My Evidence for Evolution..

I believe in evolution. For those of you who don't, I guess I have understood for awhile your ability to deny it. However, I have a few pieces of evidence, that in my opinion, are undeniable.

Firstly, I will speak about birds. The earliest known bird in existence is Archaeopteryx. This bird lived between 150 and 200 million years ago. This is a relatively young class of animal. Now, outside of providing a synopsis about how these creatures evolved, I am not entirely well-read on the subject, but hear me out because I think its quite plausible.

A dinosaur.. Lets imagine this dinosaur is around human height. This dinosaur is a biped (theropod) and lives off of foliage in its area. Things are going great for little Marcus (so I named my dinosaur, get over it), until an enormous weather catastrophe destroys everything around him and he needs to find a new place to call home. Marcus packs his bags, grabs the kids and wife, and heads west. A few hundred miles down the road marcus sees trees, exciting! Food!

Upon coming closer to the trees, Marcus is devastated to see that the leaves are growing pretty far up. So far that his jump is barely able to reach even a few. Marcus jumps and jumps and gets a few leaves now and then, but his family quickly dies off because Marcus is a dumb dinosaur and doesn't realize that he should be knocking a few down to his kids. So the family is dead, and marcus is learning to jump a lot more efficiently by swinging his arms up as he takes off. He sees that other animals from his species are moving into the area, but most of them die off too. The only ones that live are the ones with serious ups and long necks. They mate and have kids with crazy ups and long legs. There are enough dinos now that the trees are littering the ground with greens from the amount of Marcus's jumping around. The kids have food now. Awesome. They continue to live like this for thousands (even millions) of years.

Well now we have the equivalent of the dinosaur NBA. All these guys have long arms, necks, and insane ability to jump. Their arms are getting longer because they swing them up to gain momentum, and now they are high up enough in the air that they are flapping to get even another kick up. During hard times, a bunch of them die off because they are unable to jump as high or just aren't as good at the technique.

More years pass. All the Marci (I've created a new pluralization for the name Marcus) are doing alright, but they realize they aren't so much jumping as flying to get to the same leaves. Hmmm? Their arms are long and covered in extended hairs that offer lift. They are this way because when hard times come, the ones with the extensive arm hairs survive. Now you perpetuate this another few million years, and you have feathers. They don't need to jump as high, so they don't need to be as tall. So they become shorter. Eventually they have no need to jump at all, so their legs become frail and crappy. Holy hell! Now they live in the trees instead of trying to jump to them!

Ok, here's the part that'll really get you.. Look out in your back yard...

I'll wait..

Did you see Marcus sitting on your bird feeder? You did.

Look at the flightless birds of the world. Absolute proof (again, my opinion).

The Emu and Ostrich. They have no need for flight! Why? Their long necks. They eventually grew to a stature where they didn't need the wings anymore. Its all about the food available in a place.

The penguin. They don't even have wings so much as flippers. I bet if we wait another 20 million years, those little buggers will be more fish than bird. Why? The food where they live.

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Moving on. The modern day wolf, millions of years ago. A certain pack of wolves lives on a beach because the mainland has been decimated, so there's no food there. They find that there are little creatures in the sea, with hard shells, that if they crack, have yummy treats inside. They spend years wading the shallow water to get these treats and are living the good life.

One of them, Clarence, is born with a funny nose. His nose is upturned and he has large nostrils that point up in the air almost. Its a deformity, but as Clarence grows up, everyone becomes envious with the amount of food he can catch. Why? Because he can dunk his jaw in and still breath above the water. He mates with all the ladies of the beach, which upsets the rest of the guys, but hey, you can't hate on a playa. He can provide, and chicks dig that.

Clarence has a bunch of babies, all with upturned noses.

Over the next few million years, the Clari (yes I did it again) all are living prosperous on the beach. However, some kids have even more deformed noses, growing further up their snouts. These guys are great hunters. The nostrils go so far up their snouts at one point, that they get as far as their eyes. Well, a nostril isn't going to win in evolution over an eye, so Clarence's nostrils conjoin and rest in the center of the eyes. As the dogs get better at swimming, and experience deeper waters, and more food, their nostrils are eventually at the top of their heads, like a natural snorkle.

Their webbed feet are now fins. They lost their fur cause salt water causes dry skin (I don't know). Now they are mammals that live in the water! Crazy!

Ok, here's the part where I get you... Go to Seaworld....

I'll wait....

Did you see Clarence in the big tub doing tricks for mackerel?? Yes you did, he's a dolphin now! He'd tell you if he could do anything but yip..

