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I Know WHY The World Is So Sick

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posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 01:24 PM
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I agree with the first response. I don't think you are far off the mark either but I have to disagree with one aspect of your theory, and that is there are billions of new souls. I believe there are billions of newer identities but not souls. Those identities can be/are finite.

Most people now don't possess a full soul and are just minds connected to shells. When those people die they cease to exist all together and will not come back at all.

Although those that don't have one can earn one or "add" to one and could have a higher self that is attached to them to facilitate this. That is actually the part that you are calling an "old soul". It is a combination of the earth-born identity (some call that the “ego”) and an entirely different much older identity. We are multidimensional and as such there are some of us that can have a "higher" soul linked to us for various reasons. It's similar to many philosophies (like Kabbalah) in that we can have more than one part of what we consider the soul.

There was never going to be six-seven BILLION souls here anyway as that would be much more to deal with than possible. It is possible to CREATE a soul based on one of those earth-born identities but again that is something that has to be performed by someone able to do so.

Someone above us but below “God” as it were.

- Lee

-edit grammar

[edit on 4-2-2009 by lee anoma]

[edit on 4-2-2009 by lee anoma]




posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by prevenge
 


HAH...I suppose I should have read through all of this thread before merely responding to the first post, but it seems that you beat me to the punch with yourst. Yes we have to grow/earn one as I said, and although I said it a bit milder, and it will be a blow for most to learn, we ALL don't have one and most simply disappear.

It's much more complicated than most know, yet so simple at the same time.
Nothing like the beautiful cake we are told to eat, not worry and be happy.
Jesus died for or sins...so you're all good.

Yeah...right.

Starred.

- Lee



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by rancelot
The concept of 'renewing' souls is quite apropos.

To put it a Biblical context for some reference point, God created Heaven and Earth. There was a rebellion in Heaven and God cast those demonically led angels into outer darkess (ie space) into a lake of fire (the Earth is a huge lake and the sun is its fire). We are those fallen angels.

This is just a stopping off place, however. Here we choose to ascend either to Heaven or descend further into Hell. Earth is definitely not in Heaven, but on the Hell side as Satan roams to and fro' seeking whom he may devour.

Furthermore, God created Adam, the first fallen angel, from the dust of the earth. However, he did not create Eve, but fashioned her from one of Adam's ribs while he was sleeping. This is where God made his first critical mistake.

When Adam joined with Eve, Adam was actually 'doing' himself (to put it politely). They had three sons Cain, Abel and Seth who all apparently had incestuous relationships with their sisters.

God hates incest, and yet His whole creation is based on it. That is the fatal flaw that has continually gnawed at mankind.

We are spiritual beings trapped in a physical body (ie ribcage, a fitting prison indeed). The only way out is to ascend.





Please don't teach these stuff to your kids for the sake of humanity's future.


Thanks!



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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There is an individual spirit in every life form. It is the original essence and the same essence as the Supreme Being. It will return to the purely spiritual worlds when it's use of matter is exhausted, when it's original imperfections have been removed by the desires it need to express. The world in in the crapper because of Grace of the Supreme Being. Because the process of exhausting the original imperfections and karmic debts from being in the world is well underway. Because the Supreme Being manifest himself and began the evacuation in the 1800s. The great deception is in believing the world is our true home and that we need matter and belong here. Spirit and matter are different. Spirit animates matter. Matter can do nothing on it's own. When you die and leave your body, your body is not going to accomplish anything. Everything comes from the spirit essence.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 05:45 PM
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It's like the time my little brother set up a 10 foot pyre made of cardboard boxes and fallen palm leaves then set it on fire...in our driveway....in the middle of our neighborhood



I never thought about it like that, makes a lot of sense, I don't think we're sick though I just think those who are younger are having a case of "terrible two's"


edit to add:

on second thought I also brought this concept up to my fiance the other night, which stemmed from the movie Milk

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me the places where there is a greater potential for good there is a higher rate for the bad, think Gotham City in Batman: The Dark Knight, you have your character of Batman, almost like an ultimate good, then up comes the Joker who is balls to the wall insane and evil.

San Francisco for example, had the assassinations of Harvey Milk and George Mascone, then later on Dan White's suicide, the Zodiac killer, David Carpenter, THeodore Durrant etc

idk... seems to make a connection to me... or I could be crazy

[edit on 4-2-2009 by bandaidctrl]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 07:54 PM
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In my current understanding, souls choosing the most difficult of lives here are usually the greatest among us for they knew what they might experience as life choices here but came here anyway. How incredible then are those souls? How beautiful that they would choose the harshest experiences while we choose the easier?
reply to post by Tayesin
 


I see Earth as a 1 on a 10 point scale. Ie. not a very desirable place to come for a soul. Challenging? Yes. Instructing? Yes.

