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I Know WHY The World Is So Sick

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posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 05:15 AM
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Originally posted by Cythraul


- The existence of an imperishable soul within each of us

/quote]

nobody has a soul unless he cultivates it physically.

study some Kabbalah and Gnostic teachings.

you'll understand Kundalini rising and the fact that retaining animalistic tendencies prevents you from growing a solar body .. a soul. "sol"...

sorry to burst bubbles.. but your personal theory doesn't correlate with the ancient founded teachings of all religions.

it takes work and discipline and the aversion from temptation and taming and controlling the inner lucifer. .and defeating the inner satan to literally... physiologically.. GROW .. a "soul"...

-




posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 05:27 AM
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Cyth you have once again shown your considered wisdom!

I agree with points 1 and 2 in total, however I'm not so sure about point 3.

Syncretic history culled from various sources teaches us that the world was a less materialistic, yet happier place many eons ago. Most religions state that the world is in a state of degeneration throughout time, and gets more and more imperfect.

In this regard, the "new souls" theory might well be the answer. I have always thought that the wisest of humans have an older soul, and are more progressed along the path of eternal learning. These must be few and far between when compared to the infantile souls of the vast majority.

The repercussions and strands of thought are too numerous to type here, so all I can say is thanks for bringing the topic up. Perhaps some sort of wiki page where we can all work collectively on a spider diagram would be helpful in discussing all the issues- would be a cool addition to ATS.

What say you three amigos?



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 05:34 AM
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Thanks for all the replies! Had no idea so many people would offer such incredibly insightful input. I'm wondering if ATS is a magnet for 'old souls'. I'll try and catch up.



Originally posted by gate13
how can anyone estimate the population of the world around 50,000bc

The precise population at 50,000 BC is not important. Even if there were ten times as many humans as estimated (10 million), that's still only 10 million original souls as opposed nearly 7 billion today. While at it, why not question my asumption that souls were given to us in 50,000 BC? I was really hoping someone would do that, as it's a complex part of the theory
.


reply to post by highfreq
 

Interesting. I've not heard of John Lear's 'soul machine'. Thank you.



Originally posted by Totakeke
if souls are reincarnated, then how do the souls know if they are spiritually mature?

We don't - at least not consciously. My belief is that we all have an inner-self that is our immortal soul. That inner-self holds all of the knowledge of our past lives (if any) and it is a question of how well we're able to communicate with our inner-self as to how much of our previous-life experience we're able to access. Most of us don't even know we have an inner-self - as Skyfloating pointed out at the very beginning



reply to post by Ciphor
 

Thank you Ciphor. I enjoy developing my presentation and writing skills.



Originally posted by Adam West
Are there any traits or things to look for that might indicate that your an 'Old Soul' ?

Read, meditate and spend time in nature. These things will activate your inner-self and you'll soon start to 'feel' your spiritual age. Beyond that, true compassion, empathy and the strife for self-improvement are all good indicators of an old-soul. Recognition of spirit is also a sure-fire proof of reasonable age. Terminal materialist/atheists who refuse to accept anything beyond what our 5 senses perceive are likely to be newer souls.


reply to post by danielsil18
 

Great elaboration on the original premise. I'm glad people are fleshing it out.


reply to post by vteckillas937
 

You're welcome! Had no idea this stuff would be fresh to some people.



Originally posted by obsidience
To add to Reddupo's statement, what makes us think that time is linear in regards to a soul's past life?

It's just a loose assumption, currently. I base it on the fact that in all instances of past-life regression I've heard of, no-one's 'past' life seems to have been in the future. But I'm very open to new ideas regarding this part of the theory.


Originally posted by obsidience
Final issue I have is that you seem committed to the fact that every human has a soul. I'm skeptical of this. I sometimes wonder if a human without a soul is still a personality, just one that perishes in time. And if so, is the relationship symbiotic? Would souls add something beneficial to the human existence?

