If you're getting behind NH, MO, OK, and WA in their stand against the Federal gov't, Arizona is n

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posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 06:48 PM
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anyone seen this video?

www.youtube.com...





posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 12:08 AM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 



www.tickerforum.org...

The people over at tickerforum have been watching this issue:

"Basically, it has come to the attention of the 'political class' that the people are pissed off, so there is a movement to find some way to appease and soothe them before they get all irate and decide to start shooting the politico's brains out.
....
The effort is coordinated - but not to protect the citizens - it is to placate them because they're becoming.....disgruntled. "


from the recently retired state legislative rep
:


"Maybe the resolution came out of ALEC. If not them, some other ideology group with lots of friends in the states. You know, some donor or irritating constit. gets hopped up about this, it looks both harmless and virtuous, so the path of least resistance is to introduce it. GOP bodies that lean conservative will pass these (voice vote only), and more statist bodies won't. Bottom line: Nothing changes anywhere.

The relevence to this resolution: Meaningless resolutions are one of the many tools members of the political class use to keep the boobs mystified while they play enablers to the continuing operations and growth of the welfare/regulatory state. Opsommer (sponsor of the resolution) is better than most of his class, and I don't mean to pick on him, but at heart he's still a believer in the welfare state, and he thinks the concept of genuine limited government is obsolete (and that people who promote it are weird).

I've become very cynical about this kind of position-taking not because it's practitioners are (necessarily) bad people (rather than misguided), but because the people vs. the political class concept suggests that restoring true representative government requires a very different approach. Frankly, we're still trying to figure out what that approach is.

...We need to create a "shared grievance" that ties together the hundreds and thousands of smaller facts that our movement will have exposed and pursued regarding the failures, dishonesties and dysfunctions of government. Under a people vs. the political class model, all of these discrete stories become part of an overarching meta-narrative - but that narrative is not, "Government is and always will be incompetent." Instead, the refrain becomes, "That's the kind of thing that happens when people lose control of their government."


basically, they are actively working against us because they're afraid of us, but they want us to think they're on our side.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 10:08 AM
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Trying to get a rep in my state to sponsor similar legislation. Most are bogged down in budget issues this year. Thanks for the information and the call to arms.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by bpg131313
reply to post by orangetom1999
 


That's all the more reason for States to declare their sovereignty. I know it's coming down the road, we're spending way to much and this "stimulus" bill is growing more by the day. It's absurd. At this point I almost relish the idea of a federal collapse so the States can start doing things on their own. If we keep this union, we'll have to ensure that safeguards are in place to severely limit spending by the federal government.

As things exist today though, I'd rather the States handle their business themselves.


I have always been for states rights and individual responsibility. However ..this does not mean that one cannot get the same variety of crooks and entitlement thinking peoples in state governments. You most certainly can. The states of Illinois, New York and others are classic historical examples.

Agree about the stimulus packages..It is a continuation of buying up votes on the public purse. Promoting the various political parties at public expense to maintain power and control.

I too sometimes relish the idea of a Federal collapse. However...as a matter of historical record..there are very few times that a government has collapsed and the replacement government was better than the one it replaced. Most often the crooks and swindlers..those power greedy ...take back over and it is worse than the government it replaced.

The only government I can think of which replaced a bad government and a better one succeded it..is the United States Constitution. Someone has been working for many years to seduce this government and people into such infighting that it will collapse. We are very far away from the original intent and also a sound money system based on a system of Just weights and measures that the government/banking system working in cahoots cannot borrow moneys unlimited like drunken whores. Their machinations give real whores/hookers a bad name if one even can imagine that.

LOL LOL LOL ...real hookers being more honest and noble than politicians.

Well they do give a real honest service for their labors..not so with most politicians hooked on deficit spending.

If government had to tax the public directly for the moneys they are spending they would have been overthrown many years ago.

Deficits are a way of borrowing and taxing the public by inflation in a manner not seen by them so the public is not all that aware it is going on.
However ..there comes a day when payment is due!!! And the price will be paid one way or another. Government financing of public education will not educate us on this one. You have to be capable of reading history to see it.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 01:52 PM
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I had a meeting with one of my state reps today on other business. Like most he is buried in budgetary problems. However, I made him aware of HCR-6 and the other legislation in other states and he is very interested in making a similar filing in our (New England) state.

And for the psoter worried about secessionist issues, this has nothing to do with seceding nor starting a civil war. Just reeling-in federal government.

Also, regarding the states' tax issues, you'd be floored by how much of a state's budget is required to be spent on federal programs. It's staggering. And the states have no idea where this money actually goes.



