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EU attacks 'Buy American' clause

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posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:20 PM
reply to post by Frankidealist35

But you see in doing so, you also impose more problems on the EU itself for not being able to bid on such large contracts for materials and such. They are loosing out at the cost of America rebuilding it's economy.

Now if the US really wants to pursue this kind of action, they might face strong criticism and maybe even sanctions from the WTO for not following the original agreement.

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by detachedindividual

But right now we need to focus on our economy. We can't have an economy where we ship everything out of our own and nothing is left for us.

This is reverse logic ?

The point is that the US now wants only US-goods to be used, not because otherwise they are exported, but to prevent foreign goods being imported instead, because those are cheaper !

If US starts to protect in this way it's market, other countries will follow in their example.
For industry making goods being sold within the US this is great news. But what about products that depend on export ? They will no longer find a market open to them ?
If we all try to favor export and do not tolerate import, then global economy will halt completely.
I mean, no one can export if others do not allow import, and what country is able to fully support itself ?

And i would be really surprised if the WTO excists only because of Europe, or only for the good of Europe ??

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:22 PM
reply to post by Frankidealist35

They only rely on us as much so far as they can use us for all we're worth.

Why are you condemning the same thing we do? Hell we use, abuse, and throw them away just like any other country.

Just think of the countries we have used to get what we want only to abandon them later.

If this contradicts any trade pacts we have made, then we should honor the trade pacts.

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:23 PM
reply to post by tothetenthpower

Okay, then how about Europe renegotiates the fair trade policy we have so we get more in return too?

Does Europe think they're the center of the world or something?

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:23 PM
reply to post by jam321

That's my point. If we wake up to the realities of what we're doing like we are right now then we should be given a break just like Europe was for doing the same things we were.

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:24 PM
Is another thread with good informaion on this same issue.'

For anybody that wants to understand what America is facing

Learn the Truth About Disastrous "Free Trade" Agreements: WTO | Value Added Tax | NAFTA | North American Union.

The WTO is a biased undemocratic international organization of 140 nations that limits America's ability to act in its best interest. In it America has not larger vote than Granada, By singning the World Trade Organization agreement, the Congress agreed to concde a majort part of the U.S. sovereignity and usurp its democratic legislative processes, including:

Coform U.S. laws, regulations and administrative procedures to the WTO agreetment.

Subject all U.S. federal, state, and local laws and practices that affect the trade to internatina review by WTO.

Allow any WTO member to challenge any U.S. law, federal, state, or local, as trade impeding barrier.

Take all trade disputes to the WTO judiciary.

Give the WTO final jurisdiction over all trade disputes.

Agree that the porceedings of WTO judical panels be secret, NO APPEALS EXISTS OUTSIDE OFTHE WTO.

Empower the WTO to enforce its ruling by imposing fines on the U.S> until we cmplay.

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:25 PM

Originally posted by detachedindividual

Destroy the entire process, become protectionist and nationalized, or rewrite the agreements in their entirety.
Level the playing field so that every nation can revise their agreements with America too. Lets see how sensible and obvious this looks then.

I am all for a complete abandonment of the plan. Not only for our country but for all of them.

I disagree with what you SEEM to be saying that a people are for perpetuity bound by the agreements of its leadership.

"We" have not benefited from these agreements. Americans have been losing real purchasing power since the 70's. What you see on American TV shows is fiction. We dont all drive around in Hummers. You should see the abject poverty in portions of America. We have places that look like the third world here. Dont tell "us" that "we" have been reaping tons of rewards from these agreements.

A certain portion of our population has, just like a certain portion of the population in every country has. And yes, they have been lying to us and promising all of us that it will make our lives better. But none of us are slaves. Even a slave has the right, (though it may cost them dearly) to decline to recognize a piece of paper showing that another owns them. And if enough wage slaves stand up and say "no more" the pieces of paper revert to just that. Pieces of paper.

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:27 PM

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by detachedindividual

I think you're being irrational here.

First, you're implying that the United States as a whole supported the globalization movement when that is obviously not the case.

These wall-street bureaucrats thought it would be a good idea to appease people in Europe or around the world by sending them things of ours and expecting nothing overseas. They represent the will of multinational corporations and not of the United States.

Therefore, you should be punishing these multinational corporations specifically and not the nation of a whole.

I haven't assumed anything. Your government, just like mine, represents the people.

