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Why would anyone say ‘religion’ is here…to ‘control’ people?

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posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 07:45 AM
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Originally posted by dariousg

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by The Bald Champion
isn't Earth just a test ?



yep!

It appears that way....

You passin?

OT


This is yet another part of the 'system' that I no longer hold faith in. Earth, and life on it, is not a test that will pass or fail. One where passing means eternal life on your hands and knees worshipping 'God' or where you fail that you are sent to eternal fire and brimstone.

You do not see the manipulation being thrown at people in that? Do you honestly think that the creator of all, the one that created each and every one of us out of LOVE would seriously have done so for us to WORSHIP it?

I'm sorry my friend. I realize you have your time on this earth and your experience to convince you that this is so but I cannot see it.




Thanks D for the point...

TIME...

WILL....

TELL...


OT'll b watching




posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 07:49 AM
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Originally posted by dariousg
I'm not attacking your faith. Just the illogic of some of the teachings. Because I fully believe that the message that Jesus brought is extremely important. It's just not quite what most are being taught today. Why? Because if his true message was indeed taught then people would realize there is NO NEED FOR CHURCH!



Appreciate the caveat....please don't worry, OT's got big shoulders
and a big belly


OT

Church is important though...see Hebrews 3:13 and think about the inverse



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 07:49 AM
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Originally posted by OldThinker. Let's see a world without the 10 commandments....

It seems to me that if you think the world would be different without the 10 commandments, then you, too, must think that religion is a controlling force.

Not that following them is a bad thing.



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by prjct
I think that anyone who says that religion is here to control people more than likely has had some experience with religion which allows them to share the obvious truth....Religion, the word is rarely found in the Bible - some translations show it is used or found only six or seven times - yet is is all the rave today.

Religion does not equal God



Lotta wisdom there P!

OT



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 07:52 AM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 



You can't know the truth by your five senses alone, it is impossible, it is because of the physical limitation of our perceptions.

Spiritual things can not be analyzed they can only be ascertained.

Religion in and of itself is meaningless but it is used by men without conscience to capture a new believers mind, in order to prevent them from growing and developing themselves spiritually to the point of manifesting the power of God in life.

From the angle of God to man, if you have a religion you place more importance on than the truth of God, then that religious belief contaminates you, you are not pure or holy in the sight of God.

Your belief must be correct for God to act, religion introduces errors into the belief machinery of life.

---------

Today's installment from: WIG'N
"What Is God Network" WIG'N out on the things of God.

WIG'N 22: Pretending
Link: /d9b7cw

---------------



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 07:52 AM
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Originally posted by Learhoag
["Christians, as well as all religious believers, are mentally-conditioned.



YOOOO ADRIAN!!!!! HE'S MENTALLY-IRREGULAR!"

We should discuss this myth more...but my battery is fading fast


[edit on 7-2-2009 by OldThinker]



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by newday
reply to post by OldThinker
 



You can't know the truth by your five senses alone, it is impossible, it is because of the physical limitation of our perceptions.

Spiritual things can not be analyzed they can only be ascertained.




Thx!! Good points...could it be a combination of both? Let's not limit...

OT



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by subject x

Originally posted by OldThinker. Let's see a world without the 10 commandments....

It seems to me that if you think the world would be different without the 10 commandments, then you, too, must think that religion is a controlling force.

Not that following them is a bad thing.



Did I ever say there was "no boundaries"?

OT



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
Nice reply...let's focus on the above....was JC of God, a prophet, or what?


I don't know why he needs to be labelled. Certainly from what he said, (not from what others said of him), he is no different to any of the other prophets in the testaments. At the end of the day these are all just people. Great people, but people none the less, like Isaac Newton, Copernicus, Galileo, Marco Polo, Dr.Livingston, Rameses II, Julis Caesar, Charlemagne, Barbarossa, Richard II and Saladin.

All of these people are great people and leaders in some way or another.
The "christian" notion that God has a plan for all of us would imply that all of these people achieved what they did by the grace of God and so really their feats are no less extraordinary than those of the prohphets.

I won't even touch on the myriad Saints and why they are any different.

[edit on 7-2-2009 by CloudySkye]



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by OldThinkerDid I ever say there was "no boundaries"?

Not to my recollection, no, but you're splitting a pretty fine hair there.
What is a boundry if not a control point? The commandments are pretty much the "big 10" when it comes to sins. If you do not follow them, and do not repent/confess them, you're going to burn in hell, if I remember my religious teachings right. That right there is a form of control. A kind of "do as I say or you'll be sorry" deal.

If that's not an attempt at controlling the masses, I don't know what is and should probably be in a different thread.



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by observer28
reply to post by OldThinker
 


Normally, I'm quite aggressive with theists and other religious types, mainly due to my impatience for their nonsense and infantile behavior. However, OT, you come across as a reasonable person and an exception to my personal rule. Valid questions you have posed, however, I have one for you, for starters: What is the purpose of this line of questioning?




O, I almost ran off the road trying to read your question on the treo yesterday and have thought about it all night...took my daughter to skating this morning, brought the computer and was ready to dig in and answer you completely....got to Panera's, got the coffee got the egg sandwich thing....and FORGOT THE DAMN POWERCORD!!!


