I Know WHY The World Is So Sick

Excelent topic.

This is where I usualy chime in with my Meher Baba take on the subject.

These are my thoughts:
First, the body is not the soul. Souls are in every living thing. A soul starts out as a stone, then moves up (sometimes down) the evolutionary path up to human where it will live many lives till it reaches the 'I am God' state where it becomes One with God.
Every soul must go through these stages to reach "One with God". It may take some souls millions of life times and others less. Every experience is necessary to reach the Everyting that God is.

So in regards to your theory I wouldn't say the souls are necessarlly young, but maybe new to the human form.

Also souls could be living lives on many different planes at the same time.

interesting links:

www.lordmeher.org...

www.lordmeher.org...

[edit on 3-2-2009 by corusso]

I like this theory very much! Great thanks to the OP!

For years I've honed my beliefs on this always trying to ad more and more. I have given a majority of my thinking to this subject and, until now, I've never been inspired enough to want to incorporate others thoughts with my own. The moment I read your thoughts that there are very few old souls currently on Earth it hit me!

This perfectly coincides with the very few people throughout history that are known around the world for their love and goodness alone. People like Gandhi, John Lennon, Martin Luther King, Tibetan Monks and so on. Though my theory differs from yours, this particular thought is very like mine only better!

I believe that, while Evil is despised in our world, on the other side it is definitely not. Good and Evil are equally important and equally loved in the spiritual world. Without Evil there is no Good and that balance proves it just as loved and necessary for our spiritual development as anything else. I also believe that to truly become an old soul, we must experience all aspects of creation, including Evil.

One other thought I had about the population in 50,000 B.C.. We also have to include animals when talking about souls. Anyone that has ever been close with an animal would agree on this. About the population though, if you add all the people that ever lived together, the current living population would hardly be a fraction of that? Without doing the math, I'm pretty sure the numbers could never come close to even? Does this mean souls mature and move on much faster than we may think? It could also support the theory of many other worlds?

Good stuff none the less! Star & Flag my friend!

reply to post by MatrixProphet


Meher Baba calls this removing Sanskaras to reach unity with God..

www.lordmeher.org...

.

reply to post by Cythraul


A Hindu friend of mine from Napal says that you only get one shot at transcending this life once you are born a human. You are reincarnated through lower forms until you are born a human. So, that would make all human souls equally aged. So, if that is true, then I'm afraid your theory would have to be revised in a major way.

I don't really agree with this argument. Who's to say how many souls there were at the start of human existence? And who's to say souls have to follow linear time instead of going back and forth as needed? And who's to say it's always the young ones that are the worst? (though I do believe that new souls can be created, just playing a bit of devils advocate)

I don't think the current global problems are because of immature new souls. I think it has much more to do with the simple fact that humans don't like to drastically change. We need a major kick in the butt to motivate us to do anything significant. When we reach the breaking point, we have an opportunity to reflect on our past and see alternate possibilities and maybe even brighter futures. I think that the world will get worse and worse off until we stop believing in the illusions in front of us. Even if things improve, they'll collapse in on us all over again eventually until we grow beyond our current limited existence.

I strongly believe that primitive species require conflict to drive them forward. Without our conflicts, our growth could very well stop completely. Are we really at a point where we can stop our growth and call ourselves complete and mature?

edit: If you add life on other planets to the equation, it could still apply. Something needs to drive us to grow in a large scale sense. If souls of the same approximate level from different species from different planets are interchangeable, then they'll also need to move forward.

[edit on 3-2-2009 by DemonicAngelZero]

Great thread! I've read some of the responses so I'm going to add some things that I would postulate.


-Some have said that souls are never created, but I think theres another way to look at this. We all come from the "One Infinite Source" or "Creator," which, creates various levels of spiritual existence within itself ("densities" or "dimensions") and sub-creators at each level which in turn create/oversee the souls which inhabit those levels. I'm not sure if animal/plant/planetary souls and "human" or "intelligent life" souls are of the same type, perhaps that's another point of discussion? Either way, because this source is infinite and comprises all that is, it would be able to create more souls as the Creation expands as part of this grand divine experiment, without detracting anything from itself. So I think it's absolutely possible that more souls can be created, but it all works in according to balance. If there is enough life in the universe that can be supported by the current number of souls experiencing the reincarnational cycles at each density, then none will be created. But since the Creation is constantly expanding in accordance with this divine plan, there will occasionally be the need for new soul groups and souls to be created in order to fill those new "available slots." Older souls may also inhabit them and mix with the young souls, and I think this is likely the situation we have here on Earth.

