President Obama to water down 'Buy American' plan after EU trade war threat

reply to post by Gun Totin Gerbil


Well we have just as much control over our governments spending as you do, which isn't much, and when ours tries to keep some of it on our home front europe gets their panties in a wad. You try to justify your greed by shoving an unpopular set of wars in our face like it's the little people's fault. I'm not sure that what we are discussing even goes against any of our trade agreements it's not like we are imposing tarriffs. I would prefer my tax dollars stay in the US, but you want to usurp my say so, until it comes to a war you don't like then you want me to stand up and stop my leaders? You need to go look in a mirror comrade.

They should have done it quietly . Just bought American without documenting it.

reply to post by stumason

Why the whinging, anyway? It was the USA's policies after WW2 that set up this whole globalised mess in the first place. Reap what you sow....

Spot On!


For 65-70yrs the whole world has tangled itself up in a major ball of credit and greed, originating from the western victors of WW2.

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by Ahabstar

 

Indeed, when you take each nation individually. But look at the top ten of both imports and exports. Three EU members in there. When you tally up total EU trade, you'll find I am quite right. Seeing as we're talking about the EU and US as two entities, then it is only right to compare trade on the same level, not on each individual member state.

Germany $84.8B, UK $51B and France $33.8 = $169.6B
Canada $290.4B

Somehow I have doubts that the Czech Republic (or whichever name they go under now makes up the difference)

--I do hope you see the sarcasm there a a gentle ribbing as opposed to normal American arrogance.

The reality of the situation is that post WWII is the cause of much of the problems today. America was the only industrial nation with manufacturing still intact. By having control of the industry and control of the currency by pegging the US dollar to $35/oz., the US became a superpower by default.

By removal of the dollar to the gold standard and mass outsourcing of industry to cheap labor sources in the 70's onwards, the US removed its leverage with the exception of its military might. The fact that the US has not committed forces to total warfare since WWII has given doubt as to the military might in its possession.

Should the continued failure to help the very people that need it most by our elected leaders, the world and our own government will more than likely find out just how much fight is left in the people of this country. Some will say that I am sensationalizing and fear mongering here; but I honestly can not see the majority of these "me first" people patiently lining up for a breadline or soup kitchen when the welfare checks stop.

Originally posted by marg6043
Incredible to see how America has lost its Sovereignty to the greed global elite.

Where are the American patriots, the fighters of this nation and the supporters of Americas constitution.

What we have in our nations government is nothing more than a whole bunch of traitors.

I think that President Obama is making the same mistake that those before him made.

You can't cure a disease that is festering deep within the roots of a tree by cutting off the branches.

We have to take care of home first and the people inside of the homes in America before we do anything else.

If you have no Americans then you have no America.
If you have no America we have nothing to fight for and we are no long vested.

The land that was America will be nothing but spoils divvied up by the victors and we will either be chattel or insurgents.

Originally posted by racegunz
reply to post by Gun Totin Gerbil

 

Well we have just as much control over our governments spending as you do, which isn't much, and when ours tries to keep some of it on our home front europe gets their panties in a wad. You try to justify your greed by shoving an unpopular set of wars in our face like it's the little people's fault. I'm not sure that what we are discussing even goes against any of our trade agreements it's not like we are imposing tarriffs. I would prefer my tax dollars stay in the US, but you want to usurp my say so, until it comes to a war you don't like then you want me to stand up and stop my leaders? You need to go look in a mirror comrade.

What does the war being popular or not have to do with anything , or your ability to stand up and stop it or not . You introduce irrelevance . It is nothing to do with 'my greed' and shoving an 'unpopular war ' in your face . These are all points of waffle . Three words you need to concentrate on , forget the irrelevance you are partial too . ' Allocation of Resources' .


[edit on 3-2-2009 by Gun Totin Gerbil]

Originally posted by racegunz
I didn;t mean your products but rather your socialist tendencies in gov't and lack of private enterprise and property, not just England over there mate.

What is this whole myth about "socialist" Europe? There is plenty of private enterprise and property ownership. The collapse of the real estate market has hurt us as bad as it's hurt you guys.

It seems from this comment and others I have seen that many in the US see Europe as some sort of Communist Pact, where everyone gets a free house courtesy of the "Party", a job for life in some state owned factory and free Healthcare provided by a legion of Comrade Doctors.