I don't like many of the things that my government has done, and I protest when I have to. I don't agree that foreign workers should be working in our refineries doing jobs that British people can do.
But I understand that we signed that agreement and we have had enormous benefits financially from global trade.

The US government made this agreement, and now it want's to ignore that agreement once it finds it's not convenient. That is wrong.

Plain and simple.

I don't care who asked for it, I don't care who supports it and who has benefited.
I do care that one nation is arrogant enough to suddenly decide they've had it good for a while and now the tide has turned they can just ignore that it exists.

What gives the USA the right to be the sole nation suddenly ignoring the rules it has happily played by?

As for sending things over seas and getting nothing in return...
Look how many American corporations are now a standard sight in every other nation globally.
Don't try to tell me that America hasn't benefited massively from global trade agreements, they have and continue to do so through every American corporation.

I get that the common man doesn't appreciate this. I feel the same way. Which is again why I am entirely against globalization.

But that doesn't make it morally right to suddenly change the rules now that you're losing the game. And it is extremely arrogant to think that this is okay to do.

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:29 PM
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

"We" have not benefited from these agreements. Americans have been losing real purchasing power since the 70's.

I agree 100%. The sad part is that our government has known this for the longest and despite knowing have continued to make such agreements.

Where should the real blame lie?

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:31 PM
reply to post by detachedindividual

I do agree that we should comply with the treaty. But changes need to be made to make it more fair.

The reason why I say it's irrational is that Europe should be negotiating wiht us. Europe recognizes that we're in a time of crisis as you are. So Europe should renegotiate the treaty to have a clause as how the countries should act in a time of crises so this shouldn't be a problem.

That's how I see it.

[edit on 3-2-2009 by Frankidealist35]

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:31 PM
reply to post by Frankidealist35

what will you get in return?
You took and took and took and gave nothing back and now you want something in return.
You started as a country of suppliers and manufacturers and then became a country of consumers and now you want something back.

You dined on the table of the world and now you don't want to pay the bill and expect the resturaunt owners to keep feeding you.

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:33 PM
reply to post by jam321

Well the sad part of the whole deal is that most of the people that now grace the Obama administration is the same ones that agree with most of this agreements and even supported them.

They still do

Republican New Hampshire Senator Judd Gregg accepted President Obama's offer to be Commerce Secretary on Monday, according to two administration officials CNN Politics reported. His acceptance to the post will certainly be a major blow to the “fair trade” movement, as “free traders” dreams come true.

Gregg is himself a former businessman who has been honored by the radically unrelenting “free trade” advocacy group the, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. For the most recent congress, Gregg voted to lower trade barriers a little over nine out of 10 times.

I guess is not light at the end of the tunnel after all.

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:33 PM
reply to post by munkey66

Actually, we've been giving and giving.

We've given all our best jobs to India and we've lost our manufacturing cores.

So do you really think we've lost nothing and we've only gained from this?

Think again.

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:36 PM
reply to post by munkey66

Thanks from bringing the "ugly truth" many will find this hard to swallow because of pride.

But now we have a new president that took the step into going against the TWO and now we have countries screaming fowl play and telling America that they will retaliate against the Buy American clause.

Guess what this how America should take back what it has given away for so long.

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:38 PM
reply to post by Frankidealist35

You gave your best jobs to India?
Or did the big corperations decide it was much cheaper to go over seas.

For years and years the US goverment has paid farmers not to grow crops and then subsidise them when they put them on the world markets almost squashing any competition so as to look after themselves.

You don't walk out of a game just because now you are losing.

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:38 PM
reply to post by Europe

EXACTLY it spins my head that people need a law to tell them to buy goods from the companies you want to do well and not from those you don't like.

The simple fact is the nation is built on GREED, no one cares who suffers when they get a good deal because they can only think about themselves -this goes for the very highest people right down to the lowest bennifit mom and it covers EVERYONE in between.

The global economy has let those nations with the power, UK, USA, EU, etc to force terrible suffering on those that don't South America, Middle East, Africa, Asia, etc and you've all been loving it, asking, no, DEMANDING more and more, those other nations have been pressed harder and harder. You went crazy when they dared to strike back and caused millions of deaths, now that your silly system has crumbled you think that people are going to feel sorry got you? HA!

You can't wash your hands of this and pretend it was all the bankers, look at your life -can you really say that you haven't been part of the problem?

