I Know WHY The World Is So Sick

If animals are part of the processes. It would certainly explain why we have so many Jackasses in Washington, DC. It does not however explain why so many people vote for them.

reply to post by Cythraul

‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’

I dont believe that the world is in such a bad state because of new souls , people are aware of their actions , we live in a world were people just dont care , and the ones that "care" have a open empty highway to do what they want , and dont forget the crappy culture we live in were people are getting more stupid day by day.

And i believe we have souls or to be more correct we are the souls , and this reality is just the first stage of our lives , but i dont believe in reincarnation.

I am sorry if my post doesnt make any sense



[edit on 5-2-2009 by dracodie]

reply to post by Cythraul


Here's a question that may help the discussion. How many of you know someone personally that has memories of being on the other side in spirit form and thus can relate to the spirit form?

What was the experience? (death, out of body, etc.)

How credible is that person and his/her experience?

What did the experience teach about the spirit?

Originally posted by plumranch
How many of you know someone personally that has memories of being on the other side in spirit form and thus can relate to the spirit form?

I'm afraid I don't. I've 'journeyed' to the Otherworld during meditation but have never been certain that this represents pure spirit as the experiences manifested are similar to those in the material realm. Have you?

i am quite sure that all humans and most mammals are conscious beings but i tend not to believe in an immortal soul. although as an exercise let's say that i believe it...

so then what happened to the souls of dinosaurs? and what about those civilizations that died out on other planets or those that still exist on other planets? what happens to their souls?

i loved that one guy saying that "some have souls but most don't and will die and never come back" or smth like that. how cute. let's start a witch hunt with you as the supreme priest that has a soul of course.

how about NOT considering time? if there are souls they will criss-cross time and get into beings in the "past" or "future" without following our linear timelines. besides if souls exist they have to "travel" through space-time to get to the various planets and aeons. so really you just need one soul for all the living beings in the universe...

i'd say there is just the singularity consciousness which is in all of us at the same time because the singularity contains the whole universe or multiverse anyway. so we are all finite once we die, but we are conscious because the singularity's consciousness manifests itself in all of us while our brains live.

i think this very idea could perfectly explain brain injury patients being completely different personalities while still being conscious. or the theory that freezing the brain after death for 500 years will technically bring back that same person, because no soul leaves the body/brain. the consciousness will just "jump back in" because it's timeless and does not care "when" you are.

the world is a sick place because not many humans have the time/resources or intelligence to actually analyze spirituality. they just do what they are told, believe without question in ancient history books or simply choose to ignore the subject entirely.

reply to post by Cythraul


Interesting theory. Let me give you an alternative:
According to certain Vedic texts, human reincarnation of the soul is the highest form of consciousness. The souls of insects, animals, plants and other beings evolve through their deeds (karma - this is NOT a synonym for fate) and finally attain human form. As is said in the texts, the one attribute that humans have different from other living beings is the power of reason. This gives them the ability to perform severe introspection and acute observation which finally culminates in the realization of the divine.

Hence, you may be discounting the fact that the number of souls that have apparently been added to the human populace may be a result of evolution of the souls of other living beings. There is no census available even today, of all the living beings on this planet, hence, we can assume that more human births result in the lessening of the population of other living beings (species becoming extinct etc).

While this is a concept that is different from the western modality of thinking, it is very well accepted in the eastern schools of thought. Karma, deeds, lead to the attaining of dharma, the ultimate realization of the oneness with the divine.

A by note, women - definitely the most suppressed of the two genders, is the epitome of the Creator - they can create life with the complementary interaction of their other gender. This typically, is not a Sin of any kind in the eastern school of thought, it is more of a celebration. Since this entails the responsibilities of parenthood, eastern societies have discouraged the practice of recreational sex, even though this was practiced in many places in the east. Women are definitely the more powerful sex, hence you will find that god is worshiped in the form of devis (female deities - devi has been now slanged to diva) in the eastern societies.

I find many discussions on this site very inconsiderate and ignorant of the eastern schools of learning and thought.

Let me use some numbers for you. This might be very wrong but lets try it.