-The simple goal of the One Infinite Creator is simply to come to realize its own infinite potential. Thus the goal of creation, at all levels, is to expand and realize all that is possible. There is infinite potential energy, both spiritual and material, which is available for this. Thus, it is in the interest of the Creator and all sub-levels of it (including us as individual, yet unified souls) to expand and create new life in order to help realize this goal. Thus new souls would need to be created as the force behind said life. Another element of this is that when a soul entity has finished climbing the spiritual "ladder" and finally reunites with, and experiences the infinite consciousness and power, of the One Infinite Creator, the entity is eventually dissolved back into the mix and begins once again the reincarnational cycle at the bottom, although every time it does so the Creation is more vast and complex than it was the last time, thus providing the opportunity for more unique experience.

-While I don't think you can "blame" young souls for the problems in our world, I think it does help explain why most of the people in the world are easily manipulated and are not able to "wake up" as the minority are. Let us keep in mind that at least at the lower densities there exists the negative polarity (Service to self) which causes souls to try to manipulate others. And there's plenty of that taking place here now. Ultimately, I believe that the two polarities unite and the higher densities are purely benevolent, as wisdom is gained from negativity. It pains us greatly though, because it shows us what we are NOT. Although some revel in it, through many lifetimes and several densities they will eventually learn the wisdom that it takes to overcome negativity. Seems very harsh at times, but this is where Free Will comes into play. All will eventually find a path back to the One.


But that's just my take on it, based on many converging viewpoints that I have absorbed, as well as personal experience. I think all major religions are outdated but they all contain pieces of the hidden puzzle which points to the truth. Though I could also be wrong...I will always admit that.


While I don't think that I'm one the most experienced souls on the planet, I think that I am slightly older than the majority. So are many people on this forum, I'm assuming. Human behavior baffles me constantly, both by elites and the common people. Hell, even I baffle myself sometimes. We're all learning.


Again, great thread. Cheers.



[edit on 3-2-2009 by suterlaben]

I agree almost completely but I would like to ask what you think about this side of that idea. Suppose we choose that we want to continue to help evolve the human bodies we have grown into so well and opt to come back as humans. Do you think maybe weestern society as it is has developed ways to have the loving parents of the children reprogram the small children before they are able to start thinking for themselves?
reply to post by Cythraul

It is interesting you judge the planet as "sick", when in fact, it may be that more advanced souls have returned at this time and volunteered to create this environment to give some souls an opportunity to evolve. . . that without this environment, they could not progress.

It may not be a question of good or evil, sick or healthy, it is perfection and what is needed now.

reply to post by Cythraul


INTRESTING...
In reply to 'REDDUPO' post~ " I dont think the earth is the only place souls incarnate to"... I agree to this also..

I myself do not believe in the soul is reincarnated, I believe the soul is eternal.

Also if the following is implemented/understood then I think your on the right path to bliss....

Every living being has a soul.
Every soul is divine with innate, though typically unrealized, infinite knowledge, perception, power, and bliss.
Therefore, regard every living being as yourself, harm no one, manifest benevolence for all living beings.
Every soul is born as a celestial, human, sub-human or hellish being according to its own karmas.
Every soul is the architect of its own life, here or hereafter.
When a soul is freed from karmas, it becomes free and god-conscious, experiencing infinite knowledge, perception, power, and bliss.
Right View, Right Knowledge and Right Conduct provide the way to this realization.
There is no supreme divine creator, owner, preserver or destroyer. The universe is self-regulated and every soul has the potential to achieve the status of god-consciousness through one's own efforts.
Non-violence is the foundation of right View, the existence of right Knowledge and the kernel of right Conduct.
Non-violence is compassion and forgiveness in thoughts, words and actions toward all living beings. It includes respecting views of others (Non-absolutism).
Control of the senses.
Limit possessions and lead a pure life that is useful to yourself and others. Owning an object by itself is not possessiveness; however attachment to an object is.
Non-possessiveness is the balancing of needs and desires while staying detached from our possessions.
Enjoy the company of the holy and better qualified, be merciful to those afflicted and tolerate the perversely inclined.
ITS IMPORTANT TO KNOW~
Four things are difficult to attain by a soul: 1, human birth, 2, knowledge of the law, 3, faith in the law and 4, practicing the right path.
It is important not to waste human life in evil ways. Rather, strive to rise on the ladder of spiritual evolution.
If you practice good always in your life then I believe your following the right path of true bliss and total freedom from the karma of ones own soul.
The goal is is to learn liberation of the soul from the negative effects of unenlightened thoughts, speech and action.
This goal is achieved through clearance of karmic obstuctions by following the right path of always being good, implementing good and never causing any suffering or harm to any living being will then advance you to the path of enlightenment....
As they say we reep what we sew....or if you do bad then you will pay your karma always.......