I chose to go to Africa in my Peace Corps assignment. It was tough, difficult, perplexing, challenging, on and on, I don't want to go back. But I look back at the experience positively.

Earth is somewhat the same thing for a soul, IMHO. Not an easy assignment and I doubt that if the soul gets to do the choosing that it would return here. Not without some favorable preconditions. Like you serve out your term in this assignment and next time your choices will be better. Why would a soul want to experience again and again the common challenges of human life like anger, frustration, boredom, pain, anguish, jealousy, horror, disgust, on and on? Just to occasionally experience the positives like love, appreciation, satisfaction, beauty, etc. ? Answer, your soul is probably here because it was forced to take this assignment in order to learn the lessons needed to progress to a higher level of existance. The exception might be the soul that takes Earth somewhat like my Peace Corps assignment... voluntarily.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by Cythraul
 


It is a captivating idea isn't it? I had the same general notion occur to me years ago, not necessarily in relation to our current state as a species and the degradation that is taking place but more or less the baseline idea of... I don't know how to say it but I will just call it "collective energy" for the sake of this post and theoretical standpoint. Don't wrap me up in Newtonian what is mass, what is energy.... for me it's all the same.

Now, I will try and keep this in layman/esoteric terms but it is possible I may go astray... anyway. End disclaimer. Here goes for all you free thinkers:

___________________________________________________________________

I believe in some way or another, that this "collective energy" is on a major level, 100% of the entire known (and possibly unknown) makeup of the universe. I'm not sure if it is subatomic particles, neutrons... whatever..

Well, regardless this "collective energy" is finite in amount, the universe cannot just make more on a whim, nor can it expend this energy into nothingness. It is a constant, a set amount that is incomprehensible to us from our own understanding, and more than likely will be forever.

Let's just say for example, all of the given "energy" of our universe (or multiverse) is equal to 5 gallons of water in a bucket... for displacement purposes only. Since that is what the jist of this is, basically the displacement of energy.
So take that 5 gallon bucket of water and try pouring it into a funnel on top of a test tube... now much ends up on the table? Probably alot. How much evaporated? who knows, how much was converted into hydrogen? Once again who knows. More variables, more dimensions unknown.

To expand some more:
So, all of these souls are based on this "collective energy" so to speak, which is also finite, and with that assumption I would reckon that is is possible to transmutate into other living things, whether in part or as a whole. Either way, something is displaced... ending up as something else. Yin/Yang philosophy there.

The memory issue is what seems to provide a problem with the whole theory, that somehow this energy retains some past vibrations or awareness. That is the part that I feel this whole thread the OP posted is about, and it is very hard to wrap my head around, from a realistic standpoint even.

Is it possible, that the memory remains... the same as with the energy only to be displaced as well? What if it might not fully regain it's full self, only picking up shards of memories and recordings of what is has done in the past? Maybe someone got the full deck when some are just missing a full hand. Very likely methinks, and that could be a valid point to the sickness here. Not only as a human species but all things included.
To take it a step further, sure... some people are sick because they are relatively new so to say, some could have got a crapload of bad collective memories.
Someone dies, somewhere a star burns out... somewhere someone gets a new idea from nowhere, a tree is born halfway around the planet. The process continues, here and elsewhere. Who really knows what is going on out there, on those other planets... even here just in the Milky Way?

With all of the cosmic dust floating around out there you could say that somewhere, someone has done this all before. Or have they? I certainly feel like there are parts of me that have lived other lives, so your theory is a breath of fresh air.


Our experiences only mould this putty of being IMHO.




In the beginning, one was all.


____________________________________________________________


So there you have it, my theory of everything. (a work in progress)
Thanks for opening the mind, OP... I have enjoyed reading this thread immensly. I would love to have to opportunity to expand on this idea at a later date, but for now:
It's beer 30.
I return you the rest of you to your regularly scheduled program.



T-



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:25 PM
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And here's the punchline for this theory:

If we kill off a large portion of the population and stop population growth so that the population never ever grows higher than it currently is, then we will never have any new souls, and won't have the problem of the world 'being sick'.

It is a credible argument for eugenics, no?



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by nrky
 


My theory or the OP's?

Just wondering before I counter.
Similar ideas you know


Thanks in advance.

