Population Control "A License to Breed"

its sad, really sad

and honestly just quickly browsing this thread since my post here

this thread itself makes for a good argument as to why we should find a way to do the "license to breed" idea

like i did say earlier, at the moment i dont think anyone has the right idea for how to accomplish such a thing properly, but i do think we should find a way



but one thing that caught my eye was the movie idiocracy being brought up

that movie truly scares the hell out of me

in everything that makes that movie you can see part of our society today truly leaning towards that type of future

we make joke about how that may be a prophecy, well the sad part, it truly is

with the ways we're raising kids today, with the values our society is implementing in them, we are not far off from that type of future

ignorance constantly runs rampant, not only ignorance but close-mindedness

everyone wants to fight to be right, but we cant all be, because we all have different views, someone is wrong

we are not doing our jobs as members of society

i am currently in rochester ny

recently a police officer along with 4 others were responding to a routine drug call, upon leaving the scene one of the police officers was shot in the back of the head by a unknown shooter

that shooter turned out to be 14 year old tyquan rivera

now all we see on the news and in the paper here in this area is the conflict between the people who say, authorities schools parents organizations all did the best they can to help this child and there was nothing else they can do
this view goes against those saying that all those people failed tyquan rivera by raising him the wrong way, and by creating a society around him that has forced him to this path

he dropped out of school in the 6th grade, shot a cop in the head the other day, and even if convicted will be back on the streets within 10 years, he will be 24 and back out doing exactly what he was doing before he shot the cop, selling drugs living the street life and probably killing more people

around earth, there are millions more just like tyquan, honestly though, the majority of them make him look like a little angel

there are people in our society that have been failed, and will now keep this cycle going until society does whats necessary to remedy the problem

if there are areas that are corrupt and overwhelmed, we must do what is necessary to purge the areas of that evil, as there are plenty of people who are law abiding moral people who will not raise their children to shoot aks and cut off limbs of others by the age of 12

there are many parts of this world, which are overwhelmed with corruption and violence where the young have very little to no chance of every seeing a better life, a good life

for us to simply sit back and allow this to keep happening makes us just as bad as the evil causing this problem as we are the evil allowing it

when adults have failed the children and leave the children no option other then to kill murder rape and pillage, we might have to take radical steps to deal with a radical situation

we as humans are all life, there are those of us who wish to have peace for all of life, there are those who are bent on greed and fighting no matter what, there are areas where there will never be peace if things continue the way that they are

people speak of genocide and that is what i am advocating, but that is not true yet maybe in a way it is, it depends on what our definition of genocide is

is genocide the murder of all participating in a way of life?
is genocide the murder of all of one type of culture?
is genocide like the ww2 jewish genocide where all jews were killed?

if the 1st choice is genocide then yes, maybe we should use "genocide" as a tool to better this world

as in my opinion we should rid this world of all of those who wish to only kill, who will not find a way to live in peace with one another, we should rid the areas of africa of those who only want to wage war because there are those who have wider or thinner noses then themselves, we should rid the world of those who feel we should kill and wage war over religious based ideas, we should rid the world of those types of extremists

we should not kill over the color of skin or any physical attribute, we should not fight and kill over what magical mystery man in the sky we like to worship

but that is whats going on, that is what these children are being forced into, the ways of life that are being forced upon them

maybe we should tell everyone to put down your arms and be peaceful or face not being able to breed

then only the peaceful will breed and the war faring will die off

but what i say is all maybes, as i dont know the best way, and neither does anyone else here according to the replies

we all just have basic desires to see our world made better yet ignorance stands in all of our ways

if theres a way to end these cycles we should look for it we should consider our options, because right now, if current trends continue, we will face a future that is truly filled with idiocracy and run by idiocracy and if its "genocide" that is needed to make sure we dont face that future, then maybe civilization should find the best way to do that, and if i am one of those that need to not breed because if i do i will breed idiocracy, then please, take away my right to breed, as i am not selfish enough to keep that "right" if it will lead to the destruction of this earth



its a rant, but thats what happens when discussing idiocracy.... how intelligently can you speak when speaking of idiots?

the idiots i speak of are the ones who have failed the children who continue the cycle that we are witnessing, and if stopping them from breeding will work, and its considered genocide, then i guess hitler wasnt crazy, he was just taking out the wrong people, or what he was doing wasnt genocide and was just monstrous

[edit on 5-2-2009 by Dramey]

reply to post by Avarus


As far as the welfare side of this...at least here in the U.S., it is kind of a ghetto status symbol to have several children...gathering more welfare. Hell, there are those on welfare that contract with the Dept. of Human Services(what a joke), Child Services(ditto), etc. to foster children...on top of their 6-10 children, to get the gov. stipends, and can claim them on taxes...disgusting really. The quality of care, generally, is far below a fair standard.

