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Kyrgyz government submits bill to close US base

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posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:52 AM
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Kyrgyz government submits bill to close US base


news.yahoo.com

BISHKEK, Kyrgyzstan – Kyrgyzstan's government submitted a draft bill to parliament Wednesday that would close a U.S. base that is key to the American military campaign in Afghanistan.

The move came a day after President Kurmanbek Bakiyev said the base would be shuttered and shortly after the Central Asian nation secured billions of dollars in loans and aid from Russia, which resents the American presence in a country that Moscow regards as part of its traditional sphere of influence.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:52 AM
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This comes in the wake of the destruction of a key bridge in the Coalition supply route through Pakistan and attacks on supply convoys in Pakistan.

Manas Airbase is a another key component in the Coalition logistics network. If both it and Pakistan are removed from the logistic network, all that is left is Bagram Airbase.

Bagram Airbase at this time simply cannot support all of the logistic operations for all Coalition forces in Afghanistan. If US forces are cut off from the logistics network, drastic and I mean drastic measures will be taken. The kind that involve the US securing a corridor from the Indian ocean to Afghanistan.





news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:02 AM
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Our governments plan is to transfer our troops to Afghanistan from Iraq.

Is this move by Russia going to have an effect on our war in Afghanistan?

Do you think this is a move against the United States by Russia?

Please forgive my ignorance about the situation. I'm eager to learn and keep up with our military possibilities.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:08 AM
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This is GOOD NEWS!!

Just a few hundred more bases to be closed down around the world, and could you imagine the cost it would save the taxpayers?



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


Just heard it on the World Service. A thread was posted earlier today:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Moscow are linking arms with 6 former Soviet states (all the 'stans' & Belarus) to create a combined emergency responce force. Check the thread and its link.

Does anyone share a similar feeling of escalation & acceleration?



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by dizziedame
Our governments plan is to transfer our troops to Afghanistan from Iraq.

Is this move by Russia going to have an effect on our war in Afghanistan?

Do you think this is a move against the United States by Russia?

Please forgive my ignorance about the situation. I'm eager to learn and keep up with our military possibilities.


It will have extreme effect if all we have left is Bagram Airbase. This means we will not be to support and sustain operations by current forces much less augment those forces.

I don't think its a move against the US. Its more of a move against US influence in what Russia considers its sphere of influence.

What could ultimately result is that we will secure our own corridor through Pakistan's North-West Frontier Province and Azad Kashmir into India.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 10:23 AM
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Good thread...I was writing one at the same time...but I will join yours!

I will star and flag this thread as I see it is a bold move toward the tipping point in the area.

Not that Russia or the US want this.




Q+A: Kyrgyz closure of base hurts U.S. aims


It’s a new chess game. Players. Putin vs Obama. Putin is on home turf.

(Home team)Pawn to King 4.

Visiting team now must move.

The prize is the Caspian Basin, The Artic Region, Eastern European influence, Far Eastern Influence and the lever is oil.

Putin is smart. Up until Obama came into influence I silently agreed with most of the world that Putin was a worthy foe of even the best statesman in US and Canadian history. As you can imagine Putin, whose whole persona oozes Russian Nationalism, is salivating at the chance to defeat the US in Afghanistan as this would help toward further destabilization of the unique position held by the United States of America as not only the leader of the free world but the leader of the whole world. Bush had all but lost this war of influence and Putin has used the iconic archetype of a “Bush America" to solidify his position with many of the former Soviet Union states allowing Russia increased leverage upon the world stage.

Obama, the whole idea of Obama, is a bold diplomatic move which has helped to raise the internal hope of nations (nations being used as a people group in this sentence) who see the President as the living embodiment of the prophesy of MLK in that "all men/women are created equal'. In one move, with the election of Obama the hopes of whole continents has shifted resulting in Russia bringing KGB hero Putin back to the throne of Russia.

Both of these ideas, the Putonic Russian Nationalism as well as the "New American Nationalism" under Obama will be used as the Queens in this new chess game.

If a citizen of any NATO country can see the nation of Afghanistan touches the border of many important geographical tipping points.

The former Soviet Union understood this, thinking Afghanistan a worthy prize, marched over the country only to discover a Pandora's Box. The defeat of the Soviet Union by a rag tag bunch of drug dealers aided by the CIA helped down the Soviet Union, the most feared regime on earth at the time.

With the closing of this base and the battles that take place on the Pushtin highway, if you can call it that, (I would call it a pock marked s#$t road) a noose may be dangling at the throat of NATO in Afghanistan allowing the Russian Bear to sniff the blood of a wounded foe.

