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Fathers rights...or the lack of

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posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 11:41 AM
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I am sorry for you. I know all of your pains.

In the last 3 years 8 of my very close friends wives walked out on them, including mine. Our son is under 5 and he expresses his feelings about the
entire situation. She is one of the most selfish people I know.

One day she just decide she didn't want to be married, no chance for counseling even though I begged her. She said: I don't want to be married to you anymore.

It shock everyone on both sides of our families and all the talking in the world didn't make a bit of difference. She stonewalled the entire time and still does today, so I just tossed in the towel on our marriage because it takes two people to make it work.

I was always faithful to her, provided for the family, don't drink, don't smoke, don't gamble, don't do drugs, made plenty of family time, cleaned up after myself, fixed things immediately when they broke, and we hardly ever argued.

I do have 50/50 custody but pay child support. Yes she makes more and has a higher education than I do, go figure.

Here are 3 words.

Selfish

Immature

Grass is always greener on the other side.


It's all about our son now he is the most important thing and that is one thing we both agree on.




Originally posted by slicobacon
After 5 years my wife wanted to be single again - so she took my son and moved in with her parents. Nobody cheated, she wanted something new. I was granted "standard visitation" and she was granted "standard child support".
Standard visitation means I get to see my son every other weekend and one evening during the off week.
Standard child support has ended up being $800 a month taken directly out of my check.
I have to barter with her for more time with my son. He and I are very close and he cries whenever I have to take him back to his Mom's house. An extra weekend ususally costs a plane ticket for her to go visit her freind in Florida.

Its such a fair system.


[edit on 5-2-2009 by Realtruth]




posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 11:53 AM
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If you are a father and you care about your kids...be there for them.

If it's only one weekend a month, be there.

If it's never...chances are they will come looking for you when they are nineteen, not all the brainwashing in the world will eliminate the child's curiosity about you and/or your family...when they do, be there.

Places you've gone in your head you didn't think even existed are now marked with scars. Keep in mind that that pain does not transfer to the child, it stays within you and needs to be dealt with by you. It is never as bad as it seems at the moment.

Lawyers will only take your money, research and file the documents yourself.

Kids are remarkable and resilient. Stay strong, and it will almost never fit into your time schedule, but most important of all...BE THERE FOR THE CHILD when THEY need it, not you.

Good Luck.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 12:02 PM
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i feel for you guys, i really do.

why is it that women scream sexism about all the negative inequalities but a resounding silence is met when someone mentions something like this.

the reasoning behind the inequality, which seems to be universal, is largely due to the twin misconceptions that women are incapable of being the main bread winner and that they are better parents.

the feminists are always harping on about a womens ability in the workplace, although i have yet to see the evidence, so i'll let them carry on with that fight.

the greater truth is the far and away understated one, most women are totally useless at being an effective parent on their own, they are too soft and unstable to offer a child the nurturing that will allow the children to live an effective life.

most criminals cite a lack of a father figure as the reason for their misdeeds, clearly mum just wasn't enough.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 12:07 PM
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You are an example of why I don't have kids nor want kids. I know alot of guys in your shoes and I refuse to go down that road. My step dads exwife is doing the same thing to him except shes getting $1000 a month. She even moved with his two kids out of state and he had no say in the matter. Then she had the audasity to go to court and say she wanted her child support increased because she needs a new car. She realy said that to the judge and my mom witnessed it.

I tell the women I meet I do not want kids and I use a condom no matter what. I've had women tell me thier on the pill and personaly I don't care I'm not having no oops baby.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 12:24 PM
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It would sure be nice to read - just once:

1. "my children's home" - not my ex-wife took MY house.

2. "I abandoned my children" - not I left because she was cheating.

3. "I provide for my children" - not the state takes my hard earned money.

I do know fathers that put their children first - stayed in the home while going through legal means to assure the best for their children and did win full custody.

My step-sister left her husband and children. He filed for custody charging her with abandonment. He won. (she was and is an excellent mother who had married a much older man - - they eventually worked out their differences for the sake of the children - - which he gave back to her when he felt she was settled).

In my experience - the majority of men tend to view themselves as the victim.

It may not sound like it - but I greatly appreciate that men who care and love their children are fighting back. If they are being sincere - and their focus is on the welfare of the children.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 


You can't really say that unless you are in the exact same position that he is. I love my son very much but after years of hopelessness it is not as far fetched as you might think to find yourself with these same feelings. For all intents and purposes these are no longer our children.....do you know what it is like to pick up your kid for a day once or twice a year if you're lucky and have nothing to say, not know anything about what he likes/dislikes, favorite food ect ect. All things even weekend dads get to know. What finally did it to me was when I found out she has him calling this other guy daddy...and the boy scout thing. I have nothing left and no recourse. I refuse to be just a paycheck.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by Annee
It would sure be nice to read - just once:

1. "my children's home" - not my ex-wife took MY house.

