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The Acambaro Figures

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posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 02:16 PM
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There a few related threads, but they have the goal of proving or disproving man's coexistence with dinosaurs. This thread is intended to study the Acambaro figures themselves. They very well may be a hoax, but there is still some uncertainty. Keep your minds open.

The Acambaro figures were found in Acambaro, Guanjato, Mexico by Waldemar Julsrud in July, 1944. These figures are anachronisms- that means that they are either very out of place or absolutely impossible. There are figurines which appear to resemble dinosaurs. Archeologist Charles C. Di Peso believes that these are simple a hoax. It started with these dinosaurs discovered by Julsrud, but then when he asked the owner of the farm he discovered them on for more, the farmer brought him over 32,000 figures of everything from dinosaurs to representations of ancient Sumerians and Egyptians. Don Patton did a radiocarbon dating on the figures which returned an age date of 6500 to 1500 years old, but there is debate over the conclusiveness of the testing. The strata in which the figures were found corresponds to the possible coexistence of humans and dinosaurs, and the lack of disruption of the strata (which would be present if this was a hoax) encourages many to believe in the authenticity of the artifacts. The dinosaurs themselves seem to be based on actual species, and seem to be more accurate (as if created by experience) than it could be possible for the era in which they were created, since the knowledge of paleontology was essentially nonexistent during this time period. However, many believe that these figures are a hoax because of the circumstances of their discovery and the motives of those who vouch for them (many are young-creationists, who believe that the humans and dinosaurs coexisted.)

Reference Source:
Haughton, Brian. "The Newport Mystery Tower." Hidden History. Illustrated ed.
N.p.: Career Press, 2007.




The Number of Figures and their Condition

The sheer number of perfect figures found is evidence for a hoax. Over 32,000 figures were found, and all of them in perfect condition except for a few that were cleanly broken, obviously to create the illusion of antiquity. If these were authentic antiquities, they would not be preserved with such perfection in such an inhospitable environment. Pottery is almost always uncovered as fragments called sherds; nowhere has 32,000 unblemished ceramics been uncovered with none of them in fragments and all of them in perfect condition (cleanly broken in two does not count as fragments).

www.detecting.org.uk...



I'd also like to remind everyone that I am not a creationist and I do not believe that the dinosaurs existed at the same time period as humans. I would personally lean towards hoax, but the actual dating of these artifacts and their excavation seems to be inconclusive. I would appreciate it if members could refrain from accusing others in this thread, as this is a touchy subject.




posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 02:52 PM
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Fascinating! This is the first I've heard of them. Need to find out more now. I wonder if this could be a whiff of things to come; maybe there is something in Project Bluebeam.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by Catesby
 


What would Project Bluebeam have to do with this?

2nd Line.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


couple of problems with this, it a well known and proven fake

it wasnt him digging them up at all he was paying local farmers per item to dig them up (no wonder the found so many), the ground in many places showed obvious signs of tampering (back fill of the surface strata bieng found in deeper red layers of soil, hand print bieng found in the soil where they decided to dig today just incase they get lucky and fiond a new statue
)

carbon dating is a total joke, sorry cant carbon date pottery, if he got an accurate date from pottery with carbon dating then he is the only scientist ever to do it, completley the wrong tool for the job all readings will be wrong and probabily massivley so, it like trying to hunt mice with wire framed crocodile trap and a pig . as bait

carbon dating only works on organic matter of once living organisms(before they fossalise) and clay wasnt isnt and never shall be as long as its clay

depite the lack of honesty in the usual claims of intense scientific scrutiny (the major of acambaro has them locked away and wont let anyone near them) having been viewed by a small group of people but never actually been allowed to fully examine them in labs

and the scientific coverup over the carbon dating (made by a guy who apparently doesnt know you cant carbon date pottery) becasue alegedly the lab said the tests were inconclusive once they knew what they were dating to hide the truth *cough* the truth the tests cant work on pottery so all result would be inconclusive or plain out wrong?*cough*

its a big hoax kept alive by fringe elements and creationists who are so messed up they have to keep stuff like this popping up and lying about it so they can still believe in god becasue they have based all their faith on an idiotic miguided misreading of the bible, if you god fears testtubes and using the correct dating method its time to find a better one

detecting.org.uk...]