Interesting you should mention that. There's a Gnostic belief - based on the premise that only some people have souls - which I was planning on introducing to the thread in due course.



Originally posted by corusso
So in regards to your theory I wouldn't say the souls are necessarlly young, but maybe new to the human form.

Also souls could be living lives on many different planes at the same time.

Both good points that I accept as possible. Again, great to see the skeleton being fleshed out.



Originally posted by Zerbst
I like this theory very much! Great thanks to the OP!

You're welcome Zerbst! I really like your approach to good and evil and largely agree. If the goal is to obtain ALL knowledge, then that includes knowledge of both goodness AND evil. Knowledge of only goodness would result in an incomplete wisdom. Regarding the animals/50,000BC thing - yes there are factors I haven't considered (and didn't even attempt to), though I don't believe their absence fundamentally changes the core theory.



Originally posted by suterlaben
-While I don't think you can "blame" young souls for the problems in our world

Love your take on it suterlaben. You've given me yet more to think about. NB: Just want to clarify that I'm not suggesting we blame the young souls per se (hell, most of us would have to take blame from souls even older than us, if that were the case).



Originally posted by VelmaLu
It is interesting you judge the planet as "sick", when in fact, it may be that more advanced souls have returned at this time and volunteered to create this environment to give some souls an opportunity to evolve. . . that without this environment, they could not progress.

This idea fits in well with a great thread a few months ago: Window of Opportunity. The idea that a negative state of circumstances on Earth is essential for souls to accelerate their learning, or motivate them to act positively.



Originally posted by BlasteR
The problem with giving the human soul a date of creation vs. the body's biological shell is that we have no way of knowing whether or not we have something special that other creatures in the animal kingdom do not.

I agree that creatures communicate, but could that not be an evolutionary trait? My assumption that the soul is roughly 50,000 BC is based on the fact that around that time we suddenly developed culture, art and religion. These are things which are not necessary for basic survival, therefore one has to question what caused them to occur! I do believe spirits reside in animals too, despite the fact that none demonstrate art and religion in the same way as us. I don't have all the answers (in this lifetime at least
).



Originally posted by prevenge
sorry to burst bubbles.. but your personal theory doesn't correlate with the ancient founded teachings of all religions.

This isn't the place for absolutes prevenge. You may be correct in your teachings, but mine are not a 'personal theory'. What I've stated lies at the heart of most ancient traditions and I'm afraid I've never read of 'growing a soul'. I'll gladly educate myself on what you know, but for now we'll have to accept that our beliefs differ a little.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 06:27 AM
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Hi Great thread!

My belief is that the human body is like a protective "suit" the soul wears to experience life in this physical dimension. Time does not exist in whatever realm the soul resides when its finished its current experience. Thus when a soul is given the free choice of experiencing the material world again (keeping in mind that time does not exist in this realm), that all souls agree, as a life time on earth would be only a blink of an eye in this realm.

However, as always I am left with more questions than answers. Like
1. We must remember that our brain is in control here on earth and everyone is born with a conscience. But as we all know the human brain can and is been manipulated with all the chemicals us modern day humans pump into our bodies. As well as defects that happen to the human body etc etc
So how can a soul be responsible for the actions of the brain???? Trust me I have serious amounts of questions for you all. Im going to think about these carefully and come back to you on it.

Star and Flag!



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 06:30 AM
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If you believe in soul transfer between species via reincarnation, does that make you a murderer if you eat meat??

As I don't subscribe to the notion of having a soul or life after death I can't really comment further but I think the problems with todays world is too much knowledge, back in the olden days people were kept in their place through ignorance, and as we all know ignorance is bliss.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 07:04 AM
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reply to post by die_another_day
 





do you think overpopulation is good for this planet and all the organisms?



Depends what your your definition of good is

It would appear that Genes don't think, they just do.