Mans best friend. The smartest little furry guy you know. You think there might be a connection between him and the smartest sea creature in the world? Think about it.

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How did mammals get to the sea? Whales, dolphins, etc?

How did it happen that a species took to the air?

Why does the platypus exist?

Are these animals cruelly dangled in front of our face to test our faith?? No, they are built for their environment, and if they aren't nature will slowly change them.

Its simple people. I honestly think people who don't believe in evolution can't fathom the breadth of time that in which these changes occur. Do you have an itch on your elbow? Does your child too? Well it could be a genetic problem that kills a lot of people 100 million years from now, and nature will take care of it.

So have humans existed for 10,000 years.. No, we've proven that isn't true. Has the earth existed for that long? Impossible, its been around longer than we can imagine.. So right there is a tiny glitch the gears of your thought. I'm not saying Jesus doesn't exists (Although I did state it in another one of my threads) but the book might be off... By a lot.

Science will help us find out many things about ourselves. It doesn't nullify our religions, it only helps us understand who we are. Even with a God, we are not even a mere second in time. We are less than a blip. Can you deal with that emotionally? That's actually why I think religion exists, but I digress.

Again, these are opinions. I think the opinions are founded, but feel free to argue. I have more info, but I'm one of those lazy guys who are saving it for the argument part so I have something to say..

Peace and love
Jace

OR..

genetic engineers created them with built-in dynamic adaptability within their genome to ensure non-failure when faced with changing environments.


the theory of dynamic adaptation or ... "evolution" can go both ways.. meaning..

monkeys could very well have "de-volved" from a more human type of creature.

any invented lifeform we create in the future will fail and go extinct if there is no dynamic adaptation built into the code.
and if competing companies are the ones creating these creatures in the future (which they will be) ... then they had better be clever enough to include dynamic adaptation into their lifeforms.. because if hey don't.. their creatures population will deteriorate, and a competing company will triumph over them in the market.

it's all about the shareholder's dividends baby.

i'm not kidding either.

give that a thought.
it's not always this idiotic discussion of "everything was created either by random molecules finally finding order" .. vs some huge invisible hand of a giant invisible "person"...

-

Prevenge, (sorry reply isnt workin')

Exactly. Perfect response. Anything is possible. We are so flawed mentally. Anything that defies our train of thought must be wrong.

Your ending is as likely as mine. We will never know..... Or will we?

reply to post by SantaClaus


Just saw a program yesterday on National Geographic that explained how a land mammal eventually became the whale that we know today.

Every animal is affected by the environment that it lives in. The urge to survive and get better is a primal one and that leads to evolution, as one adapts to the environment.

Any thoughts on how evolution is progressing in humans? How will man look like in 20000 years? I feel he will lose the hair on his body, hands will become shorter and he will have only one eye just above the nose!

reply to post by sunny_2008ny


hard to predict 20 000 from now. I believe that our natural trend is involution, as the social system now inhibits the natural selection as known in the animal world. However, we still have a chance : genetical engineering , and artifficial selection. This can accelerate our evolution in an unseen way. Good luck to us !

Originally posted by sunny_2008ny
reply to post by SantaClaus

 

Just saw a program yesterday on National Geographic that explained how a land mammal eventually became the whale that we know today.

Every animal is affected by the environment that it lives in. The urge to survive and get better is a primal one and that leads to evolution, as one adapts to the environment.

Any thoughts on how evolution is progressing in humans? How will man look like in 20000 years? I feel he will lose the hair on his body, hands will become shorter and he will have only one eye just above the nose!

I'm thinking our brains will become larger, as per our cranium.. I mean, in my opinion, the stereotypical grey alien is what we will look like in a few million years. Our bodies will become even more frail and our mental faculties will be exponentially improved.

Originally posted by prevenge
OR..

genetic engineers created them with built-in dynamic adaptability within their genome to ensure non-failure when faced with changing environments.

What if you discard the idea of Genetic Engineers and consider the idea that all organisms have their own innate ability to genetically engineer their own survival responses the the environment it finds itself in.

For example Dr James Bardwell's (microbiologist) experiments which show E.coli genetically engineered totally new ways to form disulphide bonds after the original mechanism to make these bonds was destroyed. Darwin's Finches can demonstrate the basic principles of this argument.

Also this can explain how organisms can so adeptly create camouflage....by computing and possibly imbibing genetic information from the environment.

In other words LIFE can accomodate itself to any environment it finds itself in.......

reply to post by SantaClaus


Great imagination! Where do you suppose it came from? How did IT evolve?