2. "I abandoned my children" - not I left because she was cheating.

3. "I provide for my children" - not the state takes my hard earned money.



Here are the problems with what you have written:
1. It will still be the children's home. The mother is still there with them, they get to call it home still, the man does not. To the man it is no longer a home, it is just a house, the place where if he is lucky he gets to pick his kids up from.

2. Would YOU stay with a man that couldn't keep his pants on? Would you suffer the disgrace, the humiliation, and the absolute contempt for the family YOU have worked to create? Why should a man? If either one cannot respect the sanctity of the marriage, or the or the bond of family, does it even exist?

3. The main problem is that we have no idea if we are providing for our children. We do not know where our money goes and how it is spent. Is it childish? Yes, but if we are forced to account to government agencies about every single penny of income we get so that they know how hard they can squeeze us, then we should have the right to know if we are skipping supper tonight so that Little Johnny or Suzie are having a decent meal, or if Mommy Dearest is going out to the bar for the 4th time this week to get trashed with her friends.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Do you know what I would love to see?

Shared Parental Responsibility, not us guys getting screwed with absolutely no say so in how our children are raised. Or how about this? The courts actually doing what is in the best interests of the child and having BOTH parents help raise the child. Instead of the courts thinking the only useful input a father has is the monetary support to help care for the child. I bet you 90% or more of fathers who really love their kids wouldn't give a damn about how much support they pay if they only had the ability to care for their children. I know I would feel much better about support if I were able to be with my son more often than never.

That would be nice. I would love to have some say so in the care and wellbeing of my child and not just an extra paycheck for my ex wife. Hell I would love to be able to hug my little boy and tell him in person that I love him.

Not really ranting on you, just sick of the system and how screwed up it is.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Why would something like that be so nice to read??? I'm just glad there is a women here to put the "typical womans twist" on a mans words....

Again, no one needs to justify their reasons for leaving/splitting up to you, or any court in the land. We all have the right to our individual pursuit of happiness. And if that means leaving a volitile situation, and a milicious, vindictive giner behind so be it. THAT DOES NOT MAKE THE MAN A CRIMINAL, NOR DOES IT MEAN HE CEASES TO BE A FATHER IN ANY CAPACITY. I realize you may be trying to bring some balance to this discussion but I don't think you have the experince or a leg to stand on.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by Annee
It would sure be nice to read - just once:

1. "my children's home" - not my ex-wife took MY house.

2. "I abandoned my children" - not I left because she was cheating.

3. "I provide for my children" - not the state takes my hard earned money.





That's not fair. The same declarations would never be asked of the mother. Why should they be asked of the father?

If the ex-wife took the house because of the child, then the statement "my ex-wife took/got the house" is the proper statement.

A smart woman would not stay with a man who cheats....why would a man have to justifiy leaving a situation that a woman would never have to??

And, the state does take the money, with the receiver of the child support (generally the mother) never having to say where the money goes.

There is a double standard that is not right, is not fair, and is not normally in the best interest of the child(ren).



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 12:54 PM
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My position.

Positive: both my own father and my kids father never missed a support payment.

Negative: neither my own father or my kids father ever made any attempt to be in their lives.

---------------------------------------

My daughter became pregnant in her mid 20's - choosing not to stay with the father. She wanted him out of her life. He fought to be a father - and has never stopped being involved in his daughter's life.

I supported him over my daughter.

Today they have an all inclusive family type relationship - - spending holidays together as an extended family. They worked everything out between them without lawyers

----------------------------------------

I NEVER support using children as pawns. The children should always be top priority.

No matter what the situation - - continue to connect and be in your child's life - - no matter what it takes. Children are smart - they know who loves them.

---------------------------------------

It is still in my 60+ years of experience - - the majority of men see themselves as the victim.

And that is all I have to say.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 01:01 PM
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the only problem is, if you look at the statistics, they show that men are often the victims in this situation. closely followed by the kids deprived of a father.

slaves usually see themselves as over worked and underpaid, mostly because it's true.

[edit on 5/2/09 by pieman]



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 01:06 PM
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The bottom line is: Men need to stop seeing themselves as the victim. The child is the victim.

Keep trying to contact your child even into adulthood.

NEVER tell a child - "you know where I am if you want to see me".



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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I feel fortunate that after 36 years of not seeing my father - - he did track me down - - and I got to spend a few months with him before he died of lung Cancer.

Never stop.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 01:18 PM
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this is what I wrote to my state lawmakers:


Something I want you to read sir.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is an atrocity that goes on all across this nation. It's high time our lawmakers put an end to this horrid injustice. Fathers are torn apart from their children each and every day, with absolutely no recourse. We are criminalized and dehumanised. This must stop.

