EU attacks 'Buy American' clause

reply to post by Frankidealist35


I'd love to see a "fair" trade agreement and I think all this hot air spouted about this Bill going through Congress is just about having a fair playing field. I can understand the US desire to boost US industry, but to be honest, you rely on foreign industry just as much and vice versa. It would make sense for all the big ecnomies to sit down and work a huge, global response to this recession, rather than each acting individually and disjointed.

reply to post by marg6043


Marg, all sales in the EU are subject to VAT, not just American trade. How can it be unfair? You also have Sales Tax in the US, do you not? That's all VAT is.

post by marg6043
The French have a very long history of protecting companies it dubs “national champions” from takeovers by foreign competitors as well as providing extensive subsidies to farmers.

The French have always been about "France first", even at the expense of their EU partners. It makes the headlines every time the EU budget is up for approval as they get some $40 Billion Euro's for their farmers to do naff all, whereas the UK gets bugger all and has French and Spanish trawlers in our waters taking our fish! Don't get me started.....

post by marg6043
The British have been nationalizing their banking industry and forcing multinational banks to lend less internationally to focus on British businesses and citizens.

The US and many other countries have done the same. It's not quite protectionism, it's just ensuring that the countries financial houses don't go under and screw up the whole thing. HSBC and Barclays are still independent and account for a massive chunk of UK banking anyway.

post by marg6043
France, Britain and Sweden have long histories of subsidizing their respective domestic auto making industries.

Really? Like when we stepped in to save Rover and not allow them to be bought by a Chinese firm? Or when we saved Land Rover and Jaguar from closing factories and being bought by foreign firms?

We are about the only country in the EU that actually believes in market economics, the others will happily step in and help national industries, even when EU laws actually prevent it.

That is what is odd about the UK. We hate being told what to do by Brussels, but we appear to be the only ones following the rules.

Typical Brits, always sticking to the rules otherwise it just 'aint cricket....

As for the Asian countries, I assume the US could if it wanted take them to the WTO for unfiar practices. How come it hasn't? I assume because there was an American benefit, such as the undervalued Chinese currency allowing super cheap imports to continue?

reply to post by stumason


Is a joy debating with you, now more than ever, but the final issue is about the decimation of Americas economy.

No matter what, if America fails on stimulating the economy while been force to prop the WTO nations, Americas economy will collapse, my friend and with it so the entire nations that depend on Americas consumerism.

Can you debate that?

Still I see Americas collapsing anyway, as the economical stimulus have its flaws.

reply to post by marg6043


As do I enjoy debating you! It's not often we find ourselves opposing one another, mind you! I do understand your position and I'd feel the same, but we need a co-ordinated response to this mess as it is truly global in nature.

To be honest though, Marg, I think everyone is buggered either which way! They previaling theory behind these "stimulus" packages is to fix a credit problem by creating more debt, which to me seems a very silly thing to do.

That $800 Billion you guys are pumping in is created out of thin air, causing inflation etc, the same with our own "rescue packages". At the end of the day, the whole global system needs to be redesigned from the ground up, with some seriously fundamental changes needed. Don't ask me what though, I'm an Engineer, not a Banker!

Originally posted by stumason

At the end of the day, the whole global system needs to be redesigned from the ground up, with some seriously fundamental changes needed. Don't ask me what though, I'm an Engineer, not a Banker!

Amen. And the fact that you are not a banker I am certain is what is contributing to the good sense of what you have just said. You guys did present good arguments and it was very enjoyable to read. You both made very good points.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


I must say the content of your post does an exceptional job living up to the title of your user name.

Sovereignty, independence, nationalism: they're all irrelevant in a globally competitive world. It is clear that many people will suffer as a result of national economic policy in the U.S.

I was really surprised to find out, after reading the OP's comment, that he didn't understand the implications of this clause. I would have almost sworn that the general consensus was exactly the opposite to the apparent bias of this post.