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by jtma508

Also, regarding the states' tax issues, you'd be floored by how much of a state's budget is required to be spent on federal programs. It's staggering. And the states have no idea where this money actually goes.


jtma508 is correct here. This is indeed one of the sore spots with many states. They must spend the moneys to support numerous Federal Programs ..not the state requirements.

Once again in line with the concept that people can better spend their moneys on thier own decisions and thier own needs...this also applies to the states as well.

As I stated in a previous post...no one in Washington D. C. is looking out for the states now that the 17th Amendment is in force and electing State Senators by popular vote. You now have two Houses of Represenatives in Washington D. C. , not a House and a Senate. The purpose of Senators is to look out for the buisness of the States..not the people in the states. The people are to be represenated by thier State Represenatives apportioned by population. THe Senators were originally to be determined by vote of the state governments. It should go back to this system as originally intended by the Constitution of the United States. The 17th Amendment was for the purpose of breaking up the checks and balances of the power of the individual states over the Federal Government. This way an overpowering Federal Government could be instituted and this has continued ever since..with the Feds overpowering all state government operations..as outlined appropriately by jitma 508

Well said jitma508...well said.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 10:38 PM
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The south has probably not joined in because their afraid of the chastising that would follow if they declared their soveringty. After they tried the first time, things did not turn out so well. If they tried again it would be spun as a new "uprising" and would have everyone in an uproar and ready to squash them.



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 01:01 AM
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In North Carolina, (normally, very economically successful), the state is facing a 2 billion deficit!!! Where in the heck is all the money going? We could pave a road with diamonds with that kinda money.

As a solution, they are suggeting making a new tax. joy. This tax would be on North Carolina citizens who download anything they pay for.

Again we see horrible leaders punish the folks. Do they ship our leaders from another planet or something?





posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 03:53 PM
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I didn't see this article posted in this thread, and even though it's from WorldNetDaily, I thought it worth mentioning.

Lawmakers in 20 states move to reclaim sovereignty



As the Obama administration attempts to push through Congress a nearly $1 trillion deficit spending plan that is weighted heavily toward advancing typically Democratic-supported social welfare programs, a rebellion against the growing dominance of federal control is beginning to spread at the state level.

So far, eight states have introduced resolutions declaring state sovereignty under the Ninth and Tenth Amendment to the Constitution, including Arizona, Hawaii, Montana, Michigan, Missouri, New Hampshire, Oklahoma and Washington.

Analysts expect that in addition, another 20 states may see similar measures introduced this year, including Alaska, Alabama, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Nevada, Maine and Pennsylvania.



It's also my understanding that Colorado has a measure being considered in committee right now.

[edit on 2/7/09 by GirlNextDoor]



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 09:41 PM
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I bet you'll be hearing more about this movement real fast...

States to Congress: Send money fast
Governors and mayors nationwide are hungry for billions from the economic rescue plan to create jobs and fill budget gaps.
money.cnn.com...

Notice this: Fully Eliminated

• $40 billion for state fiscal stabilization (includes $7.5 billion of state incentive grants) •


Senate, House eye different stimuli priorities
It's not just Republicans vs. Democrats; each chamber has different focus
www.msnbc.msn.com...

WASHINGTON - The Senate agreement on a roughly $827 billion economic stimulus bill sets up tough negotiations with the House primarily over tens of billions of dollars in aid to states and local governments, tax provisions, and education, health and renewable energy programs.

But the competing bills now reflect substantially different approaches. The House puts greater emphasis on helping states and localities avoid wide-scale cuts in services and layoffs of public employees, while the Senate cut $40 billion of that type of aid from its bill.


What got cut from the stimulus bill
www.cnn.com...

[edit on 2/8/2009 by Hx3_1963]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 02:14 AM
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posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 04:26 PM
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Americans have gravitated to states that fit their own personal and social agendas.

That's why I'm proud to live in Arizona.

Most other nationalities don't understand just how different the attitudes and regulations in each state actually are, and our structure encourages individualism, the enemy of socialism, something which seeks to create an amorphous state.

I could definitely see a point coming where a state attempts to secede from the union, and that could mean conflict.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 08:44 PM
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Interesting how if the governors dont go along with the feds or banking rulers, something seems to happen to them! Classic. And yet no one picks up on any of this. Is the tide finally turning? Amazing what we dont know and wouldn't ever think happens either. Reminds me of how many can't find iraq on a map, let alone understand why we are really there. Incredible and sad! Other countries look to the US to lead the way....where is anyone's guess!