We are so flawed mentally. Anything that defies our train of thought must be wrong.

No, you just demonstrated how creative thinking works. If evolution is a reality, how and where did imagination, consciousness, and creativity, get their start and how did a template for these characteristics evolve?

I have never heard it explained through evolution/natural selection.

reply to post by SantaClaus


you did not prove evolution at all..you just made the same mistake many people make with the evolutionary THEORY..

learning to jump higher or move your arms is just adaptation..if i were a supreme being i would give my creations the ability to adapt to different situations..it makes sense

just because it would help them to be born with longer arms, necks, etc. means its going to happen? NO..that is preposterous..a want or need for something doesnt cause the body of the parent to produce an offspring with the needed traits or abilities..your whole post is nothing but creative thinking..it has no valid proof behind it at all...

this post is not meant to bash you in any way..its just that evolutionists rely more on faith than creationists do...

the degree of chance in evolution,the big bang, etc. is much much higher than that of creationism..

Originally posted by resonance
reply to post by SantaClaus

 

just because it would help them to be born with longer arms, necks, etc. means its going to happen? NO..that is preposterous..a want or need for something doesnt cause the body of the parent to produce an offspring with the needed traits or abilities..

You misread my post. I am saying that in hard times, those without those needed traits will die, leaving a small population of the animal behind. Its not a WANT, its just that certain traits will stick behind simply because the ones that have it have survived.

Any animal that has evolved has been through MAJOR catastrophes in their lineage. Most animals die off in the circumstances, but those with the proper traits will succeed in surviving, albeit with extremely small numbers. When this happens over and over again, large populations living and dying, you'll have evolution.

Its not necessarily creative as it is researched. I know I didn't offer a ton of resources, but those 2 theories are quite popular with some scientists. I offered it as my opinion, not as fact. I believe it, you don't need to, I was just sharing.

Thanks for the response!

There is no proof for the theory of evolution

whose to say a species going through hard times wont move to a different area, learn to adapt, etc...why do they have to evolve?

going through hard times does not lead to evolution..there is no evidence for evolution only similar structure..this could easily mean a common creator

if its not broke why fix it..this could easily be applied to the species on this earth..if a supreme being created everything..he would know what works and doesnt, and if similar structures help out more than one species why not do it..the fossil record is no proof of evolution..and there are no species we have seen in the process or anything of the sort...until i see hard evidence ill never be able to accept it..

also how do evolutionists explain how all matter and energy came in to being..the big bang is a ridiculous theory and requires more imagination that some religions..

reply to post by resonance


Yes, leg bones in whales, finger bones in dolphins, fossil records showing the changes of animals over time, and the recorded change of animals while under human observance does not in any way shape or form lead credence to evolution.
Evidence in our genetic structure of course, as well, doesn't prove evolution.

As for Evolution being a theory... so is gravity. When an apple falls up, let me know.

the leg bones in wales are tied to certain muscles and they have to have those

fossil records prove nothing..you cannot prove that animal even reproduced..similar looking fossils just lead to different species of the same kind

"the recorded change of animals while under human observance does not in any way shape or form lead credence to evolution"..i have never seen anything reports of people observing evolution..please show me..

again genetic and bone structure could easily lead to evidence of a common creator..like architects whose works look the same, or artists, musicians, etc.

and yes..gravity is just a theory..we cant prove it either..whose to say space isnt pushing in on us lol..

[edit on 16-2-2009 by resonance]

Originally posted by resonance
and yes..gravity is just a theory..we cant prove it either..whose to say space isnt pushing in on us lol..

Logic?

As far as learning to adapt and finding new locales to set up shop, yeah, that happens too.

I think you are looking at this far too 1 dimensionally. As long as you continue to use the "common creator" train of thought, no one can even argue with you intelligently. Not because its a good argument, but because there's nothing logical or scientific behind it. Not to say there is no God, but give me a break, you're not really using the point to your advantage.

And yes, all of this is theory.. The problem with this theory is that its lumped in with a bunch of others that aren't nearly as likely.

reply to post by resonance


Gravity is a observable occurrence that can be observed and measured and is shown to be relative to a object's mass and density. Much of our space program is based on mathematics based around how gravity works.

On whale's leg bones:
www.edwardtbabinski.us...
They are completely and utterly useless, and remnants of when whales did have legs and required a pelvis. Snakes have a similar structure.

Evolution has been observed in studies of flies, plants, and many other animals. The differences in humans today is example of micro-evolution.