From year 0 until 2009 there are 2009 years. Now in year 0 there were about 230 million people living. In 2009 years, 230 million people could have lived how many times? Lets say 2 times in a century. That mean that since year 0 the same soul could have lived on earth at least 40 times.

Now if you multiply 230 million x 40 you get 9.2 billion lives. This is without taking into consideration that by 1500 there were 500 million people living on earth and by 1800 one billion. If we add up all people that lived one Earth we would end up with around 40 billion which lived and died on earth.

Now if we divide 40 billion by 9.2 billion we get 4.3. 4.3 multiplied by 230 million gets us one billion. So we have at least 1 billion people living on Earth which have 40 or more lifes on Earth behind them. This is not a small number.

So out of 7 billion currently on Earth at least one billion have some decent experience on Earth. That makes 6 billion people which have well? Maybe no experience?

But we make some very biased assumtions, like before 50.000 BC there were no "humans" with souls ["I believe that mankind acquired a soul around 50,000 BC"]. That is plain wrong, IMO modern man lived on Earth for at least 500.000 years. Now in 500.000 years many civilizations could have been born or destroyed.

Many could have reached billions and then wiped out in some disaster/war, etc. Atlantis Lemuria, just stories, but history for 20.000 BC is none existent. Anything could have happened in 500.000 years, giving souls plenty of time to experince Earth. I read that there were at least 6 or 7 civilizations as big as ours on Earth that were destroyed. So if we multiply 40 billion with 6 or 7 then we get some interesting numbers for available human lifetimes for souls.

260 billion life times, hmmm, then divided by 7 billion we get close to 40 life times for 7 billion souls to live from 500.000 BC until today. Not bad.

Also if you study souls lifes, you will see that often enough souls take breaks of a few decades if not centuries before they reincarnate. That makes things even worse. I believe it is very wrong for us to take Earth as the only place where souls experience themsleves. There are certainly many other places.

But, one thing you are right, the current situation we are in is a clear reflection of the people living on this planet. It is well known that peoples common counsciousness reflects in their environment. So if this world is in dire need of healing it shows that what we have on Earth are souls that are pretty new to this whole experience.

But I think it is very wrong to blame new souls for this, no, actually souls are not new or old, they have no age, they just choose to see themsleves in a new experience eve if this makes them forget what they are, making them "novices".

Earth is an opportunity, especially now when the whole paradigm is changing, this souls want to experience, thus the 7 billion people on Earth now. This number might seem big, but other planets have tens of billion living in harmony and peace.

reply to post by Cythraul


Regarding clayborn and flameborn, in a sense it makes perfect sense haha, but if I were to take that route I'd also have to say that whilst the clayborn might not have goals in life, I do believe they have souls, but souls that might have different goals in mind.

At the end of the day most of us are still just human, and we're doing what we think is in our best interest, whether that's being the mindless pawn for some malicious God, or a goal oriented, ancient soul who is looking to free ourself from this material prison

We all have blood in our veins, we've got hearts, fingernails, hair, brains, wants, needs, aspirations, inspirations

Again, speaking in generalities here, I've got a Cherokee friend who insists his blood is purple.

-JR

Originally posted by Pericle
But we make some very biased assumtions, like before 50.000 BC there were no "humans" with souls ["I believe that mankind acquired a soul around 50,000 BC"]. That is plain wrong, IMO modern man lived on Earth for at least 500.000 years. Now in 500.000 years many civilizations could have been born or destroyed.

Not biased. I used the date of 50,000 BC because archaeology tells us something significant happened at that time - art, culture and religion. I actually agree strongly that art, culture, religion and civilisation are older than 50,000 BC but we have no tangeable record of it, so for the sake of argument I stuck with conventional known-history. What I did assume, based on my own intuition, is that the emergence of art, culture and religion did signify the birth of spirit. I could be wrong but I had to choose a date for the sake of this theory and 50,000 BC seemed the most likely. Modern man didn't emerge suddenly. It happened gradually so it's impossible to say at what point along that evolution we acquired a soul. But again, very complicated because our primate ancestors may also have (had) a soul.