I have 4 children, and can/do support them well...I'm not independently wealthy or anything, but my children want not. My wife has made the statement that she would like to have another, but after WE discussed the parameters of another child, WE decided it is not economically feasible...for us.

I don't think that applying a Procreation License, by whatever name, is any kind of answer. What needs to happen is some responsibility/accountability for the children that the country/world has now, not trying to determine the best way to dictate what should be put in place for the ones coming...i.e., if you have a child/children now, and don't give them a good measurable quality of life...you are to be punished up to imprisonment, and/or death! If you knew that you could be imprisoned for fathering a child then splitting on the mother/child, would you continue to be promiscuous? Same goes for the women. If you could possibly be executed for the same thing, or repeat offending, how long til the issue resolves itself do you think?...

It is interesting that a few people on this thread have taken this topic as a personal assault, instead of a hypothetical discussion that it is. The OP was not, and is not condoning sterilization, nor is he asking for, or condoning the complete abstainment of the entire population of the planet from ever breeding. I suppose some people are incapable of a little exercise in imagination. Bottom line is, there are far too many people whom have far too little responsibility. We all know people that have children, that shouldn't have them. For whatever reason. Usually do to incompetence or outright inability to care for a child, emotionally or otherwise. People that literally don't care whether their kids live or die, it is ME first and KIDS second with these people. I know people that have kids exactly for the reason some posters have stated. Their children aren't their offspring, they're more like a commodity, more like cattle. I do agree with some that to implement regulations on such individuals would be difficult, and indeed, who would decide what is concidered to be 'fit'? That, my friends, is the whole purpose of this discussion, not personal attacks on someone who is just looking for answers. I, for one, don't have any answers. I do agree that there are irresponsible people becoming irresponsible parents, but I don't know how to fix the issue.

Chrono

I'm not for this as with all things this would eventually turn into a worse idea with a group sticking it's nose up and declaring someone unfit to be a parent because of this or that and the list narrowing.

Although I have seen very real abuses to the system by people I've met as in a far removed cousin that has 9 children. Beyond the cost of caring for the children there really isn't any ability to really spend time nurturing that many children born so close together. Sure it might have been a little different though if it were like say the 1800's when an extended family had the time to dote on the children.

On the other hand I know people that so spoiled their small amount of children and never bothered to teach them compassion or respect for others. Their parents follow behind them trying to appease them while paying all the legal bills trying to keep them from going to prison.

Several times I've thought about having children of my own but, I've settled recently that I will play the part of the extended family and dote on niece and nephew as I partially raised them myself. In a way I already have children. Standing up at their graduations, attending wedding etc is already a done deal.

I also get babysitting duty Friday from a close friend's children. So, in effect getting all the parenting I need.


The answer is no to forced birth control etc. Who knows with the uncertain times we may end up going back to extended families which in some ways I think is better.


[edit on 5/2/2009 by toochaos4u]

reply to post by daddymax


I like that....
throw the father in jail.....execute the women....

ya, it's kind of the same mentality as what used to be, pat the young stud on the back for a job well done while shunning the poor girl, shipping her off to some far away land so she doesn't shame her family...
ya....hey, maybe we should all become muslims, then mom and dad can just kill the girl in her sleep?

meanwhile, does health insurance or medicaid even pay for a person to have their tubes tied yet, what about birth control? just wondering, they sure didn't when I was getting pregnant with my three.
my coworker at work asked me this, after she found out she was pregnant with her third.....(single mom), and I didn't know. she wants her tubes tied, but well, she was one of two our company laid off when the work fizzled so I am pretty sure now, she isn't gonna be able to pay for it...

so, which is better? provide federal money to provide that birth control for these women, or well, letting just keep getting pregnant....
then we can execute them!!

Since there is a negative correlation between IQ and fertility and I guess most people would agree when I say that people with about the same intelligance-level tend to breed with each other- what is currently happening is that we're breeding a large base of a new sub-human species of slave workers. Or just continuing what has been going on since the natural selection was made obsolete.

Don't really know about birth controll/eugenics - after all who is going to clean up your #?

Originally posted by Chronogoblin
It is interesting that a few people on this thread have taken this topic as a personal assault, instead of a hypothetical discussion that it is. The OP was not, and is not condoning sterilization, nor is he asking for, or condoning the complete abstainment of the entire population of the planet from ever breeding. I suppose some people are incapable of a little exercise in imagination. Bottom line is, there are far too many people whom have far too little responsibility. We all know people that have children, that shouldn't have them. For whatever reason. Usually do to incompetence or outright inability to care for a child, emotionally or otherwise. People that literally don't care whether their kids live or die, it is ME first and KIDS second with these people. I know people that have kids exactly for the reason some posters have stated. Their children aren't their offspring, they're more like a commodity, more like cattle. I do agree with some that to implement regulations on such individuals would be difficult, and indeed, who would decide what is concidered to be 'fit'? That, my friends, is the whole purpose of this discussion, not personal attacks on someone who is just looking for answers. I, for one, don't have any answers. I do agree that there are irresponsible people becoming irresponsible parents, but I don't know how to fix the issue.