T-

[edit on 09/2/4 by telemetry]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 11:27 PM
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::Noticing OP's avatar:: Vulture Culture is a great album.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 12:03 AM
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I like the concept but I think you could be missing something...if souls are infinite...then these supposed new souls could easily have come from other planets or other dimensions.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 12:03 AM
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I like the concept but I think you could be missing something...if souls are infinite...then these supposed new souls could easily have come from other planets or other dimensions.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 12:56 AM
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Originally posted by nrky
And here's the punchline for this theory:

If we kill off a large portion of the population and stop population growth so that the population never ever grows higher than it currently is, then we will never have any new souls, and won't have the problem of the world 'being sick'.

It is a credible argument for eugenics, no?


That exact principle is discussed by this physics professor from the University of Colorado (one of my favorite youtube videos).

I can't remember which part of the video he discusses that particular part though (I think it is either part 3 or 4). There are a total of 8 videos in all. This is part 1:

"The Most IMPORTANT Video You'll Ever See (part 1 of 8)"


Once you start watching it you can't stop! It's really interesting when you think about what he is saying.. It's pretty scary actually.

-ChriS



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by spitefulgod
If you believe in soul transfer between species via reincarnation, does that make you a murderer if you eat meat??


If you look at native American spirituality/mysticism in particular you will see that the most likely answer to that question is yes. From the native American point of view, you are killing another living being and taking the lifeforce from that creature in order to feed, clothe, and house your family. Therefore, not only was hunting a taught/learned ritual meant for finding food but it was also a spiritual encounter (and still is). The animals were respected, almost cherished for their sacrifice and nothing from the animal was ever wasted because of this.

Most people don't have this same kind of respect for the creature itself after it is hunted and killed. That's mostly just because our modern society has different values, norms, and ethical standards. Modern ethical standards in the U.S. (alot of them anyway) have derived from the bible. The Native Americans that lived here before America was basically invaded and taken over did not really base their morals or spiritual beliefs on any specific literal text. It was more like the Aborigenes (spelling?) in Australia or Native Alaskans in which spiritualism, morals, and values are all taught from one generation to another by medicinemen (usually in the form of stories, tales, and songs). Because of that, Native American mysticism was more or less an apprenticeship training course.

They believed there was almost a fundamental understanding between them and nature that they had to coexist. They had a very complex spiritual belief system but it was all based on this idea that everything is connected to everything else via some kind of lifeforce and they also meditated. Just as we see today in modern society, some believed they were capable of communicating with supernatural forces.

It could be argued that we wouldn't be able to experience spiritual fulfillment at all unless we really were connected in some way on a deeper level. If we weren't connected to something, we would never be able to experience moments of profound self-realization while meditating or have dreams that eventually came true. Not to mention deja vu, psychic abilities. Then there is paranormal phenomenon which proves in and of itself that human intelligence on some level can still exist in the form of energy instead of physical matter even after death..( I have studied/investigated paranormal phenomenon in depth for 4-5 years now).

-ChriS

[edit on 5-2-2009 by BlasteR]



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 04:46 AM
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Originally posted by bandaidctrl
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me the places where there is a greater potential for good there is a higher rate for the bad, think Gotham City in Batman: The Dark Knight, you have your character of Batman, almost like an ultimate good, then up comes the Joker who is balls to the wall insane and evil.

A fair analogy, and a sentiment that I largely agree with. good cannot exist without evil and vice versa. But that's a slightly different subject, as what we're talking about here are immature souls, not inherently negative ones.


reply to post by telemetry
 

Thanks for your interesting input.



Originally posted by nrky
And here's the punchline for this theory:

If we kill off a large portion of the population and stop population growth so that the population never ever grows higher than it currently is, then we will never have any new souls, and won't have the problem of the world 'being sick'.

It is a credible argument for eugenics, no?

That is the controversial, yet credible conclusion to all of this. I'm an big proponent of world population reduction, but vehemently oppose culling. This is another very complicated subject which incorporates the reluctant necessities of Nationalism (certain ethnicities outbreed others and spill beyond their borders, resulting in some pieces of land that are able to be self-sufficient and others that aren't); government interjection (actually, I don't believe the government should prevent excessive births but should rethink their benefits systems to retract the incentive for certain people procreating excessively).



Originally posted by VicSage
::Noticing OP's avatar:: Vulture Culture is a great album.

Funny thing VicSage. I had no idea it was an Alan Parsons album. The ancient symbol of the snake/serpent devouring its own tail has spiritual significance to me and whilst googling for an image of it I came across that and found it striking. Ironically I did 'borrow' a couple of Alan Parsons vinyl records from my Dad recently (not Vulture Culture) but haven't got round to listening to them. Thanks for the heads-up.



