The bible – god’s word or mans?

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Oolon

 

it's saying mind over matter. power of positive thinking. look at it this way:

the book is a historical account of the ancient past that is corroborated by many other non-biblical yet similarly ancient texts. the real problem here is that science has pitched out some 4000 years of written ancient history because the roman catholic clergy said things about it that were not true. like, there's no way to prove the creation of the planets/stars occured immediately before the creation of life. heck it doesn't even mention the creation of the angels in the opening of Genesis, who preceeded human beings by...well, who knows how many years. anyway, once they realized the RCC's interpretation of the bible and subsequent scientific applications (earth center of universe, etc) were incorrect, they pitched the entire thing out! and not long after, they pitched out all the other ancient texts as well, including the ancient greek texts, the hindu, chinese, roman and egyptian texts!

they ruled our ancestors delusional, drug users who only wrote in metaphor!

sigh. thousands of years of history, just whoosh, into the trash can.

thank you for the reply. I have often wonder, even when I was Christian, does the Catholic church have a lot of info hidden in their Vatican???? Stuff that would blow the socks of not only Christians but Catholics too? Isn't it about the time of the dark ages that things were really hidden, destroyed, and ignorance put in place of reason, fact and science?

hehehe, Control!

You said there were mistakes in the bible. My explanation to you, proposes that they are not errors, but merely truths that have yet to be realized.

And how exactly are these truths meant to be realized? The bible says many things that are literal mistakes - whales are fish, don't eat rabbits etc - are these really truths that just haven't been realized yet???

“There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.”

You might as well have said bing bam boom - stop speaking in riddles and tell me straight what you mean. Otherwise your just messing around with me and i don't have time for that.

If you’ve ever attempted to solve a Rubik cube you’d know that after you mix it up, it seems all but hopeless to correct. Every face you attempt to solve scrambles one or more of the other 6 faces. But once you employ your insight, you’re able to visualize the cubes’ dimensions and solve the puzzle. Instead of exclaiming the cube is impossible or that Rubik must have made a mistake when he made it; why not try bending your perception a little?

Ok now i get you. You're saying the bible has no mistakes, i just don't see the bible as you do so what i see as mistakes are not mistakes to you. Well i'm sorry but it doesn't matter how you look at it, there are mistakes in it - contradictions in verses, claims of how the world works that science has disproved, rediclus rules like not being allowed to wear linen and wool together. it goes on etc.

These are mistakes - this is that ind of proof needed to show the bible is not the word of god in any sense because of the mistakes a book inspired by god on any level simply wouldn't have - period.

[edit on 6-2-2009 by andre18]

reply to post by Oolon


take my word for it, you don't want to know my opinion on that
let's just suffice it to say, i hope someone there had the good sense to save duplicates of the data from the library at alexandria.

Originally posted by Oolon
I have often wonder, even when I was Christian, does the Catholic church have a lot of info hidden in their Vatican???? Stuff that would blow the socks of not only Christians but Catholics too? Isn't it about the time of the dark ages that things were really hidden, destroyed, and ignorance put in place of reason, fact and science?

hehehe, Control!

you dont need a hidden archive to discover what they have been hiding. just read the bible.

specifically with respects to hellfire, immortality of the soul,and the trinity just to cite a few

Originally posted by andre18
And how exactly are these truths meant to be realized? The bible says many things that are literal mistakes - whales are fish, don't eat rabbits etc - are these really truths that just haven't been realized yet???

Whales are fish, don’t eat rabbits? What ever are you talking about? Could you cite where you’re extracting this from in context please?

Originally posted by JPhish
“There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.”

Originally posted by andre18You might as well have said bing bam boom - stop speaking in riddles and tell me straight what you mean. Otherwise your just messing around with me and i don't have time for that.

Could you at least try to interpret the quote instead of begging for me to spoon feed its' possible meanings to you?

Ok now i get you. You're saying the bible has no mistakes, i just don't see the bible as you do so what i see as mistakes are not mistakes to you.

You’re taking the Rubiks’ cube analogy too far and assuming things I have not said. I never claimed the bible had no mistakes nor did i give my personal view of it. I gave you a viable explanation for your qualms with it, nothing more.