Originally posted by Ahabstar

Germany $84.8B, UK $51B and France $33.8 = $169.6B
Canada $290.4B

Somehow I have doubts that the Czech Republic (or whichever name they go under now makes up the difference)

So three EU countries make up 59% of the same trade of Canada. Czech Republic aside (you got the name right ), there are another 23 Nations in the EU.

Trade in goods

EU good exports to the US in 2007: €260 billion
EU goods imports from the US in 2007: €180 billion

Trade in services

EU services exports to the US 2007: €139.0 billion
EU services exports from the US in 2007: €127.9 billion

Foreign Direct Investment

EU investment flows to the US in 2007: €112.6 billion
US investment flows to the EU in 2007: €144.5 billion

Link

I know the figures are 2 years old, but we're talking somewhere in the region of $330 Billion USD worth of goods exports alone from the EU to the USA. A further £179 Billion in services, totalling somewhere in the region of $509 Billion USD worth of exports from the EU to the USA.

--I do hope you see the sarcasm there a a gentle ribbing as opposed to normal American arrogance.

Ha, indeed Don't worry

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn

If you have no Americans then you have no America.

You sir have hit the nail on the head, look around, we're already there, we've been sold out , and not just us so have the countries that seem to hate us so much. We've been sold out by the same people and we are now turning against each other because we do not know who else to turn on. It's must be quite the spectacle to behold from their ivory towers!

reply to post by stumason

It seems from this comment and others I have seen that many in the US see Europe as some sort of Communist Pact, where everyone gets a free house courtesy of the "Party", a job for life in some state owned factory and free Healthcare provided by a legion of Comrade Doctors

Well I never said all those things but the medical care thing is pretty close.
Your comments about us seems just as biased to me. Are you so self absorbed that you believe that the American people should only stand up to their gov't if it suits you? We the people sure as hell didn't sign those trade agreements and we now want to use our own money as we see fit, you have a problem with that and it's our fault? Truly our ancestors were right when they fled europe.

Originally posted by racegunz
Well I never said all those things but the medical care thing is pretty close.

Really? Well, it's one fudged up Communist system when doctors earn £100,000 a year and don't even have to be on call! It's nowhere even close.

Originally posted by racegunz
Your comments about us seems just as biased to me. Are you so self absorbed that you believe that the American people should only stand up to their gov't if it suits you?

Biased? Not at all. The USA expects the rest of the world to abide by Treaties they too have signed, but when the World asks you to do the same all of a sudden we're being unreasonable?

Imagine the boot being on the other foot and the EU had 800 Billion euro package which precluded any spending on US products or services? Imagine the up roar... In fact, give me enough time and I will find you perfect examples of such a thing. The Airbus/Boeing saga is one good one....

Originally posted by racegunz
We the people sure as hell didn't sign those trade agreements and we now want to use our own money as we see fit, you have a problem with that and it's our fault? Truly our ancestors were right when they fled europe.

Truly our ancestors where right when they kicked you lot out!

Bottom line is you have personally benefitted from those very same trade agreements for years, if not decades. As have millions upon millions of other Americans. Now they suddenly don't suit you, you're going to pull up the draw bridge and stick your middle fingers up at the rest of the world, thinking you'll be nice and safe in your little protectionist castle?

Doesn't work like that mate.

But crack on, if you want to. Just don't start bitching and whining when the EU slams down on US trade, which will cause layoffs in US companies that would dwarf any that resulted from "being part of the team", as it where. And it won't just be the EU either, we're just the ones with big enough balls to make a noise about it...

reply to post by stumason

Bottom line is you have personally benefitted from those very same trade agreements

Wrong, you assume much about me, well we could go on I suppose but we aren;t really getting anywhere, are we? I totally support your people
standing up and negating a trade agreement they had no say so in. But that's how we are different, besides Che Chevera says it;s all about allocation of which i get and give none so I don;t have any say so. Cheers Mate.

reply to post by racegunz


So you honestly expect me to believe that, somehow, you've managed to avoid benefitting whatsoever by the USA being flooded with cheap goods produced from overseas? It wasn't so much of an assumption, as a matter of fact. Every single American citizen has benefitted from the Trade agreements signed in one way or another.

Unless, of course, you have somehow managed to post in this forum using a computer made entirely in the US, using electricity provided solely from US energy sources over power lines made entirely out of US produced metal? It also stands to reason that because you haven't benefitted from these agreements, that you don't have a fridge, or a microwave oven, or a TV? It must also be the case that every soft drink can you've ever handled is made out of US only Aluminium? I could go on, but I think I have made my point.