Originally posted by spacecowgirl
I think an understanding of time is required if we are talking about new and young souls as opposed to old souls. You said:

" An old soul has a deep, spiritual memory of the experiences gained in previous lives. Whether they're consciously aware of this or not, they are guided by this gnosis and act with wisdom, compassion and fairness. "

Perhaps previous lives and this life are all existing at the same time? Perhaps time is not a linear construct but infact stacked?

Then there is the matter of souls and are they a separate entity? Or just one?

That is a very simple, yet profound, observation and one that is extremely important with regard to everything in our universe.

I have some thoughts on your comments.. Some of it might sound off in left field for a moment, but if you read on you will see that all of this does apply.

Gravity has a direct influence on all aspects of time. It would almost seem important to think of gravity in the following terms..Gravity is more or less a side-effect of objects with mass existing in our universe. Therefore, objects with mass distort/bend the very fabric of our universe. Since space and time are pretty much the same thing and permeate everything in the universe, the presence of objects with mass not only create gravity but they directly influence time. The more massive an object is, the more gravity it will have, therefore the more that object will distort space and TIME. People are taught that objects with mass are stars and planets.. What alot of people don't understand is that even grains of dust, the family dog, the kitchen sink, and every atom in our universe have some kind of mass no matter how small..Therefore all matter in existence has some kind of gravitational force.

"Time" permeates all space in the cosmos, but not time as we would usually think of it.. There was an old episode of Star Trek Voyager that involved the starship Voyager observing a planet extremely close to a massive star (I think it was a white dwarf or something). In short, what happened is that since time is distorted in the presence of gravity Voyager was able to witness thousands of years going by on this planet every second. Those on the planet just saw a star in the sky that they eventually figured out was a spaceship seemingly frozen in time.

This is a very important concept in understand how time really operates. As far as we can tell, time exists throughout our universe. Without it, there wouldn't be any need for the universe to exist at all.. In fact, it probably couldn't exist in the first place.. So even though time exists everywhere in the universe it is always relative to the location of the observer, the relative speed of the observer, and maybe even if there is an observer in the first place.... Time has existed since the big-bang because time is intertwined with all space in the universe and always has been.
If you think of the hypothetical scenario of time NOT existing at the moment of the big-bang, then there wouldn't have been a big bang at all.. There would be no way for the all that energy to eventually create the first stars and galaxies because there would be no measure of time for particles to interact with one another in the first place.. In fact, if you think of an absence of all time it sounds alot more like what existed before the big-bang. For all we know the sudden existence of time at one point in the universe is what created the big-bang in the first place.

It almost seems prudent to assume that time is more or less infinite with relation to infinite possible interactions between all particles and matter in the universe. This infinite number of interactions would theoretically create an infinite number of universes overlaying one another (Each being different from one another, sometimes only at the sub-nuclear scale..). Each have already existed and died.. We would technically all be experiencing time at the same time except there is a catch. All events have already occurred, transpired, and everything that could possibly have happend in each universe has already transpired. Mayve we are simply viewing a rewound version of these events and the universe already knows what we (and it) will do next..
Sounds wild doesn't it.. But when you think about it, things begin to make sense.. Psychic abilities, dreams, premonitions, deja-vu, all of these things might be "energy leaks" involving energy entering our minds from other universes/dimensions subsetting our own in which those same events have already transpired.

(Stick with me.. the rabbit hole is about to get deeper)
When you think of this, it would also explain connections between souls. Since you would have an infinite number of universes subsetting our own, you have all living creatures existing everywhere at once (because the possibilities of where that person/creature could be located in the other universes at any one point in time is always going to be infinite, therefore all living beings exist in another dimension in all places at once). And if these kinds of "energy leaks" can occur and be observed in the form of people having psychic abilities (just as an example) then these "energy leaks" could also occasionally give us tiny bits of information about the future not necessarily connected to any living person in any dimension. It would definately explain why people see things in dreams that eventually come true (I think most of us have probably experienced that on some level) not to mention things like premonitions, apocalyptic visions, and deja-vu.
So, say, if you had a dream about being blown up by a nuclear weapon or something, it could be because in a parallel universe it really happened.. In fact if there are an infinite number of universes at any given time, then it has already happened an infinite number of times and in an infinite number of places, therefore that apocalyptic vision would be occuring all the time in different universes...