Originally posted by BlasteR
If you look at native American spirituality/mysticism in particular you will see that the most likely answer to that question is yes. From the native American point of view, you are killing another living being and taking the lifeforce from that creature in order to feed, clothe, and house your family. Therefore, not only was hunting a taught/learned ritual meant for finding food but it was also a spiritual encounter (and still is). The animals were respected, almost cherished for their sacrifice and nothing from the animal was ever wasted because of this.

I've always loved this about Native American tradition. And actually, if you read up, the same approach was taken by most of the world's major Pagan cultures - Germanics, Celts, Australian Aborigines, Siberians, Africans etc.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 05:24 AM
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It appears there are a multitude of very strong opinions and beliefs on this subject. Some are certain we're yet to grow souls, others think we all share one universal soul. Some are sure many of our souls are from distant space, while some 'know' we able to reincarnate anywhere in time...

But one thing many share is this certainty that our personal belief is correct. I just wanted to address this issue because some of the posts have been bordering on arrogant and close-minded. Faith is a powerful thing and it's very easy to dismiss other ideas as 'short-sighted', but I do feel we'd all get more out of this if we held back on our judgement instead of rushing to instantly dismiss alternative viewpoints to our own as rubbish. The title I chose for the thread might suggest arrogance on my part, and if it does, I apologise. I cultivated a theory and wanted a title that would effectively grasp attention. Just trying to play the ATS game
.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now... there's an idea I wanted to introduce somewhere along the thread and I hope it gives everyone more to consider.

There are certain Gnostic sects who hold a belief based on the idea that not everyone has an eternal soul. I'm no expert on Gnostic sects and am only familiar with one - Anti-Cosmic Luciferianism. As a snapshot of their belief: Lucifer is the true god who created eternal souls, whilst Jehovah is the malicious god who imprisoned those souls in a material universe of his making, for his own amusement. The only way to return one's soul to the acosmic realm beyond this world is to attain gnosis of, and connection with Lucifer. Now, here's the relevant part: the human race is divided into 'flameborn' and 'clayborn'. The flameborn are the eternal ancient souls forged by Lucifer and they are reincarnated time and time again until they achieve gnosis. The clayborn are soulless humans made by Jehovah to propagate his 'ant farm' Earth. There are a very small number of flameborn humans wandering Earth - not sure of numbers but it may be around 1 million. The rest are clayborn.

What do you all think? This is another approach - an extremely elitist one, that offers an alternative to the premise set out in my OP.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 06:25 AM
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I think an understanding of time is required if we are talking about new and young souls as opposed to old souls. You said:

" An old soul has a deep, spiritual memory of the experiences gained in previous lives. Whether they're consciously aware of this or not, they are guided by this gnosis and act with wisdom, compassion and fairness. "

Perhaps previous lives and this life are all existing at the same time? Perhaps time is not a linear construct but infact stacked?

Then there is the matter of souls and are they a separate entity? Or just one?



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 07:18 AM
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Originally posted by spacecowgirl
Perhaps previous lives and this life are all existing at the same time? Perhaps time is not a linear construct but infact stacked?

I like this idea and it's definitely something I've taken from the thread. But it's important to acknowledge that according to the most common perception of reincarnation - whether right or wrong - souls are believed to reincarnate in linear fashion.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 07:22 AM
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I have to say I think I agree with you. I have done past life regression and becuase of my own experience I do believe in reincarnation. I think that your reasoning may be true. That is a good explanation of why people are so crazy. They are unexperienced and there are not enough "older" souls to lead them. Good Point!!



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by Cythraul
 


Yeah no doubt, like I said it was just a thought I decided to tag onto my response (to me it connected some way)

Another theory I have, as has been mentioned before, is the idea that some of our memories/souls are in pieces, the universe cannot create and destroy energy at a whim, but occasionally, a soul is split into smaller pieces in order to create a new soul (it's one of my theories behind life long friends/soul mates, we're are so closely connected to those closest to us because we in fact share pieces of the same soul), not necessarily sharing memories and lifetimes and all that, but essential pieces of our beings (this would be different from the idea of Twin Flames)

Also, I'd like to add that I agree with the statement about memories being fractured as reincarnation occurs, but I also think it depends widely on the capabilities of the body that we inhabit in this lifetime and it's ability to delve into the past efficiently. I remember being able to do certain things extremely well in a past life, and in this one... well in some cases I'm just grasping at straws.

-JR

edit: spelling and stuff XD

[edit on 5-2-2009 by bandaidctrl]



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