We as fathers want what is best for our children, but we are unable to do so because of horribly inadequate laws protecting our rights. I myself have not seen my child in over two years sir. Two YEARS! Does the Friend of the Court do anything to put a stop to this? NO! I can petition for more time but this does nothing to make up for the time I have lost. Time I was guaranteed by the court.

This is an atrocity, This is a human rights violation. This not only hurts me as a father deeply, this destroys the bond between father and child.

As a father paying child support, isn't it also my duty to help raise my child? Don't you think that my rights should be enforced along with my duty to pay child support? If I do not pay child support I can be arrested. However if my ex wife refuses to let me see my child no punishment can come of her. There is no letter from FOC to her informing her of her licence being taken away, there is no jail time for her refusing to let me see my son. This is absurd!

The courts tell us that they see the importance of keeping the parental bonds. But they do nothing to enforce the rulings they lay down.

Two years good sir. Two years I haven't seen my son. This is an outrage, This is injustice to the highest order. We need new laws to strengthen father's rights to be fathers, not just child support payers.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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And some moms wonder why thiers kids are missing.When dad has changed his name and raising the kid across the country.and she does not have the child no child surport.thats what I hear.There a reason men turn gay.Its sad sad.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by mushninja
 


Heart goes out to you dude, been where you are more or less.
Nothing anyone will say can make it hurt less or prevent you from being angry which you have every right to be.

I will make my replies short because I'll end up getting banned for using an excessive amount of profanity, and would probably end up offending a few of the ladies here when I lose my rag.

Here is a pretty good place to vent your anger and frustrations www.fathers-4-justice.us/ - and there is some good advice, if you've not been there already.

If I can help you in anyway with the injustice imposed on you feel free to ask will do if I can.

Time and again you will be advised to not slag off your ex in front of your son, this is sound advice and the first thing that you should sink into your swede. I would add to this don't slag her off in front of anyone female even one you would consider a friend.
You can slag your ex off as much as you want once you've finished it all.

feel free to u2u me if you want to get some things off your chest. be positive, your child is a boy and too old to have you wiped from his memory, these are very positive things.

I'm sure there are plenty of other blokes here on ats who would gladly help you, so no need to feel alone.

Despite all the bad news and gender bias systems that are manipulated by mothers, there are cases of children returning to their fathers, mine is one.

Don't let the bastards get you down.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 





It would sure be nice to read - just once: 1. "my children's home" - not my ex-wife took MY house. 2. "I abandoned my children" - not I left because she was cheating. 3. "I provide for my children" - not the state takes my hard earned money. I do know fathers that put their children first - stayed in the home while going through legal means to assure the best for their children and did win full custody.



Since when has leaving your partner ever been abandoning your children ?
It is this kind of insane logic that keeps the status quo where children are being permanently damaged.

If the dude had abandoned his child then he wouldn't be here on ATS venting his frustration dear lady.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 03:55 PM
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Hi,

I left my partner 6 years ago and she has made my life hell. My son has not known anything else but I am blamed for everything, even now.

Understand that as time goes on, the truth about issues will out and I know that he will understand what happened. My heart goes out to the OP. Things, as they say, can only get better. There appears to be a lot of blokes on here in similar situations so stay strong, remain focussed and vent on here or via u2u. Nothing worse than venting in front of the child.

Peace out



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by Annee
 





It would sure be nice to read - just once: 1. "my children's home" - not my ex-wife took MY house. 2. "I abandoned my children" - not I left because she was cheating. 3. "I provide for my children" - not the state takes my hard earned money. I do know fathers that put their children first - stayed in the home while going through legal means to assure the best for their children and did win full custody.



Since when has leaving your partner ever been abandoning your children ?
It is this kind of insane logic that keeps the status quo where children are being permanently damaged.

If the dude had abandoned his child then he wouldn't be here on ATS venting his frustration dear lady.



Don't think for a nano-second I don't value a father who fights to be a father. I was abandoned by mine. I had to divorce my kids father because he was jealous of his own children. My 15 year old grandson's chose drugs over him. My 1 year old grandson's dad went into a coma when he was 3 days old and died 3 weeks later of infectious Leukemia.

I suggest all father's separated from their children keep a journal - writing positive letters to their children of how they love them and want to be involved in their lives. It could make a difference when the child is older and filled with one sided stories.

The legal system is changing slowly - but it is changing. While there are definitely men taking being daddy seriously - - in my experience as a single mother and knowing other single mother - - it is still the minority.

From my perspective - men need to start holding other/all men responsible and stop blaming everything on women.

When men organize and start campaigning for legislation to make DNA paternity testing mandatory - holding ALL men accountable - - I will have more compassion for their plight.

As of now - a man can just walk away - refuse to sign the birth certificate - and proof of paternity falls solely on the woman. Not only does she have to get the sperm donor to volunteer to a DNA test - - she has to pay for it and the court costs.

You may not see all of this as being related - - but I do.



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