Why would anyone say ‘religion’ is here…to ‘control’ people?

1) Do you think faith/religion is here to control the masses?

Let us consider this teaching by St Paul:

Galatians 1:8-9 (New International Version)

8) But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned

9)As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

Doesn't this control the masses in two ways:

1) Fear of being condemned.
2) Teaches to condemn of others.

Christianity teaches this despite Jesus' teaching "DO NOT CONDEMN OR YOU WILL BE CONDEMNED"

According to St Paul's version Jesus is teaching "another Gospel" from the condemnatory one Paul is preaching

Most religion, not all, is false. It is "Social Religion" or religion about being good and proper. At best, it is "religion" about keeping society healthy. Nothing wrong with that, it is in peoples best interest to be good, it results in less harm coming to oneself in consequences. But it has nothing to do with real spirituality. Real spirituality is about raising the spirit to higher planes, exhausting karmic debt and gaining reliance on the real avenue of salvation. This process must been done in the human form during ones lifetime. It's too late afterwords. The whole point of human birth is for one to avail themselves of this opportunity. For that reason and because the real opportunity is now here on earth, the Devil is doing everything to prevent it. This "Real Spirituality" has never been and a part traditional "Organized Religion". Though, occasionally, a spirit incarnates within those ranks of a higher order providing some assistance to those in personal contact. Even though the Vatican created Islam to facilitates the conquest of the middle east, within Islam great souls such as Shams Tabriz, Hafiz, Rumi and others incarnated. In the west, Swedenborg and Saint Peter. In India, despite the carrier endeavors of the priests, many true souls such as Kabir, Tulsi Das, Guru Nanak, Paltu Saheb and many others delivered true spiritual benefit, again, only to those who where in direct contact with them.

What passes throughout the world as religion is really about priests earning a living or more appropriately getting a free ride by deceiving others and often themselves. Control is, at the very least, the indirect practice of Social Religion in order to guarantee the perpetuation of the income stream.

reply to post by MyXlog



Thank you for the NT scripture...GREAT STUFF!

OT thinks JC is the Son of God, and He AGGRESSIVELY met Saul of Tarsus who became the Apostle Paul....MyXlog, u too?

Originally posted by ReelView
Control is, at the very least, the indirect practice of Social Religion in order to guarantee the perpetuation of the income stream.

Yes!

Sad, but true...thanks for the post ReelView

Originally posted by OldThinker


OT thinks JC is the Son of God, and He AGGRESSIVELY met Saul of Tarsus who became the Apostle Paul....MyXlog, u too?

OH! So you're saying that its OK to decide who is condemned or not and that JC would approve of this approach? I'm sure condemned then

Originally posted by MyXlog

Originally posted by OldThinker


OT thinks JC is the Son of God, and He AGGRESSIVELY met Saul of Tarsus who became the Apostle Paul....MyXlog, u too?

OH! So you're saying that its OK to decide who is condemned or not and that JC would approve of this approach?

I'm sure condemned then

NO????

I'm not saying that at all....

SLOOOOW DOOOOWN!!!!!!


Re-read it....try again without your assumptions...it was a....QUESTION

R-E-L-A-X!!!!


Answer it, and then you can TEACH/INSTRUCT OT in anything, ok?

woosaaa!

Yes. Because the stories of creation were around long before Jesus Christ and the 12 apostles. They were passed down through oral traditions before they were finally recorded by the Sumerians.

Though a hint as to where we got the notion of God is inscribed in the Sumerian tablets. The gods in those stories actually believed in an omniscient God and talked about whether or not they were in fact play god when they created the human race. Interesting read.

2) Why?

Because it's easy to see once you know the source material for the bible, that it wasn't written for those purposes. Initially it was verbal record of a pissing contest between these so called gods passed down through word of mouth. It explains the origins of mankind.

The whole religious thing happened because each of these gods wanted to be known as the supreme deity. Eventually one of them triumphed and then it became one god.