Imagine the glee of Putin if he could create another Viet Nam defeat for America.

A Russian General comments..."One political analyst in Moscow said it was "the worst moment for such move." For who is my question!

US General replies...* The Pentagon has described the Manas airbase, where 1,000 personnel are based, as "hugely important" but the U.S. State Department has said operations in Afghanistan can continue without it.





The chess game continues.

uk.reuters.com...

www.msnbc.msn.com...

www.timesonline.co.uk...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


www.abovetopsecret.com...


www.abovetopsecret.com...








[edit on 4-2-2009 by whiteraven]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 11:26 AM
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This move by Kyrgyzstan was foreseen for some time now among those who are aware of what has been taking place there since the US "moved in" in 2002. Here is some background:


Kyrgyzstan was one of the first Asian nations to offer US its support and use of its bases during the start in the war in Afghanistan in 2001-2002. It so happens that Kyrgyzstan has very well-developed military infrastructure since the USSR era.

First tension between US and Kyrgyzstan occured in 2005 during the presidential election there. US was not content with the outcome, and attempted to stage a "color revolution" there to remove the ruling regime much like it had in Georgia and Ukraine earlier. At first it looked like the coup succeeded, but it back fired on the US as the new leader of the country saw America as an increasing threat to his power and the country's stability.

After that Kyrgyzstan wanted to throw the US out for years, but the US had contracts guaranteeing access to the bases in the country until 2009. Almost everyone expected these contracts not to be renewed. Maybe if the US didn't try to stage coups for their new friends, it would have been otherwise.



The US created these problems itself, because it has a short-term rather than a long-term strategy. Now all the "stan" countries are gradually shifting towards better relations with Russia rather than the US. Without their help, US would have serious logistical problems in Afghanistan. It might even render the conflict a lost cause.

Now the US desperately needs help. Pakistan is out of the picture. Now Obama can choose either to cooperate with Russia, or fight an unwinnable war. Obviously Russia planned all of this out in advance too, and anticipated close of the Kyrgyz base.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by whiteraven
As you can imagine Putin, whose whole persona oozes Russian Nationalism, is salivating at the chance to defeat the US in Afghanistan as this would help toward further destabilization of the unique position held by the United States of America as not only the leader of the free world but the leader of the whole world.


I don't agree that Russia is interest in Afghanistan falling back into chaos and extremist anarchy under Taliban. Chaos and instability in Afghanistan spils over to countries like Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan, and then on to Russia. The main reason why Soviet Union got involved there in the 80's, is because it did not want there to be an unstable void in the middle of Asia.




Originally posted by whiteraven
The former Soviet Union understood this, thinking Afghanistan a worthy prize, marched over the country only to discover a Pandora's Box.


Well before the change in leadership that eventually brought Hafizullah Amin to power, Afghanistan was already well within the Soviet sphere of influence and was friendly towards the Soviet Union. The Soviets didn't so much see Afghanistan as a prize, as they wanted to keep it in its sphere of influence.



Originally posted by whiteraven
Imagine the glee of Putin if he could create another Viet Nam defeat for America.


If Russia wanted US to lose the war in Afghanistan, it would have started helping the Taliban back in 2002. Clearly this is not Russia's main agenda then.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 12:45 PM
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Yes..I see I am in need of perspective when it comes to Afghanistan and the former USSR.

This is why I painted Afghanistan as a pawn.

The Queen is the nations "archtype".

I prefaced the rant with neither the "US or Russia wants this".....

And if the rant is understood in this context then I more or less agree with you.

The prize is multi geographical and Obama knows where the end game is being played.....in our own backyard.

Also....the idea is to destabalize the new "image" of America under Obama not Afganistan.......the image of America was forever changed in Viet Nam after Saigon....The Russian bear will want to maul the image of the USA under President Obama.....change the kinder more gentle image given by America at this point in time.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 10:54 AM
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Kyrgyzstan Says U.S. Will No Longer Have Access to Critical Air Base





After announcing $2 billion in loans from Russia, the president of Kyrgyzstan announced the United States will no longer have access to the Manas air base, the lone base U.S. commanders have permission to use in Central Asia and a key supply line for U.S. troops in Afghanistan.

"More than once we have discussed with our American partners the subject of the economic compensation to Kyrgyzstan for the presence [of the U.S. base], but unfortunately, we did not find an understanding from the United States," Kyrgyzstan President Kurmanbek Bakiyev said Tuesday. "For over three years, we have been talking of the need to review the terms of the agreement, which do not satisfy us completely, yet we have not seen an understanding from the United States."