If we are talking about souls, then overpopulation shouldn't be an issue if the soul is infinite and none physical. If the physical is but a vehicle for the soul to experience or express itself then would it not be beneficial to experience over population etc in order know the opposite?

If we are a soul which is eternal, then the physical bodies we govern and the planets where we choose these bodies to reside, would be nothing but an illusion no ?

If we are eternal then obviously we cannot die but the illusion of the physical may cease if we choose. So it wouldn't really matter if we destroyed ourselves because nothing is matter, and nothing matters.

Perhaps if we remembered that death is in fact an illusion that we have created in order to experience what we really are. We may then decide not to continue with the experience of destruction and death but choose to experience the opposite.

Needless to say, if we are eternal souls, then whatever choices we make in this reality become immaterial,, because their not material and we can always create it all again should we choose.

??????



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 07:10 AM
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Excellent OP.

Just some things I wish to add here. None of what follows is based in any belief-system, or aligned with any dogma, but is from my current perspective, based solely on my own experiences in and out of this reality over more than 30 years.

What we call new souls are only new to this Experience we call Earth. They actually volunteer for here after finshing off elsewhere, just as we did when this world "came on line" for experiences.

I do not think there are Earth or Human Souls. To me all life-forms in all the words of Experience are equal souls, journeying from experience world to experience world as we all provide the Source with experience of itself.

50,000 years is a drop in the bucket of our universe's time. Many of us here today where already here before then.

That the earth's population increases is not proof of new or old souls being created from the source, it is only an observation of how many incarnates are around, are returning over and over, and, are increased with new arrivals to here as the opportunities arise for them to do so.

From my perspective, we have rounds of lives here, so all up we have many thousands of lives. The reason why we keep coming back is that as the cultures evolve new experiences are coming into it's reality for us to have the experience of.

Also, a soul can and does have multiple incarnations here at any one time. The reasoning for this is quite simple really. The soul, as I see and experience it, is a huge and powerful thing with no limitations to what it can do. When it seeks experience in a world it simply reaches out with a small portion (or portions) of itself to begin the process which leads to incarnation in the physical density.

At the same time the soul is active in every level, dimension or awareness layer.. this should indicate how huge a soul is for it to do this.

Soul does not reside within the body, rather, the body is energized, driven/steered by the small portion of soul awareness so that this body is just a "Contact Patch" on the density world of experience.

We tend to think a soul is somehow flawed and in need of learning and evolving to perfection. I disagree, a soul is perfect already when disseminated from the Source.

I do not think also that a person's level of intelligence, their ability to understand or communicate thoughts, etc, is a reflection of a soul's advancement here. How I remember from my own lives here, is that we choose each incarnation based on the experiences we wish to have and co-create with other souls. To me this does not follow a linear approach as is suggested by our lack of understanding on the subject.

Instead, we choose each life for what it can offer as experience, sometimes we choose the life of excess, or power, or spiritual enlightenment, and then next time we may choose one of limitation, low perspective and understanding, and simple or closed-mindedness.

So, we cannot say that the person who is unable to comprehend what is being said here must be a new soul lacking in experience. That is a value judgement which is typically human in nature and has no place in bigger picture reality.

When you come across someone who thinks in closed or small minded ways, who is a drunk in the gutter, who is poor beyond belief or having great difficulty with life, etc, remember that they are equal soul to you, and then love them for choosing such difficult circumstances for their experience.

In my current understanding, souls choosing the most difficult of lives here are usually the greatest among us for they knew what they might experience as life choices here but came here anyway. How incredible then are those souls? How beautiful that they would choose the harshest experiences while we choose the easier?

You see starving children in poor third world countries as poor souls, yet I see them as amazing souls, brave souls, loving souls and extremely wise while in their dense physical body. Why? Watch these kids, are they not basically happy with their lot in life? Do they not smile when all around them is poverty and despair? This is an indicator of great souls.