In this kind of model we WOULD basically have "stacked souls" like you are talking about. In fact, it makes more sense when you think about it.

If we really do all have souls then it is clear that we do all have some form of individuality.. In other words, it would seem that we do have individual spirits. When we make a decision to go to the grocery store to get a six-pack, is our brain making the decision or is our soul making the decision? One could argue both ways.. But if the soul really is the "energy essence" of the individual, then of coarse the soul is at least involved in making that decision on some level. We are alive and conscious of our own existences and the decisions we each make..Therefore, in theory, our souls are not exactly "dormant" within a human shell.

Philosophically speaking, If the purpose of life is really to experience, to learn, to grow, to love, etc.. Then we would require some form of soul within our human shell in order to make each of those things happen. If we were simply electricity running through a human brain, our lives would mean extremely little when we died (pretty damn depressing).
I usually like to be an optimist, like alot of you guys I hope. Therefore, what gives life purpose and meaning to me is not just what memories or physical belongings you leave behind to other people when you die, but is also what will happen after we die. The idea of simply fading away into oblivion with no knowledge of any existence at all seems pretty damned cold, dark, and lonely..

-ChriS

reply to post by BlasteR

With regards to that BlasteR, I'm now wondering if time - and the illusion of aging - is actually a result of gravity. Physics dictates that time passes slightly faster the closer we are to the ground. So maybe gravity pulls us, spacially, towards the centre of gravity, and pulls us towards old age in terms of time. Do we age in zero gravity? I'm not sure anyone's been in space long enough to confirm this, or have they?

Originally posted by Cythraul
reply to post by BlasteR

 

With regards to that BlasteR, I'm now wondering if time - and the illusion of aging - is actually a result of gravity. Physics dictates that time passes slightly faster the closer we are to the ground. So maybe gravity pulls us, spacially, towards the centre of gravity, and pulls us towards old age in terms of time. Do we age in zero gravity? I'm not sure anyone's been in space long enough to confirm this, or have they?

What you are discussing with relation to time and vicinity of the earth is something scientists are very familiar with.
It was predicted by Einstein and is known as "gravitational time dilation". "Gravitational time dilation" means basically what it sounds like. A clock in a massive gravity field (close to a black hole, for example) will always move slower than a clock either in a weaker gravity field or not in a gravity field at all. This same concept applies to earth just as it does a black hole. All matter has gravity, therefore all matter always has some form of time dilation associated with its gravity field (however weak it may be). We know that gravitational time dilation exists because it was proven in 1959 with the Pound-Rebka Experiment .

en.wikipedia.org...

I think it is very easy to look at space, time, and gravity and try to make correlations between them. We know that each are linked in some fashion but we don't know what the "glue" is that basically holds them all together. It is possible that they are all manifestations of the same thing and we just don't know it yet.. Maybe we give them all different names and scientific definitions because we simply don't know any better.

We do know that space, time, and gravity each have at least some degree of independence from one another too. The gravity field of earth is much stronger on the surface than it is 23 million miles away. But we know that the difference in time dilation of the surface of the earth and zero gravity space is extremely small. If there was such a huge difference in time between those two points (like you describe it as earth gravity being more or less a harbinger for time) I think we would be aware of it at this point. If such time dilation really existed, astronauts would have experienced it to the extent that we would be aware of it (or at least I would think).

We would still age in zero gravity though (IMO) because space-time is everywhere. In fact you would probably age very close to the rate you would age on earth. The time dilation caused by earth's gravity (with relation to some point in zero-gravity space) is so miniscule that it is be almost non-existent. What would be more of a factor in determining the extent of time dilation would be the speed you are traveling. If you are traveling at near the speed of light, for example, you could fly around for a few years, return to earth, and you could be returning hundreds of years after you left (because of the time dilation). Everyone you knew would be dead by then. Who knows what kind of world you would be returning to.