The U.S. should purchase the cheapest steel on the market, whether it comes from Europe or America. Employing Americans in the short run isn't going to solve anything. Purchasing steel internationally will increase the efficiency of infrastructure development, relieve the burden on international labor markets, and diminish the impassioned political dispositions they engender. But Obama wants to put Americans to work immediately. This ruthless, irresponsible national economic policy will lengthen the recession. This plan means that Americans will be temporarily stealing potential wealth from the rest of the world. The hope is that in a very short amount of time, American spending will have increased and thereby rehabilitated the global market before anyone actually notices the duly created economic disparity. If this plan doesn't work exactly as Obama expects it to then he will have unjustifiably risked the world's economy and squandered resources at the expense of the international community.

The plan so far is to create jobs in America at the expense of the world, thereby increasing citizens' ability to consume, in an attempt to rehabilitate the world economy as quickly as possible. Obama's short term game is very risky.

[edit on 4-2-2009 by cognoscente]

The only positive I can see from this:

Obama is intelligent and flexible enough to alter clauses in the face of pressure.







[edit on 4-2-2009 by HiAliens]

reply to post by stumason


Exactly and also that stimulus is base upon the willingness of our lenders to supply buy more of our debt.

That is something that America can not get away from unless it let our economy collapse and start from the ashes.

indeed we are in such a mess is not funny.


[edit on 4-2-2009 by marg6043]

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by stumason

 

Really?

You're dependent on us?

I forget that sometimes when I see these anti-US European posters...

Frankie, do you know anything about the global market?

If an economy the size of the US, EU or China goes into a protectionist stance, the other two will will have serious economic problems so no need to try and make out (yet again) that the world revolves around the US. If the US went bust, we would have some hardship for a while but pull through in a few years. The same would be true for you if the EU went bust etc.

Also, If the EU decided not to sell US products.. that would be a pretty serious blow to the US economy because the US is dependent somewhat on exporting to the EU.. and visa versa.

If the EU decided not to allow ANY US exports to be sold in any of its member states.. how do you think that would hit the US? Im pretty sure some of your leaders would be thinking of complaining to someone.


Side note:

Almost every post you have written in this thread is a three line dig at ""Europeans"" - im not sure what you classify Europeans as. A billion people of 50 main ethnic groups speaking 50 languages?? How can you generalize or stereotype that?

You make out that ""we"" are self centered, arrogant, warmongering, US bashers when in reality, if you read back through almost all the threads you have written, you can see that the above is a mirror image of yourself... except replace US bashing with EU bashing and rumor spreading.


Whats the point in these ""attacks"" when pretty much everyone else is trying to have an intelligent discussion ?

havent you guys heard of free trade? Your governement signed deals that they have to follow. In these times, protectionism is the worst thing that could happen to your country.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by Emipie

 

Okay, then why doesn't Europe keep their end of the bargain and give us free trade?

We can't keep giving goods overseas and sending jobs with nothing in return.

We got imports from China but look where that got us- we found out they weren't safe and we recalled them.

Europe needs to give us something in return.

And to Pjotr- you can't keep blaming the US for all of your problems. It's not a fault of the system. It's a fault of the people who ran our governments-- yours too for not seeing this and not taking steps to prevent it.

[edit on 3-2-2009 by Frankidealist35]

Hi,
Free trade is in the making. They strated with the One Market deal with the US, as far as I understand.

And I don't blame the US as a whole, but I forget people tend to identify with it. I identify with the EU too. Off course it is the moneymakers fault, For all I know it could be a powergame between the Rockefellers and the Rothschildt's, but the point is that it has been going on for a while now and everybody in the US seemed think it is normal to be in debt all the time. I have never been in debt in my life. And I only recently started to make some real money. So it is also a attitude towards being in debt, as in who owns you and your house etc and your kids.

[edit on 4-2-2009 by Pjotr]

reply to post by detachedindividual


Amen!

Going back to the original reason for the WTO to be so upset about the "buy America only clause"

This the truth,

The buy American only clause is more for the American steel companies that are the only staple of the American industry that is left

NO, Obama will stay with the buy only steel clause but for the rest of the stimulus, the money to boost the consumer spending will be spend on foreign goods boosting the WTO nations economies as Americas beside steel and cars doesn't really have anything else left.