Is is possible, that most of the people in the world today have no souls? And 'no soul' people do cruel stuff to let the 'have souls' doubt God and the goodness of humanity in general?

Just a thought...

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Yeah. I dont think you're that far off the mark. And you know what else I think? Fairly new souls wont have a clue of what you're talking about....

Oh and by the way: If you're considerations are fairly correct, the world is not that "sick" afterall. Its just a bit of a Kindergarden.

[edit on 3-2-2009 by Skyfloating]

Your Astral body, which inhabits every normal human being, transfers to its Higher Self all the sensations that are experienced during a lifetime in a physical body. These sensations pass through the immense filter of nine Higher-selves before arriving in the ethereal ocean that surrounds The Great Spirit. If these sensations are based essentially on materialism, the Higher-selves have enormous trouble filtering them, just as a water filter clogs quicker if it filters dirty water than if the water was already clear.

If, through the numerous experiences you have in your life, you ensure your Astral body benefits in a spiritual sense, it will acquire more and more spiritual understanding. One body in time, which can vary from 500 hundred to even 15 000 thousand of your Earth years, your Higher Self will have nothing more to filter.

This part of you, could be become so spiritually advanced, it would arrive at the next stage where it would have to contend directly with the more superior Higher Self.

We can compare this process with a nine-stage filter, intended to rid the water passing through, of nine elements. At the end of stage one in the process, one will have been completely eliminated, with eight remaining. Of course, to make this information easier to digest, I am making enormous use of imagery...

This Astral body then, will have completed its cycle with the Higher Self of the first category and will then detach itself from Higher Self number one to rejoin the Higher Self of the second category; the entire process will be repeated. By the same token, the Astral body will be sufficiently spiritually advanced to pass to a planet of the next category, as well.

I see you are not following me very well and I am anxious that you will understand absolutely, all that I explain to you. Do not be like many people who dismiss any need to understand anything.

In his wisdom, The Great Spirit, by means of the Fourth force, provided for nine categories of planets. Where we are from, the planet Thiaoouba, which is in the ninth category; that is, is at the top of the scale.

Earth is a planet of the first category and therefore at the bottom of the scale. What does this mean? The planet Earth could be likened to a kindergarten with the emphasis on teaching basic social values. A planet of the second category would then correspond with a primary school where further values are taught -in both schools, adult guidance is imperative. The third category would comprise secondary schools where a foundation of values allows exploration beyond. Next, you would go to university, where you are treated as an adult, for you would not only have attained a certain amount of knowledge, but you would also start to accept civic responsibility.

This is the type of progress occurring with the nine categories of planets. The more spiritually advanced you are, the more you will benefit, on a superior planet, by an environment and general way of life which is superior. The very way in which you procure food is much easier, which in turn, simplifies the process of organizing your way of life; the consequence is more effective spiritual development.

On the higher planets, Nature itself, enters the stage to assist the pupil and, by the time you reach planets of the sixth, seventh, eighth and ninth category, not only is your Astral body highly evolved, your physical body has also benefited from your development. -Thiaoouba by Michel Demarquet www.myspace.com/secretsofgod

Originally posted by -NewSense-
The only thing that doesn't sit well w/ me is the mixing of old souls and new souls. Since you compared a new soul to pre-k or kindergarten, we'll go w/ that. Is it logical to imply kindergarteners would be put in the same school(earth) w/ high schoolers?

Smart man. that is why certain old souls by their freedom of choice choose to stay here to assist us not as masters but as teachers from time to time. One would be Michel Demarquet. He is on his last lifetime 89th. But was reborn here from a higher category of planet to impart the message from the Thiaooubans here.

I decided to respond to this even though I haven't read all the replies.

I'm sure you realise that the possibilities are not necessarily endless, but there are quite a few.

