childs life in order to make "enforcements" then we are going to do this whole thing the right way and enforce everthing to the letter. If that means they need to involve other agencys, then so be it. That's their deal. If I don't come out of this situation with a square deal all the way around they will surely regret it much more than I will. If the state interjects it's self it must also be willing to suffer the consequences....they have been put on notice, I'm sure they're real worried about me lol.....I just need to sit back and wait to see what this letter they are sending me has to say, and see what this advocay group is all about. Something tells me they just pawned me off to be someone elses problem child. They wanted me.....now they're stuck with me, they better make it right



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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Just to remind some on here....

I'm a single dad... never got 1 cent in child support, got full custody but never a penny in support.

So from my view....this is def. double sided.

Oh y'a never held back any time the mother or other family members from seeing the child. Have a feeling if this was reversed I would be paying thru' the nose and having very little time with my kid.

Not to mention the fact the dad's need to pay etc. (and in some cases have a drivers license revoked), while at the same time they get the child on a weekend, with very little money left to take them out for fun or feed them, cloth'them, not to mention a bed for them.

It's funny even with my situation, the mother would still try to do things to "upset" my son's life with his dad...imagine if I asked for child support.



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