Chrono

Star for you,

I beleive there does need to be some sort of measure taken to limit reproduction and their is a simple answer., Dont provide for peoples children after their first. If you cant afford a child dont bring one into the world and expect the tax payer to raise your child! if you do and you cant afford it HARD #! rice it is! maybe make a parant have to pay 10,000 before a child is brought into the world. As a sub for when they do hit hard times. Funny how the easiest way to control a population is again MONEY!

Originally posted by theflashor

I beleive there does need to be some sort of measure taken to limit reproduction and their is a simple answer., Dont provide for peoples children after their first. If you cant afford a child dont bring one into the world and expect the tax payer to raise your child! if you do and you cant afford it HARD #! rice it is! maybe make a parant have to pay 10,000 before a child is brought into the world. As a sub for when they do hit hard times. Funny how the easiest way to control a population is again MONEY!

Sorry - but I will not make the children victims - because their parents are irresponsible.

There needs to be something in place - before there are any children.

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by daddymax

 

I like that....
throw the father in jail.....execute the women....

ya, it's kind of the same mentality as what used to be, pat the young stud on the back for a job well done while shunning the poor girl, shipping her off to some far away land so she doesn't shame her family...
ya....hey, maybe we should all become muslims, then mom and dad can just kill the girl in her sleep?

meanwhile, does health insurance or medicaid even pay for a person to have their tubes tied yet, what about birth control? just wondering, they sure didn't when I was getting pregnant with my three.

my coworker at work asked me this, after she found out she was pregnant with her third.....(single mom), and I didn't know. she wants her tubes tied, but well, she was one of two our company laid off when the work fizzled so I am pretty sure now, she isn't gonna be able to pay for it...

so, which is better? provide federal money to provide that birth control for these women, or well, letting just keep getting pregnant....
then we can execute them!!

Why are we only talking about women being responsible for getting pregnant.

I want to know if the government provides free vasectomies - - like they do abortions and birth control pills.

reply to post by Dramey


Let me get this straight. You are saying that:

1. It is the fault of society that some kid shot a cop in the back?
2. We should lay down our arms, tell others that want war to do the same, and sterilize those that won't comply?
3. Hitler might have had the right idea, but the wrong targets?

Is that correct?

Alright, then, let me address those three points.

1. It is the fault of the punk kid with the gun that he chose to shoot someone. Blaming society is one of the bigest reasons the situation has gotten as bad as it is now.
2. Let me know how that works out for you. I suspect the ones that want to fight will prevail.
3. NO. Again, NO. If you really don't see the error, I can't help you here.

I see a lot of people here getting carried away with personal fears.
Obviously you are not the target.
You are intelligent, literate and make enough money to own a computer and be on the internet. You surely know if you can support children and however many.

The definition of retarded should be obvious also.
And Ahab, those recessive genes are the ones that ambush any prospective parent.
Some of the dominant traits run from barely noticeable to really bad.

As to all the science of fixing things up, well when is that going to be in full production?
As to the repairable defects - great repair them, but then stop it right there. The defective should not pass their defects onto their children.
If they are intelligent responsible people they would not want to.
They do however need to be told that their problems are hereditary.
As it is doctors have been silent in the matter.

Why exactly would anyone want to pass physical or mental defects onto their children? Don't you think this is a form of child abuse?

BTW schizophrenia is heritable. It too can be present in degrees, and may not be noticable until the person has already had children.

Who decides?
Defects are or should be listed on your medical record, which would cover those that cannot be readily seen.
As to the ones that can be seen - try to deny them.

What is wrong with selective breeding or even the upcoming "designer baby" program being used to produce a "super race"? Seems like a desireable thing to me.

No thank you, I'd rather have as many kids as I want and screw you if you tell me otherwise.


When this is implemented, the masses of angry people having kids as protest will make me laugh, because that's really the only protest that will do anything, and it will be quite amusing to see the government not be able to do anything about it.

I really wanted to post this video ( on topic! ) :

Google Video Link

actually it isn't related.

Idiocracy is not possible. Statistically, every group of large children must create some kind of successful trait. This is because the parents had to have some positive trait within in order to have arrived there and survived.

Also, evolution like that can;t happen in 500 years... unless you're one of those creationist types who thinks God will come down and make people stupid or something.