1. If someone is born and there is no soul available a new soul is created.
2. There is an infinite number of souls around in the universe and they can move from galaxy to galaxy, planet to planet.
3. There is a "reservoir" of existing souls which existed since the beginning and when someone is born (or conceived) one of those souls are taken.
4. Souls? Mechhhh!
5. Etc etc

I'm a sort of agnostic pantheist. My belief is part "faith", part "observational proof". My 2c is that each "soul" is part of the universal soul/essence, i.e. there are no "young new souls". You basically just break off a piece of the universal soul. I also believe these souls carry the memories of all previous "lives" and to go along with my beliefs, they are all one, i.e. if they knew how anyone could access any memory any person has ever had since the beginning. Can you get any more far out than that?

EDIT: I believe the world is "sick" because we are being taught to live for today and not tomorrow. The rich and powerful only care about their own wealth and power and couldn't give a damn about what's gonna happen after they're gone. Noone is planning for the future of the world. Not enough people who matter are noticing what's going wrong with the world.

[edit on 4-2-2009 by Lannock]

Perhaps new souls are not created perhaps they just form *grow* if there isn't an old soul "taking the helm" so to speak.

Oh and find the demonization of the word faith kind of silly. Considering you have to have faith in the fact your sources of information aren't lying to you or have gotten it wrong themselves. In whatever case, be it religion or science or sportscasting.
Just a random thought.
]

[edit on 4-2-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

If the linear nature of time doesn't really exist - and every moment is one moment - then it makes more sense to me that we are all one soul experiencing simultaneous 'realities'.

The problem with giving the human soul a date of creation vs. the body's biological shell is that we have no way of knowing whether or not we have something special that other creatures in the animal kingdom do not.

Creatures in the animal kingdom pretty much all have the ability to communicate in one form or another. The complexity of that communication depends on the animal you are talking about too.. But that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with brain size vs. body mass or anything like that. Animals have simply evolved in different sizes and shapes and because of that evolution they communicate in a myriad of complex ways. Communication is very important to survival, so it could be said that a certain level of intelligence is required for some species to live longer than others (natural selection) while retaining some kind of conscious sense of self-preservation.

Whales, dolphins, and elephants are just some examples of species that not only communicate extremely well but also display emotions and have extremely complex social structures. I would argue that in order for such a creature to display emotions and active decision making other than that required for self-preservation is evidence of some kind of consciousness (soul perhaps) that is capable of observing the world and responding to it with decision-making and emotional responses to other members of the group and/or itself.

In some cases it even seems that these emotional responses are simply there.. What I mean is that it seems alot like these emotions are not meant necessarily for communication but are there because there is some kind of consciousness and/or soul with in that animal consciously deciding to feel happy, sad, frustrated, or scared depending on what's going on in the surrounding environment. We obviously don't really know if whales, for example, have souls.. But a case could be made that all living things have some kind of lifeforce or energy within that is something other than what exists in the physical plane of existence.

All biological life on this planet relies on extremely complex electrical impulses in order for the brain to send and recieve information to and from the rest of the body. We know that human brain potential is mostly dormant for whatever reason. Therefore, one could also possibly argue that if intelligence/consciousness in human beings is anything like that of the rest of the animal kingdom (from which we supposedly evolved from in the first place) then not only is there a soul in humans but a soul in all animals..

Also, if you consider the timeline of creatures on this planet up until the time humans evolved from apes/monkeys into intelligent tool-makers and hunter/gatherers, you would see that it is much more statistically likely that something resembling a soul existed long before we came on the scene too.

The logical questions to then ask are:

Does the human soul exist because life evolved to a specific level of consciousness?

or

Does the human soul exist because it always has existed in the living creatures we supposedly evolved from in the first place? And, if so, does that mean that all living things on this planet have a soul or something resembling a soul that is not dependant on any form of consciousness to exist?

And even If you consider consciousness as a pre-requisite for "the soul" then does that not still include a huge portion of the animal kingdom anyway? These are all interesting things to contemplate.

-ChriS

[edit on 4-2-2009 by BlasteR]

reply to post by Cythraul


I do know that we have had many lifetimes, there are new souls and old souls! , there is one thing you forgot to mention when we re enter we are pure. and carry all knowledge. And I beleave its the Dark entites that enter our world that is causing all this in our world. The light sorce against the dark.

I think there is a human collective consciousness that every soul is unaware of but learns from it. Life isn't a solitary journey.

- interesting - _javascript:icon('')

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Oh and by the way: If you're considerations are fairly correct, the world is not that "sick" afterall. Its just a bit of a Kindergarden.

You mean we're passed the playpen stage and are allowed to play outside now? When'd this happen?