Well i'm sorry but it doesn't matter how you look at it, there are mistakes in it -

lovely opinion you have there.

contradictions in verses, claims of how the world works that science has disproved, rediclus rules like not being allowed to wear linen and wool together. it goes on etc.

again, I have no idea of what you’re talking about, cite your material. I see an awful lot of you telling me there are mistakes and not a whole lot of you proving to me there are mistakes.

These are mistakes - this is that ind of proof needed to show the bible is not the word of god in any sense because of the mistakes a book inspired by god on any level simply wouldn't have - period.

That’s a logical fallacy. To assume that the byproduct of something flawless must be correspondingly so, is completely absurd.


[edit on 2/6/2009 by JPhish]

Wow sorry i took so long to reply - been a little busy.

because it implies that the universe had a beginning which agrees with the bible.

No not at all. Creation implies god mysteriously poofed things into existence. The big bang doesn't claim that on any level. Creation implies the supernatural created the natural - the big bang doesn't imply that in any sense. What you're saying is that because the big bang seemes to have come from nothing so god must have done it.

That's so wrong i don't know where to begin. That website is just a little misinformed - just a little. I made a mistake when i said matter is eternal - wrong use of the word, energy is eternal not the universe. You are confused, to understand why you are confused you must (once you have convinced yourself I'm telling the truth) think of matter and energy as THE SAME THING. This is important to understand! I repeat. Matter and energy are the same thing! They are two sides of the same coin.

When the matter in an atom bomb seems to be destroyed in the explosion it is not! It is merely converted into energy, released from solid form. If you weighed all the particles left over from the physical material of the bomb, and you measured all the energy released by the bomb (light, heat, kinetic energy) and applied Einstein's equation to the energy, you would find a perfect balance. Nothing has been destroyed. Nothing has been created. All that has happened is some (by no means all) of the energy in the matter has been released, liberated from its solid or material state into energy.

Now, the big bang is "simply" the same process in reverse. At the moment of the big bang there was an burst of pure energy (no matter, mass, or material). We know what happens to energy under such conditions. Within 3 minutes all the matter in the universe was formed, every quark, proton, neutron, electron etc. Drink some water and a large number of the hydrogen atoms you swallow came directly from the big bang.

The point is that the existence of the matter in the Universe is explained. The mystery is where did the initial energy come from? We don't know. But as i said before even if everything we found just failed and never gave us an answer - that doesn't mean that 'god did it' ever becomes viable. 'God did it' is a hypothesis on it's own that requires evidentiary support. In many ways it is the only mystery (though I'm exaggerating I admit - we still don't know why the laws themselves are as they are).

So, in summary, matter and energy cannot be destroyed, but, they can be converted from one to the other, and, sometimes, back again. When you eat pasta (or anything else) complex chemical reactions "simply" convert a tiny amount of the matter in the pasta into the energy your body uses to function.

Hope I haven't confused you.

so which is it? if the universe is eternal, then it always existed. but then you deny saying that the universe always existed. your not making sense

No what i meant, is that you said the universe and everything in it has always existed, i meant to say the universe has always existed in a different form as energy but everything in it - mass, material etc weren't. That's why i underlined 'and.' But then i realized i was being misleading. The universe is not eternal because it is running down - energy is eternal.

[edit on 6-2-2009 by andre18]

Originally posted by andre18
Leviticus 20:13

“If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”

Who the hell are you to judge? I was BORN this way!! I can't help it!!!

Humans wrote the bible without any influence from god because there is no god. We pray and say ‘I’m willing god, I’ll do what yo want me to do’ but you see the problem is that then there’s a gap, there isn’t actually any god talking back to us, so humans fill that gap with what we feel is god’s judgement. That’s exactly how every single holy book has been written.


Oh man, this really excites me.

This is the perfect post.

[edit on 6/2/2009 by Thistled]

[edit on 6/2/2009 by Thistled]

Whales are fish, don’t eat rabbits? What ever are you talking about? Could you cite where you’re extracting this from in context please?

Whales apparently are fish, Jonah 1:17 Mathew 12:40

Leviticus 5 "The cherogrillus which cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof, is unclean." - it really depends what bible you're referencing from, it could be rock badgers, coney etc

While i was at it i found some more proof no god could have inspired this book. Leviticus Chapter 20 Verse 2

"Tell the Israelites: Anyone, whether an Israelite or an alien residing in Israel, who gives any of his offspring to Molech shall be put to death. Let his fellow citizens stone him."

