Originally posted by wintermarches
You're welcome, and that's understandable. However, sometimes I get irritated by the tone of demands for proofs from debunkers/skeptics, regarding
things that are nowhere near implausible considering the political climate and the history of such matters.
I understand, but likewise, us skeptics get tired of OPs that start off extrapolating, and end with doomsday warnings and any number of seemingly
definitive statements. I generally try to sift between those who admit they are merely stating an opinion or "just an idea", and those that
literally treat their extrapolations as some kind of call to arms.
I have to ask myself when people demand proof, whether they sincerely need convincing or whether they are just trying to discredit and cause
interference in a productive conversation. Besides, this is a thread, not a debate.
Again, I understand. But I'll be honest with you: the majority of threads like these tend to have some kind of ripple effect--as you can see here,
you've got people polishing guns and amping up the paranoia. I don't see that as productive, honestly. Granted, I know not all are serious, but
it's sometimes astounding to me how easily people react off these things without asking the same types of questions I asked first.
I do think you're naive if you assume video cameras are not nefarious. That's your prerogative to think the government is all warm fuzzies
and isn't in the business of controlling people. We could argue about that one all day. I also think your thinking is a bit narrow or concrete in
that you want specific proof for everything OP discussed possibly happening.
Let's not jump to a hasty generalization here; just because I'm not too worried about cameras doesn't mean I think the government is an
omnibenevolent enterprise. Some of the crap that happened under Bush is downright scary.
If I could sum it up quickly, my take on it would be this: a lot of threads on ATS regarding such matters tend to think our lives and our private
affairs are even important enough for the government to care about. To me, it's a kind of arrogant self-assertion that we matter
. Of course we
matter, but really, are we that special that the FBI is tuning into our gossip about the next door neighbor?
That's the biggest reason why I'm not concerned. I have no reason to be. My life is like any other mundane American life. I hate the principle
behind being spied on, but my life is so categorically uninteresting for any secret agent that I'd get a chuckle out of how bored they must be.
In any case, extrapolation is a method of coming to conclusions based on trends in existing data. No "assuming" about it. Assume implies that there
is no proof. Maybe posters here are extrapolating, and not from assumptions but from previous data about the surveillance behavior of government and a
host of other data about government modus operandi.
I think you're playing definitions to a degree here, because coming to a conclusion from known trends is still not proving something, is it? You may
have evidence, but whether that evidence is proof is another matter. Anyway, I concede that my word choice was poor.
So, in the same vein, why would they want to know what we say and do in the privacy of our home? Same reasons. It will fall under the "war on
terrorism". The more info they can get, the better, as far as they are concerned. It's all there in the Patriot Act and companion laws.
The Patriot Act is a wretched by-product from Bush, and I can only hope that Obama repeals it. I'm assuming we can both agree on that. And I agree
that the Patriot Act is an alarming erosion of our civil liberties.
But I still must maintain: even under the Patriot Act, they weren't hitting up random people for the fun of it. There were still reasons to
investigate certain people. And as far as I can tell, there's pretty much nothing about me (unless ATS counts) that would arouse their suspicions.
That doesn't make it any less scary, but it doesn't mean I'm really that worried about it. Like I said, the worst that may happen is that they hear
me talking dirty to a girlfriend. None of their business, but not the end of the world.
Do you know about Fusion Centers? Look that one up. The government continues to look for ways to make information as efficient and connected as they
can. Fusion Centers is one example. And why should the government watch me pick my nose or pull out a wedgie, as you say? No, I don't want strangers
peeking in my house while I do that or anything else.
I will look them up. Hey, I don't want them to be either. But then, I don't think they will be. Even with whatever may be going on, none of it is
reason for me to be that alarmed.