Less than 24 hours later, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said he and his ex-Soviet allies want to cooperate with Washington in Afghanistan in return for no expansion among NATO membership and a U.S. reversal on a missile defense shield for Europe that Russia opposes.




www.foxnews.com...

horse trade?

What does the US get in return besides no Star War stuff in Ruski back yard?

We gave up an air base, pretty important, looks like we may stall the missle shield.......is the Ford plant operational in Russia?




Ford plant in northwest Russia to produce Ford Mondeo cars





ST. PETERSBURG, February 5 (RIA Novosti) - A Ford factory near Russia's second city of St. Petersburg intends to stick to its plans for capacity expansion and will start rolling out Ford Mondeo cars in March, a top city official said Thursday.

"The Ford Company confirmed its intentions to introduce additional production capacities and produce Mondeo cars in March," Grigory Dvas, St. Petersburg deputy governor, said.

The Ford plant in Vsevolozhsk, near St. Petersburg, was opened in the summer of 2002 and employs some 2,200 workers.

On January 21, the plant restarted its assembly lines, which were shut down on December 24. In line with Russia's Labor Code, the company paid its workers two-thirds of their salaries during the extended holidays.


en.rian.ru...

second source



Summary: Ford has reportedly told the local authority in St Petersburg that it is going ahead with plans to increase production capacity at its St Pete plant in 2009.


www.just-auto.com...


MMhhh?

How would one classify Russia? Communist??? Nationalistic?!?! Capitlaist??!!

Facist?

This was the Russian Patriot Act.




In July 2004 President Putin signed Presidential Decree of 28 July 2004 (with later corrections) "On the structure of the federal executive bodies" when some ministries were split and some ministerial offices turned into agencies, some new services were established as government bodies. Resulting in 17 Ministries, 7 Federal Services and over 30 Federal Agencies.

Last change was held on May 12, 2008 when President Medvedev signed Presidential decree #724


en.wikipedia.org...

So would this tend toward democracy or facism?

The illusion of democracy under KGB control?



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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maloy




Originally posted by whiteraven
Imagine the glee of Putin if he could create another Viet Nam defeat for America.



If Russia wanted US to lose the war in Afghanistan, it would have started helping the Taliban back in 2002. Clearly this is not Russia's main agenda then.




This guy seems to agree with the scenario!?



February 4th, 2009
America’s long, long Afghan war
Post a comment (15)By: Bernd Debusmann
Tags: General, afghan war, Afghanistan, Barack Obama, central intelligence agency, david petraeus, robert gates, soviet fighters, soviets, war in iraq
–Bernd Debusmann is a Reuters columnist. The opinions expressed are his own–

Twenty years ago this month, the last Soviet soldier left Afghanistan after a disastrous war that lasted nine years, seven weeks and three days. Barring military and political miracles, the United States will stay longer in Afghanistan than the Soviets did. Considerably longer.

Present U.S. plans to reinforce troops fighting a war that is, by most accounts, going badly, provide for up to 30,000 additional soldiers to be deployed over the next 12 to 18 months. By that time, the U.S. presence will almost have matched the Soviets’ stay and will exceed it by the end of 2010.

And if U.S. history is any guide, politicians running for the 2012 presidential election will describe the Afghan war as Barack Obama’s war because he switched emphasis and carried out a campaign pledge to draw down troops in Iraq and bolster U.S. forces in Afghanistan, now 36,000 strong.

Obama critics will complain about the Afghan war’s cost — probably around $70 billion a year — and demand an accounting on what it has achieved and when it will end. So far, nobody is venturing forecasts beyond “it will be long.”

General David Petraeus, the man credited with turning the tide of the war in Iraq, has spoken of Afghanistan as “the longest campaign of the long war.” Defense Secretary Robert Gates predicts “a long and difficult fight.”

By an ironic twist of history, Gates was instrumental in getting Soviet troops out of Afghanistan when he was deputy director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the U.S. supplied anti-Soviet fighters with cash, weapons and intelligence.

Now Gates is involved in getting more American troops into Afghanistan and it is not difficult to imagine that eventually the United States will face the same agonizing decisions the Soviets faced in the end. Gates, the only Bush White House cabinet secretary retained by Obama, wrote about exit problems from a war gone wrong for the Soviets in his 1996 memoir, From the Shadows.

He said that by 1987, the CIA had concluded the Soviets wanted out. “But tough decisions were still in front of them - how to get out, when and without losing face … I was truly convinced that the Soviets would have difficulty arranging a face-saving way out.”


blogs.reuters.com...


Same players different chess game.



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