So here's the quick version....

1) I like to learn/like people/like new ideas
2) I like JC/His Word and praying for people
3) I've got the time

Biblically James 3:17 is a great motivator for me...But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy.

[edit on 7-2-2009 by OldThinker]



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by subject x

Originally posted by OldThinkerDid I ever say there was "no boundaries"?

Not to my recollection, no, but you're splitting a pretty fine hair there.
What is a boundry if not a control point? The commandments are pretty much the "big 10" when it comes to sins. If you do not follow them, and do not repent/confess them, you're going to burn in hell, if I remember my religious teachings right. That right there is a form of control. A kind of "do as I say or you'll be sorry" deal.

If that's not an attempt at controlling the masses, I don't know what is and should probably be in a different thread.



Sorry for the short responses, I would like to dialog later once I've got some power hooked up to this thing...

One question: Think of the ripple effect with the inverse of what I'm saying...to each his own...????....survival of the fittest....????....bad thing, I surmise? I dunno?



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by Pericle


4) Did you once believe?

Yes, I was born as a Christian.




hmm?????

Could you please explain this one?

OT



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by CloudySkye

Originally posted by OldThinker
Nice reply...let's focus on the above....was JC of God, a prophet, or what?


I don't know why he needs to be labelled. Certainly from what he said, (not from what others said of him), he is no different to any of the other prophets in the testaments. At the end of the day these are all just people. Great people, but people none the less, like Isaac Newton, Copernicus, Galileo, Marco Polo, Dr.Livingston, Rameses II, Julis Caesar, Charlemagne, Barbarossa, Richard II and Saladin.


Do prophets lie?
Do prophets spend time in pysch wards?

C, JC is either the GOD OF THE UNIVERSE or a sick dude...no other option...logically speaking..for more info see.. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here's the Crux...."...whom do you say IAM..."



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by OldThinkerSorry for the short responses, I would like to dialog later once I've got some power hooked up to this thing...

No problem, take your time...

One question: Think of the ripple effect with the inverse of what I'm saying...to each his own...????....survival of the fittest....????....bad thing, I surmise? I dunno?

Actually, I don't think there would be that much difference. Individuals have kept their killing instincts pretty much under control since way before the commandments in order to insure mutual survival. Nations/empires, for the most part, don't seem to care about the commandments, then or now, and do pretty much whatever they want.

Whether "to each his own....survival of the fittest" is good or bad is really a moot point for the sake of your topic. Control is control, even if the controllers have the best of intentions. If the commandments are intended to make people's lives "better", that is still an attempt at controlling the masses which is what your thread is about.

That's how I see it, anyway.



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 08:38 AM
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Originally posted by subject x
Whether "to each his own....survival of the fittest" is good or bad is really a moot point for the sake of your topic. Control is control, even if the controllers have the best of intentions. If the commandments are intended to make people's lives "better", that is still an attempt at controlling the masses which is what your thread is about.

That's how I see it, anyway.



Nah, that's fair....


In my mind, when I started the thread I was thinking "control" as a bad thing....but you are right that "control" can be applied technically to any rule...speeding limits.......or even, the divinity of Jesus!!
You are right!



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
Do prophets lie?
Do prophets spend time in pysch wards?

C, JC is either the GOD OF THE UNIVERSE or a sick dude...no other option...logically speaking..for more info see.. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here's the Crux...."...whom do you say IAM..."


All that is known about the prophets is what was written about them long ago and subsequently rewritten many times in translations and interpretations. Now I can't say whether anybody has found any evidence of there being psychiatric hospitals in the times of the old testament but I'll bet you my bottom dollar that the prophets lied just like everybody else. People wouldnt comment on it for 2 reasons.
1 They have no reason to say that they lied because everybody has lied and it is therefore a given that the prophets lied, indulged in 'carnal pleasures', got angry violent even.
2 When people write about somebody that they want to make look good in a story, they rarely reveal any negative aspects of that character. eg, nowhere in the bible do any of the disciples, prophets or even Jesus himself, break wind or 'go to the bathroom' and yet they must have done. Just because it is not written it does not mean that it didn't happen, also just because it is written, it does not mean that it did happen. Just look at the Da Vinci Code.



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 08:46 AM
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reply to post by CloudySkye
 




Bible prophets are not Criskin...they are required to be 100% accurate...no Chris Angel....wiggle roooooom.

Bible prophecies are almost always specific and detailed. Fulfillment of bible prophecies are usually obvious and are always 100 percent accurate. In fact, the bible itself has something to say about knowing whether or not a person giving a prophecy is a true prophet of God or not.

"When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him." Deu. 18:22

= = = = = =

Bottom line JC is God...or should be shunned as an idiot!!!



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 08:57 AM
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Well guys....th eole battery monitor in the right corner, just got a fat red 'X' over it...so that's it for now...


Again OT appreciates the time you've taken here...see you in a while, hopefully tonight/tomorow

God bless, if I can say that ?



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 09:03 AM
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If religion wasn't established to control people, it has in any case been badly abused for the purpose!




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