Leviticus Chapter 20 Verse 9

"Anyone who curses his father or mother shall be put to death; since he has cursed his father or mother, he has forfeited his life. "

Leviticus Chapter 20 Verse 10

"If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death. "

Leviticus Chapter 20 Verse 11

"If a man disgraces his father by lying with his father's wife, both the man and his stepmother shall be put to death; they have forfeited their lives."

Leviticus Chapter 20 Verse 12

"If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall be put to death; since they have committed an abhorrent deed, they have forfeited their lives. "

Leviticus Chapter 20 Verse 13

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives. "

Leviticus Chapter 20 Verse 14

"If a man marries a woman and her mother also, the man and the two women as well shall be burned to death for their shameful conduct, so that such shamefulness may not be found among you."

Leviticus Chapter 20 Verse 15

"If a man has carnal relations with an animal, the man shall be put to death, and the animal shall be slain. "

Leviticus Chapter 20 Verse 16

If a woman goes up to any animal to mate with it, the woman and the animal shall be slain; let them both be put to death; their lives are forfeit.

Yep, truly god inspiring words

Could you at least try to interpret the quote instead of begging for me to spoon feed its' possible meanings to you?

Wait, so i have to actually interpret your quotes for you instead of you just explaining it in normal terms

You’re taking the Rubiks’ cube analogy too far and assuming things I have not said.

Well then bloody hell speak properly and clarify what you're saying in the first place so i don't assume things you're not saying.

What is it my fault i don't understand you're gibberish analogy that only you can understand and when someone tries to make sense of you say they've taken it out of context

I never claimed the bible had no mistakes nor did i give my personal view of it.

Yes you did, you said those mistakes are just truths that haven't been releazed yet.

I have no idea of what you’re talking about, cite your material.

Deuteronomy 22:11

"You shall not wear a material mixed of wool and linen together.

That’s a logical fallacy. To assume that the byproduct of something flawless must be correspondingly so, is completely absurd.

Completely not absurd, if god is all powerful, all knowing and all loving - he would not inspire man to write a book filled with the content that it does. That is logic.

[edit on 6-2-2009 by andre18]

reply to post by andre18


I would like to give another point of view, one from a purely objective analysis. If you read the Old Testament and look at the ability of Yahweh to predict what will happen to the nation of Israel and other kingdoms and peoples, from the very beginning, in fact stating repeatedly that He would tell the end from the beginning, you realize that if you were to profile this indivduals ability, his accuracy rate is nothing less than phenomenal. That said, most people do not understand the history of the ancient earth, prior to Sumeria, and who Yahweh might have come from and how certain objectives had been thwarted by the Annunaki.
Whether you like it or not, just because you want something other to believe in, the fact remains that this individuals track record on making happen the very things that he said he would and that nothing will stop Him, indeed nothing can seem to stop Him, I would pause before I entirely dismissed the ability of this individual.
The objective of the Ancients of which Yahweh was one, if not, The One, whose origins may have started somewhere at the beginning of the Big Bang, have been to bring creations to a slow and realized evolution, so by the time a civilization got to where it could produce nuclear weapons, it would have developed enough to where they would not need them.
Just because we want a God that is all lovey and dovey does not mean we will get one, someone who has been around for 13 billion years has a different perspective and more than likely has ownership issues.
As far as I have been able to detect, this planet was seeded by the time the Annunaki showed up, and it was they who created the race of Adam to be slaves to mine gold in a place called E.Din. They knew about the Ancients and gave them the symbol of the serpent, and who was it that tried to show the race of Adam the difference between good and evil? DID YOU NEVER WONDER WHY? Very few people have read enough to connect the dots and realize the possible bigger picture. You could start with Sitchins work on Sumerian text, and then read the Bible(Old Testament) and specifically look up the Anakim,(the Annunaki) who were the Nefilim and Giants, and how Yahweh took Moses and Aaron to do battle with them to retake the land. This war to take back the planet and how it will be retaken by the Ancients is clearly indicated by the destruction of the planet by an earth crust displacement, wiping most of mankind off the earth and restoring the cosmic order of the Ancients once again. The theme is quite prevelant throughout the Bible and numerous other ancient text. Like it or not, you are dealing with a Being who can speak things into existence, who is holographically interactive and in control of the hologram and has said so from the beginning of recorded time. Railing against it does no good, you might want to try and understand the reality of it.