[url]http://www.toarchive.org/indexcc/CH/CH710_2.html

its a nice story its interesting but look beyond the flimflam and sensationalim and it stop becoming an interesting story and becomes all a bit silly

[edit on 3/2/09 by noobfun]

[edit on 3/2/09 by noobfun]



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by noobfun
 


I quoted the same site that you did in my OP, obviously I've looked there.
Carbon dating could be a joke, right, but many people believe in these figures.

I started the thread because there wasn't an open minded one lying around that doesn't support the idea of a hoax or of dinosaurs existing with humans.

If it is a hoax, which I think it probably is, why would someone go to the trouble of making 32,000 of these figures? Did they think lying would get them a better profit? Why put in so much effort?



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


your a poor farmer and some guy tells you to dig holes and look for ancient statues and stuff in the ground and he will pay you for everyone you find and dig up no questions asked

it was piece work archaeology, more you find more you earn

is it anywonder the numbers found are so high, its a regular income for the entire town, no backbreaking farm work just get your kids to make a statue fire it up in a kiln then bury it

... can you see why they may have made thier own buried them at night and dug them up the next day, and why so many of them appeared out of every hole dug?

and with the carbon dating its not could be a joke it IS, its impossable to gain accurate figures by dating none organic matter, its like using a heart monitor to test for a broken ankle

anyonw who believes those dates needs to take a trip to wiki's carbon dating page and check out what C14 dating can and cant do

isnt it funny though creationists are always saying C14 and all other dating methods are wrong innacurate and misquote/misrepresent science papers but when it comes to little pot dinosaurs that shows creationism is right it suddenly starts working accuratley

[edit on 3/2/09 by noobfun]



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:39 PM
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No even a remote chance of being real. A good example of fringe ideas that just will not die!

Thermoluminescence dating would seal it fate, "yet again", if anyone wants to shell out the thousand plus dollars for a test.

Raven here are some suggestions for actual archaeological mysteries, humbly submitted for consideration.

How did the Indonesians get to Madascagar?

Where did the Sumerian comes from?

Who built Gobeki Tepe?

What was the culture of Catalhuyuk?

How did man pass the Flores barrier?

How did man get to Australia?

Did the Polynesians get to North and South America?

Did the Japanese get to N or S America?

How new is the new world? Did early man cross over to here before the paleo-indians?

How many separate migration entered the Americas and when?

What was the earliest 'mother' culture for central and south America?

Where are the Egyptian colonies in Cyprus?



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


I am aware of these topics. I think that these figures are cool, and some people debate that they are real. This is an informative thread, with the history of the discovery of these, and articles supporting them being real AND hoaxes.

Yes of course I think that they are hoaxes. Some people don't. It's not a big deal.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 05:27 PM
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Well.. if I may, I work in a paleo lab with dinosaur bones (QUICK PLUG -- watch Nova this week on "Polar Dinosaurs". That's MY lab (and they hold up one of my bones when they talk about horn cores) and those are "my paleontologists" (who are a wonderful bunch of guys!!!)

Anyway... those "statues" bear as much resemblance to a real dinosaur as my textbook does to your average triceratops.

Now... we could look at it from the "folk art" standpoint and compare folk art images of llamas (found in that region) and donkeys (ditto) and you'll find that even as far back as 2,000 or 3,000 years ago, people made recognizable figures with correct proportions and significant details that confirmed they were llamas (donkeys came later.)

When they do stylized animals, they incorporate lines and shapes that enhance the anmal... but a certain degree of accuracy is maintained. Even distorted (like this one: www.superstock.com... ) there is a certain pattern to the distortion and design.

The statues progress over time -- something that doesn't occur with the real art. That jaguar design carries through in other objects from that culture. The first "dinosaurs" are pure fantasy and later start replicating drawings (which are wrong) in cartoons of the 1940's. Over time they get a little more sophisticated... but NONE of them are correct. This is different from "real art" where important aspects of the animal are enhanced.

There's also the fact that the makers confessed it was a hoax and was done because they were so poor and the toursts would pay so much.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 12:01 AM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


When these have been already established a hoaxes by the farmers (they have confessed to it), what more open minded-ness is required???



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