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:38 PM

Originally posted by detachedindividual-

Sorry, I must be having a "senior moment" I don't understand how war crimes over the last 3,000 years has any bearing on a debate about ignoring current trade agreements.

My point still stands too, I hate globalization and believe it should be destroyed. But America signed up and now it's not "convenient", therefore it can just be ignored?


He is pointing out that not all citizens of a country should be held accountable for its crimes.

I know you just dont get it. You seem to have the rather common "hate on America and overlook all our own failings" attitude that sooooooo many Brits and Europeans do.

If you want out of the agreement, get out. Just dont expect Americans to stay in an agreement made by people in our country that do not have our best interests at heart simply because you dont have the courage to insist your government does the same.

You bottom line argument, stripped of all its trappings is,

"you made you bed, you lie in it."

By that logic, if my parents sold themselves into bondage, I am just simply going to have to suck it up.

And, my bottom line argument is "stuff that."

What my parents and grandparents agreed to is NOT binding upon me. I have the right, the self declared, God and nature given right, to make my own decisions. And I think the WTO and their trade agreements are wrecking havoc on the little people of the world and need to be stopped. And if you think that that opinion is "new" simply because of this economic crisis, then you havent ever seen video of the protests the WTO faces here in the US.

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:40 PM
reply to post by Frankidealist35

I don't think Europe is trying to negotiate, they just want the US to keep their end of the bargain ?

Crisis is hitting hard all over the world as we speak, and we would all benefit from using this strategy, but in hte end it would only make things worse imho.

People alos suggest here to stop low-cost goods from other countries, question is, can we afford home-made goods as they would be much more expensive ?

Just think of all goods imported from China ?
Losing your income because having no job, and seeing your daily life becomming more expensive because of local-made products ?

Dont think this is the right solution....

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:42 PM

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
I disagree with what you SEEM to be saying that a people are for perpetuity bound by the agreements of its leadership.

No, that's not what I am saying.

This agreement covers many different things, not just construction materials.
What I'm saying is you cannot pick and choose which parts of the agreement you decide are now not convenient while enjoying the benefits of the rest. Which is what every nation is now seeing America proposing.

This agreement, from what I can see, covers everything relating to trading in foreign markets as well as imports and exports.

If it works as I understand it to, how do you imagine McDonald's, Walmart and Coca Cola (to name a few massive global American brands) will survive?

If every nation decides to do the same, how will it affect American business and how many more millions will loose their jobs in the USA as a result?

If America decides to ignore this little part of a global trade agreement, it will have ramifications throughout the world. But America will face a huge catastrophic impact financially if other countries follow the lead.

posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:44 PM

Originally posted by Choronzon

Originally, I did not believe that the European Union had the power to set US policies. But now it appears that not only do they have ultimate control over Europe but it seems like they do in fact have the ability to tell the United States how to run their own country. This maybe the first fore-shadowing of whats to come from the NWO illuminati.
(visit the link for the full news article)

I don not agree. The Eu does not have ultimate control over Europe. Is has strictly limited control. And with this limited control we were able to save a lot of countries form sheer poverty by ensuring financial reserves,
we were to make sure that anywhere in the EU you can savely drink water from the tap (without additives as fluor),
We were able to take more care regarding the environment with general restriction on industrial wastes,
We were able to free our kids from national chains so they can study and live anywhere in the EU.

Without the EU we would be sitting ducks for the US-staged Financial Crisis.

And that's why the EU is polling against protectionism from anywhere in the world. In this "crisis" is to fairly simple to take 5 steps back and fall back imto old fashioned protectionism. We need to grow towards a new world indeed, in which we are all vicrim of this socalled crisis. Protectionism is not going to solve it. But if you want you can do it. You buy american stuff with the money that is funded by the rest of the world. Because after living tens of years on credit, there is nothing left.

See the charts in the balances:

#1 China: $371,800,000,000.00 2007
#2 Germany: $254,500,000,000.00 2007
#9 Netherlands: $47,310,000,000.00 2007
#184 United Kingdom: -$119,200,000,000.00 2007
#186 United States: -$731,200,000,000.00 2007


My own little country on #9 there, that's my savings right there.

Isn't that interesting, the country that tried to CONTROL the world has the biggest debt...and now they want to buy only American.

You can also see very good which financial system works the best. The anlo-saxon sytem (uk-usa) versus the Rheinland system (Germany and others). France is the ugly duck here. They spent too much on women whatever system they use.

[edit on 3-2-2009 by Pjotr]

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