[edit on 8-2-2009 by dodadoom]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 



CIVILIANS WOULD BE DECIMATED BY THE U.S. MILITARY IN A MATTER OF HOURS NOT DAYS, CIVIL WAR IN YOUR DREAMS BUT NOT IN REALITY!!!



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 09:26 PM
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AND IF ARIZONA IS ANY INDICATION OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE CALLING FOR THIS THEN IT IS DEFINATELY A LOSING CAUSE BECAUSE ARIZONA HANDS DOWN HAS SOME OF THE MOST WHACKED OUT WEIRDOS I HAVE EVER MET ANYWHERE IN MY LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IM NOT SAYING ALL ZONIES ARE WHACK JOBS JUST 98% OF THEM, I MEAN COME ON EVEN NEW MEXICO BEING RIGHT NEXT DOOR HAS A MORE SANE POPULATION AND THE PEOPLE ARE AWESOME!!!!!



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by whatukno
Yes because the first civil war wasn't bad enough. Let's start up a new civil war.
GREAT idea!

You know how Obama got elected? He did it by uniting people towards a goal. To change our government we must collectively do the same, not threaten to secede from the union. We as Americans must stand united against our government and say "STOP ROBING OUR TREASURY!"

letter writing, phone calls, emails, YouTube videos. A collective effort on the part of the majority of Americans that voted for change and are seeing more and more of the same. We the people hold the power, We the people are the United States, it's damn time for us to remember that.


The problme is there are about 50 million of us who didn't agree with or vote for Osama.

Those 50 Million probably have all the guns and I would be willing to go back to what the constitution ment by any means necessary. Sometimes the herd needs to be thinned and I would say the entire left in this country wants a free ride at the expense of those who do work and pay their bills.

What Bush did will look like a golden age in 2010, 2011 and 2012. Inflation will sky rocket and we will be third world. I expect nothing less from a black president. Like all the others running countries they have destoryed every one and that's a cold solid fact no one can deny.

We need a civil war to stop this madness.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 10:37 PM
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posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 11:07 PM
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"We have, in this country, one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board. This evil institution has impoverished the people of the United States and has practically bankrupted our government. It has done this through the corrupt practices of the" moneyed vultures who control it". -- Congressman Louis T. McFadden in 1932 (Rep. Pa)


“Nothing in politics ever happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way."- Franklin D. Roosevelt-


WHEN CORPORATE POWER AND GOVERNMENT COMBINE IT IS CALLED FASCISM.



Our rights as Americans have all ready fallen out .
We are blind and deaf to the atrocities our Gov. perpetuates upon it's own people
and the peoples of the world.

Surprisingly we still retain the right to vote and can choose persons who will work to keep 'our' best interests
on the for front of all issues. Yet we use very little common sence when doing so. We vote for the lesser of the two evils and get what we ask for.

If we truely think that the 'common man should be heard', then we should Elect the common man.. not the elites and allow them to pervert all that our Constitution is based on.

We are a Nation of self abusers.

I My self, want our Rights taken back by us, and the Government of the United States striped of its illegally obtained supremacy, over "We the People" and criminal prosecution to the fullest extent of our
Constitutional Law.



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by whatukno
 

We do not hold any power. We gave that up ages ago. This country is not, and should not be, set up as a democracy, but as a republic. We gave the power to congress to "represent" us, the people, but it is congress who has abandoned us so they can continually have more power and more money. Why else should a sane person serve in this culture.
Imoral people will continually do imoral things.
You want to see where we are going...look at Rome. It started as a republic (when it chose to have a government), and flourished. The government protected the people, and the people were able to produce. But then...the people became complacent, productivity went down, and the people turned to the government to solve their problems, and the government did. Food, housing, support...and again productivity declined. Why work when the Gov will feed and house me. But because productivity declined so badly, the Gov could not feed and house the people. The folks who wanted everything had nothing and they revolted. Soon after, Rome was in ruins, an oligarcy (sp sorry) started, and finally the Cesars entered the picture.
Gee....see any similarities here....who will be our Cesar!



posted on Mar, 29 2009 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


Why do so many people assume that this is an attempt at secession? The one filed here in Texas is an affirmation of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Maintaining per the 10th Amendment that:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

They are reminding the federal government that the states and the people have sovereignty over these powers, that the government may not usurp them for any reason. The federal government is an agent of the people and the states, the government has forgotten this, and they must be reminded.

One possible example is California and the medical marijuana controversy. The people of California voted on and passed Prop. 215, and the federal government promptly responded with a "f--k the will of the people" approach, by having the DEA raid state licensed dispensaries in California.

This attitude towards the people does not represent the ideals of a democratic republic.

[edit on 29-3-2009 by bloodWolf762]





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