That doesn't change the fact that the Yahweh 'God' of the bible, is in fact many gods rolled into one. If you really want to know about it how bout you read it your self. Ignorance is bliss I guess.


3) Your evidence?

It's not my evidence, it's just evidence. Look up Sumerian mythology.

4) Did you once believe?

I have always believed in an omniscient God. It was just something I had felt since i can remember. It has nothing to do with the God/gods in the bible. Sumerian tales. Though we have them to thank for us actually being taught about it.

5) Did you change?

Change is normal, we all change.

6) Why are you an atheist?

I'm Not!

7) Why are you an agnostic?

Because you can't definitively prove God exists. The proof will be when we die.

8) Why you are a christian?

Religion is control and fear! I don't need a group of people to affirm my belief in a God. Some people are more attuned than others and need a book to tell them this.

The only thing you need to know is that Jesus was not God and that he was more than likely one of these attuned people who was trying to teach dumb people how to get a higher plain. I see not much has changed.

9) What ‘SHOULD‘ God look like/act like/be like?

He should look like Papa Smurf.

Originally posted by Quiintus


The only thing you need to know is that Jesus was not God and that he was more than likely one of these attuned people who was trying to teach dumb people how to get a higher plain. I see not much has changed.

Well thank you for sharing your answers, this one, however intrigues (sp:puz me....from where do you base your opinion here?

OT

So JC was just a nice good man? A prophet, maybe?

Originally posted by Quiintus

9) What ‘SHOULD‘ God look like/act like/be like?

He should look like Papa Smurf.

I did always respect that blue-bearded dude

reply to post by OldThinker


(1) Not faith/religion itself but the organization of it with the interupt like me mindset or you are wrong.

(2) The words in the bible speak differently to me than they do to the man that stands behind the pulpit. I wasn't taught how to think God lets me think for myself and guides me in understanding.

(3) The bible says its not for individual interuptation. To me that means it's for one to see on each level of meaning as one progresses in spirituality. To the organized religion it means think like we say it means and do not question what we say it means.

(4) I've always had strong belief in God. Even though I can't see something does not mean that the works of him are unseen.

(5) Any change would be that my convictions to find the truth are stronger as I grow older. To be the stray and not part of the herd and believe like I am told I have to.

(6) I'm not

(7) I'm not

(8) I'm a spiritualist. I take into consideration all teachers that try to guide you on the way to making the inside what it should be so it shows on the outside. In the on going quest to perfect the spirit one shouldn't limit themselves to just one teacher. For all we know thru history important things have been left out of the great masters teachings. Or maybe the wording of one makes everything more clearer to you that another one might of lost you on.

(9) I can't say what he should look like. But I see him in the smiles of young children, the saddness in the eyes of parents that loose their children, The faces of love between parent and children, the eyes of young and old lovers when together, I see his strength in peoples faces that carry on against the odds, I guess I see God in the expressions/actions and emotions of people in the world. I even see him in the eyes of my dog when he looks at me. So I see him but I can't tell you what he looks like its unexplainable its something you have to see for yourself.

What should he be like..the good parent who sometimes has to use tough love. I think he does a pretty darn good job at it also.

(9)

reply to post by napayshni57


I don't have much time to respond in details now, thanks for the well-thought-thru post!

he's sayin that religion was used to control people in those situations

Name a religion which doesn't control. You don't have to respond.

If you follow / support a 'faith' then your life is being controlled by that faith is it not?

Especially when one is told this is right and this s wrong, and you will do this my way etc.

That's dictatorship surely.

Perhaps the greatest control factor is FEAR . You indeed see much fear being generated through various forms of religious doctrine.

If God did not give us a spirit of fear, and somewhere down the road, we find a lingering fear within us, we have to ask where that fear came from. I am speaking of fear, in the respect of one's eternal destination.

The worst thing anyone can do is to allow a man, or men, however they will, direct fear toward you in an effort to sway you in their direction. Men love control and usually, via religious doctrine, that is where the masses are controlled.