So America need to save its steel industry and that is something that the WTO will not be able to stop.

reply to post by marg6043


And I will go one step further and say I think that all nations should tell the WTO to stuff it. They have never had the interests of nations, or the people of nations at heart. It has always been about making the rich richer, and I personally think they should pack their bags and go back to their own country.

Oh wait, they dont have a country. They think the whole world is their country.

Well we will just assign them a nice little chunk of the Arctic ice where all the little lines of country ownership converge and they can pretend they own the whole world.

Until the non-existent global warming melts their little ice island.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


You made my day today , I think that are many, many Americans that will be very upset if the American steel companies get the finger because the WTO doesn't agree with the bail out clause.

I give America a few more months for the nation to collapse if we allow the WTO to dictate Americans fate at the expenses of the tax payer in the nation.

With the tax season approaching more and more Americans will become very angry at the way America has turned into the hands of the traitors we have in government.

Obama has only been there for a short time, but most of the fat rats seating in congress has been there for a long time and while getting drunk and having lap dances paid by the same lobbyist and interest that pushed the policies that now are killing this nation they sold our sovereignty for booze and hookers.

[edit on 4-2-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by Europe


As far as I'm concerned, it's the final countdown...

Read the news it's not an isolationist move!

Oh this is ridiculous and I noticed more non Americans are complaining this is a stimulus package to get our country’s economy going not to get the whole world going it is meant to jump start ours not yours if you need help ask your own governments.

I see nothing wrong with the buy American only. This is only for the stimulus and the jobs and supplies that will be needed for the recovery of our economy the people are free to buy what they want from whom they want but for the large projects they should buy American.
What good is it going to do our economy if we outsourced everything while rebuilding our infrastructure?

Well?

Nothing! That’s right.

This is not isolationism it is simply an economic package designed to help jump start our economy.

People are trying to make this out as if he is making it a law to buy only American.

I'll buy my concrete and steal from an American Company and I'll use my new American tools during the works projects and when I get paid I'll wake up and drink my coffee from Columbia and shave with my Braun electric razor buy a Sony TV and Samsung blue-ray player and drive to work in my new BMW get it?

reply to post by Frankidealist35


It's all about the WTO, IMF and World Bank controlling us.

Like the Galactic Empire.

Originally posted by Choronzon


Originally, I did not believe that the European Union had the power to set US policies. But now it appears that not only do they have ultimate control over Europe but it seems like they do in fact have the ability to tell the United States how to run their own country. This maybe the first fore-shadowing of whats to come from the NWO illuminati.

news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

What goes around comes around, it is a sign for the things to come. America was telling the world how to run their country, now they should accept the same.

reply to post by SLAYER69


The argument isn't against Americans doing what they want, obviously they will seeing as its the "only country in the world that has freedoms".

The argument is that, the US government cannot go against the WTO agreement just because they screwed themselves in the ass with their military expenditure.

The whole outsourcing thing is a bitch, its after ruining more empires over the past few centuries than you can shake a stick at. Its capitalist evolution of the markets but it is cyclical.

reply to post by Dermo


Sorry guys but I think we should all go into our own corners and lick our wounds.

If the plan is to build infrastructure here, then it should be with American goods and resources - ITS our money, literally. We did the work - our greasy entity collected it.

This does not mean however that we will stop buying

Ale and Tipperary from IRELAND -
Nikes from Korea
TVs from China
Oil from Canada
$#@$ FENDER stratocasters from MEXICO
Hookers from Russia
or
Heroin from Afghanistan........

We will still download the latest RADIOHEAD
- BUY HARRY POTTER books
Have call centers in INDIA (that will send us to early grave due to hypertension)

I am talking about asphalt - steel - paint - vehicles - tools ...

You guys do not want us to throw a revolution - we would likely kill each other off, not before nuking the world.

Best thing is to keep reminding AMERICANS the lessons of BUSH - over and over..
Trickle down did not work for REAGAN - BUSH - or the second coming mentioned above.

F the WTO and NAFTA and Wall mart and the likes - blessed be the citizens everywhere who are suffering on behalf of our uneducated - who voted JR STUPID and DICK in twice.

Its very popular here to vote for your toe despite the danger to your face.