Thank you for the opportunity to share

[edit on 4-2-2009 by Tayesin]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 07:11 AM
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Originally posted by spitefulgod
If you believe in soul transfer between species via reincarnation, does that make you a murderer if you eat meat??

Interesting. I don't eat meat myself and I guess I (quite controversially) tend to see animal life as equal to human life. But I'd rather not get into this. It's a whole can of worms that would probably just burden the thread.


Originally posted by spitefulgod
As I don't subscribe to the notion of having a soul or life after death I can't really comment further but I think the problems with todays world is too much knowledge, back in the olden days people were kept in their place through ignorance, and as we all know ignorance is bliss.

REALLY?! Firstly, I think that knowledge was more free and available 3000 years ago (back before 'Priests' were appointed to channel 'wisdom'). And secondly, I really can't agree that too much knowledge can ever be a bad thing. It can depress you, sure, but it generalyl won't cause you to act more negatively.



Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Cyth you have once again shown your considered wisdom!

I agree with points 1 and 2 in total, however I'm not so sure about point 3.

Syncretic history culled from various sources teaches us that the world was a less materialistic, yet happier place many eons ago. Most religions state that the world is in a state of degeneration throughout time, and gets more and more imperfect.

Thank you soulslayer and welcome! I'm a bit confused by what you wrote here though. You say you're unsure about 'given' number 3 and then go on to concur with it.


I believe in a Golden Age, and like the Alchemists, that the world has grown denser over the course of aeons. We started as a very spiritually powerful and free species and gradually densified to the point where we're barely able to see past the material aspect of existence.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:07 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
Yeah. I dont think you're that far off the mark. And you know what else I think? Fairly new souls wont have a clue of what you're talking about....


Well that sure keeps it all in the club. You old souls can keep peering out and s'n-word'ing once in a while, while the others just scurry around bumping into walls.

^^ The word I used was S N I G G E R I N G. -- N-Wording? Get off the herb censorship, ffs. ^^


Oh and by the way: If you're considerations are fairly correct, the world is not that "sick" afterall. Its just a bit of a Kindergarden.

So you see the fights and chaos and mess the kids in pre-school have...its not necessarily "sick", its just immature.

[edit on 3-2-2009 by Skyfloating]


I know I am an old soul. I've been tired of all this twaddle since I was a child. Only in the last few years I've realised WHY I'm tired. I watch from the outside. I don't get involved. Thats safe. But it shows you the truth.

These child-souls or whatever, are not merely in kindy, waiting to grow up. THEY ARE IN CHARGE.

Tyrants are children given power but not the means to understand it's concept.

Too weary to care.. Know its all futile. Our souls are arseholes.. lol

(does that get bleeped? Hope not, dont mean it offensive, just comical)..



[edit on 2/4/2009 by bloodcircle]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by Wachstum
reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


Young and Old does not relate to AGE! Sorry, but that's just not true. You call something young that is childish, not inexperienced

A young soul is a soul that did not learn their lessons...

So, IMHO, the fact that we are all on this planet after approx. half the time the universe exists, suggests that we are all terribly young


[edit on 3-2-2009 by Wachstum]


perhaps english is not your first language. either that or your comprehension is lacking and you are reading into things that are not there. please don't put words into my mouth or lecture me.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 08:44 AM
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Nice post but 50 years is not middle of anyones life expectancy. 100 years is not the norm from my research.

As for the whole soul matter, who honestly can tell if and how a soul can be created? Maybe just like sperm (Sorry) but there are thousands of wanting souls but its a slim chance of being born. Maybe there are billions upon billions that just pot luck it and hope to score.

While creating a human seems simple enough, woman and man... Who actually knows what happens or can happen. Maybe I was a being on planet XXYYZZ last time. Just out of the blue stating only 1million 'old souls' exist is about as silly as me stating that I am from the planet BeezleBe IV and named Bluetoe.