It is good to have a teacher, but not good to have a manipulator.

Originally posted by Thistled
Name a religion which doesn't control. You don't have to respond.

If you follow / support a 'faith' then your life is being controlled by that faith is it not?

Especially when one is told this is right and this s wrong, and you will do this my way etc.

That's dictatorship surely.

Hey Thisled, what's up? Hope all is well...thanks for posting on OT's humble thread...

I go to a non-denominational church, about 1000 people, great kids and teenager, sunday school/youth group programs...been around since about 1950. Had only 4 pastors in that time...

I do admit I have boundaries in my life that scripture gives me...check out those lives in 30 yrs that have a deep respect for Chrisitanity....I'm a statistician, I know this stuff...you'll find stability, contentment and goodness....


I have no time for "legalists" though that push rules over relationship...here's an example of what I believe...thoughts?

Link: search.live.com...

true faith is not about control but freedom...at least from my perspective...?

Originally posted by jdposey
Perhaps the greatest control factor is FEAR . You indeed see much fear being generated through various forms of religious doctrine.

If God did not give us a spirit of fear, and somewhere down the road, we find a lingering fear within us, we have to ask where that fear came from. I am speaking of fear, in the respect of one's eternal destination.

Great thought...OT is reminded of the verse...

2 Timothy 1:7...
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

The word for "fear" in the verse above is not referring to general fear as it is commonly known. The word in the original greek language is not 'phobos' (foboV) but rather is 'deilias' (deiliaV) which means "cowardice". God has not given us a spirit of cowardice.

The actual context of the words of 2 Timothy 1:7 refers to partaking in the difficulties of the work of sharing the good news of the free gift of salvation and not to wimp out.

link: dokimos.org...

OT'll take power, love and a sound mind over fear anyday...

Originally posted by napayshni57
[
(8) I'm a spiritualist. I take into consideration all teachers that try to guide you on the way to making the inside what it should be so it shows on the outside. In the on going quest to perfect the spirit one shouldn't limit themselves to just one teacher. For all we know thru history important things have been left out of the great masters teachings. Or maybe the wording of one makes everything more clearer to you that another one might of lost you on.

Thanks for posting...

"...consideration of all teachers..."

Yes there is merit in truth, no matter who says it...however, what do you do with the HARD SAYINGS from JC? The "i'm the ONLY way, stuff?

JC is who He said He is...or...an idiot who lied or was a lunatic...no room for good guy, wise teacher...not logical to OT


Chronicle of Narnia Author CS Lewis has said...

"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronising nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to. ... Now it seems to me obvious that He was neither a lunatic nor a fiend: and consequently, however strange or terrifying or unlikely it may seem, I have to accept the view that He was and is God." [4]

link: en.wikipedia.org...'s_trilemma

OT'll take power, love and a sound mind over fear anyday...

Yes, especially a sound mind . Sometimes I think that is going by the wayside when it comes to all the opinions in regard to faith and the scriptures.

Originally posted by jdposey

OT'll take power, love and a sound mind over fear anyday...

Yes, especially a sound mind . Sometimes I think that is going by the wayside when it comes to all the opinions in regard to faith and the scriptures.

opinions are like ___holes, everyone's got one and the usually stink

I've found that after studying God's Word on a regular basis, I actually got SMARTER...wierd I know...

Back in the day OT was a B/C student at best in HS, after Bible College, I grasped things better...and at 22, if you would have said OT you are going to______ when you are an adult, I would have said, "what's you smokin'?"

but it's true...now...and I owe it all to the Bible, I like the verse...."

For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than a two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit...Hebrews 4:12

Originally posted by bignick
How did Rome conquer Europe ?

How did Mohammad conquer middle east ?

How do pastors get laid ?

[edit on 4-2-2009 by bignick]

bignick, with all those stars for your post, OT thinks you may have been in the right thread...???....care to back those claims?

OT

PS: And what's with the edit for the 'pastors' comment