It matters a lot, that people are pulled away from the Bible. Even the Catholic church and Christian sects are weining people away from the true word of God. Why? Because the New Age Movement, a new name exactly for Nazism, is taking its place, bringing with it the Occult version of Christianity. This leads the way to the New World Order based on a Lucierian theology to everyones' horror when the truth be known. The Masons, Vatican and Zionist jews are leading it. Its not a jewish conspiracy or Masonic conspiracy, or a vatican conspiracy...yet its all three. The Luciferian Illuminati hides like rats under the three I just named. Trust in Jesus that they will, 100% sure won't last very long.

reply to post by tgambill


the bible is a good instruction manual, a fascinating history book, and the prophecies are rivetting. however, jesus is the word of god. not that book

It is the word of God, but so is the Koran, and many other things.

Truth is the word of God, if it is true then it is because God spoke it into being.

The bible like all holy books was not written for the believer but the unbeliever.

Holy things are received by revelation, specifically word of knowledge, word of wisdom, and discerning of spirits.

Since spiritual means are employed in the process of making a holy work, spiritual means must be utilized to gain any real understanding from it.

You can't know the truth by your five senses alone, it is because of the physical limitation of our perceptions.

Spiritual things can not be analyzed they can only be ascertained.

---------

Today's installment from: WIG'N
"What Is God Network" WIG'N out on the things of God.

WIG'N 22: Pretending
Link: /d9b7cw

---------------

reply to post by newday


i agree with everything you said except the part about it being the word of God. it isn't the word of God. the word of God is Jesus. if it were the word of God, early christians woulda been up a creek without a paddle since they didn't have bibles back then. You are right, it is all about the Holy Spirit indwelling. putting emphasis purely on jesus in the book, lessens our dependence on the spirit of God and instead of finding Jesus within, we look for him without.

reply to post by undo


Jesus didn't exist. He was an NWO plot in it's early days. When the romans were in charge, they made up jesus to get people to follow them instead of the jews.... AND IT WORKED. Now, people love jesus, and hence love the NWO.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!

reply to post by Hellish-D


i doubt it since he doesn't represent anything they stood for. rome was a descendant of the grecian empire, which was a pederastic society. rome was thoroughly pagan. why would they give up all that, deliberately? i think what happened was, so many citizens were hopping on the jesus bandwagon, that the roman emperor feared he would lose control. he usurped it, so he could control it. he then put any available texts under lock and key, and made his own spokesperson as a representative of jesus (the pope). then he compiled the writings into an approved version of the texts and made it unavailable to anyone but the highest ranking clergy. after that, he proceeded to change the times and the seasons of the calendar, added laws and codes that were not anywhere in jesus' teachings, and enforced the entire thing by papal decree.

reply to post by undo


The NWO doesn't think in short term, They think in long term. A pagan society would never last properly under a totalitarian regime. That's why Caesar made himself a god, so that people would worship him. But after he dies, people wouldn't listen to him anymore.

If they could incorporate one god, and make that god's symbol the representation of their own violent oppression (cross) then they could take on the role of representing that one god, and maintaining their rule indefinitely. Of course it would take a while for their god to get enough momentum to officially switch the state religion, but it happened, and at that point they were all powerful, before and after death.

reply to post by Hellish-D


you should read the rest of the story. for example, the concept of a new world order being bad, came out of the new testament and old testament prophecies. the list of empires in history, starting in daniel and ending in revelation. are all about one world governments. daniel's stopped at number 5 (holy roman), and revelation picks it up at 5 and continues to 8. the rest are repeats of 5 in various disguises (was, is not, yet is). the world is still controlled by the vatican. it follows the problem, solution paradigm. communism is vatican created, for example. so is fascism. they are the most powerful organization on the planet, bar none.



[edit on 7-2-2009 by undo]

reply to post by undo


So the Romans, the people who invented Christ, are now the worlds most powerful people.

That's what I said!

reply to post by Hellish-D


they didn't invent christ. read the prophecies. seriously. you're only getting half the picture. they didn't even follow christ's teachings. they hid them away, so they could usurp them and made papal decree the new teachings. in essence, the papacy fits the prophecies regarding the end time anti-christ to a T.

the black pope (the guy no one knows exists)
www.remnantofgod.org...