I know you just are giving points of views but just like alot of things this unfortuantly clashed with my mind, which is why I deny all that you say


But honestly who knows;

Bluetoe out.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 11:11 AM
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i tried to answere a question to myself about why there is deja vu how is it that our brain can know what will happen in our sleep its a damn mystery and i thought deeply and concluded somthing similar to what you said only i think we are already dead and we are just re runs our life is just playing over and we are not aware of it but eventually our brains glitch and we dream of what weve already done



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 11:48 AM
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My only problem with this theory is what happens when they are too many souls? Do souls die? If souls are universal then at some point the universes population may have been very large, so there should be a bulk of souls floating around waiting for bodies.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 12:30 PM
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I would make one comment.

You are assuming that as soon as a person dies, their soul immediately reincarnates. Some souls may take days, months, years, decades, to reincarnate. Of course then there are those that hypothesize that souls do not move through time in a linear fashion. In other words, your soul's next life could be in the past. Then there are those that even believe that one's soul can exist multiple times in the same time period, but at different maturity points. In other words, lets say 10 incarnation from now, your soul may be back in this time frame because what it needs to learn is from this time period in that life.

My point of all this being, that you assume that up until recently all souls worked like a conveyor belt and just recycled. I think this is shortsighted and illogical. Purely based on your premise, I think the number of 'first time' souls is much lower than you think. Point is, you are thinking much too linear and too simplistically in my opinion.

[edit on 4-2-2009 by johnny2127]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 12:33 PM
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I am NOT sick I have never felt BETTER.

But, nice thread for those of you who are sick.

Good luck with that?

Maybe try and stop being so stuck on failure and see what you have got.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 12:39 PM
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Nobody reincarnates because the mind is all one source and so when a new child is born it is NOT a specific person's reincarnation but an expression of the one mind/geometry.


Also, please use the word mind instead of soul which just gives people the idea of a ghost like, transparent phenomena which apparently shoots towards the sky after leaving the body. (Ridiculous, I know)


Thanks!

[edit on 4-2-2009 by bignick]

[edit on 4-2-2009 by bignick]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 12:49 PM
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The post should read,"I know why MY world is so sick." You are one of the other ignorant ones that assume the whole world is just like the place you exist in when it is not. Billions of people on this planet exist day to day on less than a dollar. They have no luxuries that you take for granted and a large majority do not even have a permanent shelter. But emotional they are happier than you are and physically they are in better health than you are.Why?



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by Cythraul
 


I like the way that you are thinking and it is a very interesting idea, but something I think you should think about with this theory is that billions of people have lived and died, its not like for every person who dies there is a ratio to people being born. IN addition not all lives are a uniform length, people die from disease and wars. This is a great theory but its not complete



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by calcoastseeker
 


What does that have to do with the discussion?
Might wanna read the OP.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 01:17 PM
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The concept of 'renewing' souls is quite apropos.

To put it a Biblical context for some reference point, God created Heaven and Earth. There was a rebellion in Heaven and God cast those demonically led angels into outer darkess (ie space) into a lake of fire (the Earth is a huge lake and the sun is its fire). We are those fallen angels.

This is just a stopping off place, however. Here we choose to ascend either to Heaven or descend further into Hell. Earth is definitely not in Heaven, but on the Hell side as Satan roams to and fro' seeking whom he may devour.

Furthermore, God created Adam, the first fallen angel, from the dust of the earth. However, he did not create Eve, but fashioned her from one of Adam's ribs while he was sleeping. This is where God made his first critical mistake.

When Adam joined with Eve, Adam was actually 'doing' himself (to put it politely). They had three sons Cain, Abel and Seth who all apparently had incestuous relationships with their sisters.

God hates incest, and yet His whole creation is based on it. That is the fatal flaw that has continually gnawed at mankind.

We are spiritual beings trapped in a physical body (ie ribcage, a fitting prison indeed). The only way out is to ascend.



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