Maybe I am missing it and somebody already posted it.

The House already passed it and the Senate should pass it this week. Then Obama has the option of signing it or not.


What Power does Obama have to remove anything from a piece of legislation?

He can't. The only way he could stop this clause is to veto the entire bill.

And after begging for this bill to be passed ASAP so he can sign, I would be surprised and amazed if he killed the very same legislation he has been calling for. It would probably a Presidential first.

This is getting very interesting. Obama may have to kill his own stimulus plan in order to get the world to view us in a better way. NOT even Hollywood could have written a script like this one.

Originally posted by badgerprints
The problem is that Obama was presented in the media as a world uniter and savior. Now the rest of the world is expecting him to be their new hope as well as the people who voted for him.

You know what?

The first thing he has to do is get the US back on it's feet economically!

Our country can't do this at this point in time by sending all our wealth to other countries!

Our country NEEDS to turn "internally", so to speak, and to pay our own people/citizens for products THEY make, and build our own wealth/economy back up right now in our own country, before we can really afford buying products from other countries and sending what's left of our "wealth" oversees!

Come ON!!!!

This is a NO BRAINER!!!!

Econ 101:

Bob owns an island with 10 orange trees.

Jeff owns an island with 10 apple trees.

Bob lives on oranges, and Jeff lives on apples.

Variety being valued by humans, Bob would be happier with fewer oranges and more apples. Jeff would be happier with fewer apples and more oranges.

Here's the key, kids. When they trade, they are both wealthier than they would have been otherwise.

Strategic considerations aside, harming trade, particularly among friends, only hurts us all.

Quite frankly this is how I see it as an Aussie in Australia:

Bush and his Wall Street cohorts put the world into this mess in the first place. American greed did this. It is your job to now help the world get out of it. I do not care whether you like what I say or not, it is simple fact.

If you don't like it, you shouldn't have begun trading with other nations in the first place. It's called the 'global economy' for a reason. I find it quite amazing that America can go around the world sticking your noses in where you are not wanted, dictating terms to countries that don't have the bargaining power to say no then all of a sudden when the world actually needs America to do something to help out you all want to close ranks and screw the rest of the world.

Unfrigginbelievable.

I couldn't give a rodent's rectum if you flame me, it would just be proving my point.

Agreed the EU needs to mind its own economy and business, and not be affiliated wtih OUR affiars....bunch of brown nosers. I am all for buying american made, and will continue to do so..if I decide to spend money on american goods and products, thats my descision, not the EU's...

Wow, guess we found out obama has no back bone. Here's his chance to show America that he's truely looking out for our best intrest, an what's he do? Cowers when the EU says no, they want a piece of our pie too. Way to go BO, way to stand up for the American Industry.

You do realise that some smaller countries economies are intricately intertwined with America's and cannot support themselves without it? You do realise that if America closes ranks and only buys American made that these countries will slip into depression and worse?

I am glad you all think YOU'LL be OK if this happens. I'm so happy for you all sitting in your homes eating your American meals, purchasing your American made goods watching the rest of the world spiral out of control because of your closed trade borders. I'm glad you think this is OK.

Then again, what more should the rest of the world expect? I mean you only caused this to happen by Wall Street greed, you only poke your noses into other countries business, even when told you're not wanted, you think you have the god given right to police the world and do what you want.......why should we expect anything different from America now?

And you wonder why the rest of the world is slowly coming to hate America (if they don't already)? You guys really are determined to become Public Enemy Number 1 aren't you? The sickening thing is, if that ever happened and China and the EU decided to pull out of American trade by themselves......leaving you lot screwed by the way......that you'll be whinging and complaining that you've been treated unfairly.

Sickening really.

reply to post by ziggy1706


The EU economy and the US economy are heavily relaint on each other. To think the US could survive on it's own is madness, it never has. You have always been reliant on foreign trade, as has every other workable economy in history. The only reason you guys got rich in the first place is due to massive trade generated by the World Wars, without which the US would never have gained it's place as the number one economy in the world (It has since slipped into second place).

Bottom line is, if the US decides to close ranks and go the protectionist route, so will others in response. It would hurt the US far more than anyone else.

What "american products" are you buying, exactly? Computers? Cars? Kitchen goods? All of which are, at least in part, produced with overseas produce, if not entirely manufactured in foreign lands. About the only thing that the US can claim with any certainty that it is self-sufficient on is food and even then, I bet there is substantial foreign trade anyway.