One big problem is that speed is always relative between two points. (a spaceship from earth for example). But it is actually much more complicated than that...

We rotate around with the rotation of the earth, we orbit around the sun at a very precise speed also. The sun is a star rapidly traveling through the galaxy, and all of this is rotating around in the spiral arm of the milky way galaxy we inhabit. The milky way galaxy is traveling at neckbreak speed already, and we have no idea of whatever other factors we are forgetting to add in. My point is that if you could somehow do all the math and figure out our relative speed with relation to the universe as a whole, we could already be very near the speed of light... Alot of people forget all this. So when you are traveling in your car at 55 mph... You are not. Because speed is always relative to its orientation in a 3-dimensional space with relation to the vessel the 3-dimensional space exists in. When you are driving 55 mph you could actually be traveling at thousands of mph.. We just have no way of knowing what that number exactly ends up being but logically it is always going to be extremely large.

What I'm getting at is that we could already be experiencing an IMMENSE time dilation effect even though we are sitting in the easy-chair in the living room and not moving at all. Time gets extremely bizarre when you start to factor in all these variables. But we also know that special relativity does not exactly prevent time travel into the future or the past. One idea is that you could rotate a giant cylinder so fast that the inner part of the cylinder is still traveling slower than the speed of light while the outer part of the cylinder is traveling faster than the speed of light (which would send the outer part of the cylinder back in time in what would essentially reverse time-dilation). The laws of the universe cannot be broken but they CAN be bent.

-ChriS

I'm afraid I don't. I've 'journeyed' to the Otherworld during meditation but have never been certain that this represents pure spirit as the experiences manifested are similar to those in the material realm. Have you?

reply to post by Cythraul


Not personally but poster sleeper described extensively an experience where he was in spirit form. He was able to move at will, think normally and travel to distant exotic places. I know the man and can vouch for his integrity. You might start by reading some of his extensive work. A lot is on ATS.

I have been thinking about your post for a while now and I can't stop. This was an excellent, thought-provoking, and concievable theory. S&F.

You think the world is in a worse spiritual state than when the Holocaust was taking place? Or when Timur the Lame was piling up skulls? Or when the Mongols annihilated Baghdad?

I think you're wrong, I'm afraid.

reply to post by Cythraul


For anyone wondering if there are such things as spirits or spirits of past loved ones interacting with us the living here on Earth, the most convincing book is SIGNALS by Joel Rothschild.

Spirits are watching over ALL of us. Whether you sense them or not is the only question. They are as common as dirt!

Originally posted by Cythraul

- That the world is in a worse state, socially and spiritually, than it has ever been

I'm going to continue reading, because you're makin' a fan out of me, but first I have to take issue with this. I can't accept this supposition to be a given. I just don't think it's true. It seems like it because it sells cars and insurance, therefore, we're bombarded with it constantly.

On a per capita basis alone, I would say that we're at least more than half as much better than we've ever been in the past, and that's before I even begin comparing all the known 'bad' things to all the known 'good' things and their aggregate impact on society as a whole.

Also, the assumption is based on unquantifiable values and therefore cannot be of a known value.

Of course, those other two have the same problem, but I happen to believe them so I got nothin' to say.

I’d like to introduce a theory into this discussion.

While I too want to believe in the reincarnation theory - and to some extent I do - there’s another little something that keeps creeping up behind me and tapping on the shoulder of my conscience every time the subject of reincarnation comes up.

Cell memory.

We’re learning more and more each day about DNA - how one little cell from anywhere on our bodies can recreate another *us* - how cells migrate when we’re being formed and some might migrate to areas and become brain cells, another cell to our elbows.

And then there are those cells in a woman's ovaries.

She’s born with them.

So like an umbilicus that reaches back to the very first woman - those cells, are there, and alllll the memory from day one built right into them.

Think about it.

When I was born, I had my ovaries already in place, which means I came from an egg from my mother, who came from an egg from her mother which in turn... Ok, you get the idea.

What that means is, I am the first woman, in some respect. - all women are - in some respect.

So...

Is it truly reincarnation?

OR --->

Are the people who are*wiser* - able to tap into cell memory in a way, younger souls are not?

Ok, it’s getting fuzzy here but you see (maybe) where I'm going with this?

So, am I (we) an END product (until I have a child) of the schema of each woman that came before me back to the first woman that ever lived? (The child is the mother of the daughter, the shild is the father of the man)...

We know *We* are in each cell we have (DNA) - that means our memory is there too...

Right???

***So now, I’m not trying to drag this thread off topic, what I’m trying to say is, with the cell memory we all have, are there some that ultimately rejected the *learning* in it - (for whatever reason) breaking the schema of evolving into higher beings?***

And others, go with it, learn, continue to try to become better, the schema stays in place and is built upon in a positive way, the ladder rungs stepping us up to a higher spirituality and being kept in place to build another, and another?

This would explain those who *the sins of the father* kind of thing happens.

Those who regress rather than evolve spiritually?

Those who, for whatever reason, their cell memory schema from day one (Eve Day) has broken, gone bad, and become, for the lack of a better explication - evil.

The serial killers, the rapist, the politicians (levity that)...

While others, though they might not take great leaps and bounds of spiritual enlightenment, do not break the schema, and keep evolving into something more - giving the impression of reincarnation.

And others still - who’ve stayed true to the schema before them, continue to evolve into higher beings with greater abilities, insights, capabilities, etc.

In a nut shell, as original souls we might not be reincarnated, but, our universal soul, is, which would give us the impression of having *been there done that* the more we successfully tap into cell memory, or don’t.

My brain hurts now.

Am I rambling yet?

Which brings me back to the OP.

The best of us are getting better, and the worst of us, well, we’re going south too...

DISCLAIMER: This is all raw thought, I’m still trying to put together, but, I’d rather post it and go with it, than take a chance on loosing it...

Thanks for your patience and for listening...




[edit on 21-9-2009 by silo13]

reply to post by silo13

Fascinating theory silo13. I'm excited by your thinking there. The initial supposition, that we carry the memories of all our forefathers seems pretty rock solid to me. The connotations of that are a little more difficult to grasp.

We are all also energy at some level.

It might be possible that a singular soul could have multiple incarnations on earth at once.

It might also be possible for even more ancient souls to incarnate human beings (more ancient than the initial one million mentioned by the op) in the current timeframe from other times, dimensions, and/or universes (i.e. aliens). Albeit a theory but still just as plausible as human souls incarnating human bodies. Especially since the incarnation would simply involve ENERGY coexisting within a solid human body. It is quite possible that the soul energies of all lifeforms co-exist on a very specific plane or wavelength spectrum of space/time. And in this case, even the souls of aliens might be capable of reincarnation into a human form.

Any theory you can think of is as close to the truth as anything else. We just don't have any idea how this stuff works (If at all).

Indigo children, New age therapies, the whole culture is designed around people making money (just like churches are, IMO). People having psychic abilities, that's one thing. But kids having an ability while being told to believe X, Y, and Z about the universe with no real justifiable or verifiable reason for doing so just blows me away. And of coarse these kids are gonna believe all of this when their parents are paying people thousands of dollars for ridiculous books, literature, videos, and summer camps for indigo kids when they, the parents, buy into all this (quite literally I might add).

IMO, The only reason the idea of Indigo children and/or Crystal Children has caught on in modern society is because some people have slowly come to treat this ridiculous concept as a kind of new-age cult. And, of coarse, if you ask a cult member if they're in a cult, obviously they're going to say "No, all of us are and they just don't know it yet".

I believe humans have very real, very unique potential for psychic and other not-well-understood gifts like astral travel and SRV. We are probably all wired this way in some form or another to the collective subconscious we all inhabit on this very specific wavelength spectrum our souls all co-exist within. I also believe in the paranormal, ghosts, inhuman entities, etc.. But the reason I don't buy into new age jibberish is because people want me to.. and only to make money. And that is not a good enough reason, in my view, to be teaching kids about this like they're some kind of cult initiate that needs to be taught how the universe really works. As if we could ever really know. And Noone can. Because regardless of how psychic we really are, Noone has all the answers. If they say they do, they're lying.

-ChriS