It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Leaders: Our Fals Gods

page: 1
0

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 10:19 PM
link   
We dont need leaders. Most assume that people need a leader, but that is a lie. We should need no one to decide what we should do or what we should not do. We should lead ourselvs and one another. A leader will determine the quality of life for millions of people, but that is no ones right.

Do not let a leader replace the rath of God. You are God as equal and one with all life. Nothing is seperate. A leader can only exist in seperation, but seperation is an illusion that we have created. He is the unique above all others and is worshiped when we are truly all equal. I declare Anarchy! It is the only way for world peace. When we learn how to govern ourselvs and live life as life, we will need no leader. We never needed any leader. A leader is a distraction. A manipulation. An illusion. A false God. Dont be fooled. Follow your lead as one and equal.

Lucifer/evil is seperation. Seperation from God, seperation from self, seperation from truth. Seperated from reality to live in delusion. Devided as slaves

Leaders create an unequal polarity which leads to slavery

www.youtube.com...




posted on Feb, 2 2009 @ 12:29 AM
link   
reply to post by Wisen Heimer
 


I think this is a complex subject. It is not so cut and dry to say everyone is equal, which is what I want to say. Moreover, it is that all human life is weighted equally, no matter who it be. That much we can say for sure.

When one is elected to rule over others, generally it is best to pick the one most fitted to rule (Plato philosophized a lot on this and I am sure many others before and after him). Of character, the one that is best must be benevolent and free of typical human greed and hunger for malicious power. One can hunger for power, just as long as they use that power, once obtained, for "good" of all the human species.

I cannot delve any further at the moment, but overall I agree with what you are saying.

ttyl



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 12:11 AM
link   
ANARCHY! ANARCHY! ANARCHY!
I think if we all tried to awaken ourself to and as all that is than things will be a changing. Maybe I should spike the water supply with '___'.

Conscious overdrive.


[edit on 7-2-2009 by Wisen Heimer]



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 01:54 AM
link   
Well if you subscribe to Thomas Hobbes, which I do not, then life is "nasty, brutish and short" ( Leviathen) and thus out of human necessity due to our nature we must delegate to a leader of some kind. This is where our political obligation to the state is derived-simply without a leader we would revert back to self preservation and chaos.

Is this good justification for us having a leader? In my opinion 'no'. It is based on a premise that is set from the English Civil War mind of chaos and the overthrowing of a 'legitamate' ruler. Not all human nature is inherently bad and that assumption is used to legitamise a regime.

I am curious though when we throw the leaders out and go into anarchy who would direct work, defense etc? Would we not divert to a pre-state form of tribes and bands and start the chain of state formation again?

If we all had a common goal to work toward, perhaps as you suggest "goodness" or "truth", we could work united?



posted on Feb, 7 2009 @ 09:55 PM
link   
hmmm... yes that is the general view of anarchy. Everyone would huddle into groups and start killing everyone else. I dont really think that would happen because obviously we would have to take care of eachother to survive. Like durring the great depression. People didnt start senseless killing sprees because no one was there to tell them not to. They united and took care of one another because in reality if we were not slaves that is what we would be doing. Instead of stabing everyone in the back for a promotion.


Think about this... A prison is a very dangerous place to be and in there you have no rights. I think that maybe when all your freedoms are taken away the only way to get more freedom is to take it from someone else. If we were all free there really wouldnt be any reason to take someone elses freedom.

[edit on 7-2-2009 by Wisen Heimer]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 08:50 AM
link   
reply to post by Wisen Heimer
 


Actually whether we like it or not, we will always have a leader of some sorts, and no they aren't evil...if they're doing what they are supposed to do.

Our personalities would get in the way and there are those out there born to be leaders, that have that leadership quality about them (it's a GIFT from God by the way). They attract others to them like moths to a fly because of the energy they give off.

There can be different leaders for different areas, for example, in my theatre appreciation class, other than the teacher, I would be considered a leader because I'm also a classically trained actor, and I spent 4 years of my life dedicating myself and developing myself to the point where that's who I am, and I take advantage of that, and not to toot my horn, but when I speak people listen... because, maybe not because I'm an actor, but because they know what I have to say is worth paying attention to. While in my computer graphics class, I'm DEFINITELY not leader material, I don't know jack about Illustrator (that's what I'm there to learn! what a concept). I might talk out loud and ask questions out loud, but by far, the teacher still has the reigns of that carriage.


If you want to talk about false gods, look at celebrities, they pretty much get the same status of the gods of olympia. think about it, amazingly good looks, lots and lots of money, people all over the world WORSHIPPING these people, they live in modern day castles (mansions), usually away from the private eye.

If anyone is a false god it would be celebrities

[edit on 8-2-2009 by bandaidctrl]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 10:57 AM
link   
As we discover more & more about quantum mechanics, what we are finding is that we are literally creators of our own reality through our own thoughts. What you believe, manifests as your reality. If you believe in a reality where a one world fascist government is trying to enslave you, then that is the reality that you are manifesting. Yes you! You know who you are, so cut it out.
Everyone should instead think of and help bring about a utopian paradise instead.


Discussion
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Quantum Physics - You are the creator



You would think that after thousands of years of wars, we would have learnt from history by now and that violence solves nothing.







[edit on 8-2-2009 by kindred]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 02:11 PM
link   
Okay... I dont see how this is related to quantum physics on any level, whatsoever, at all.
I think your post about it was pretty much completely off topic, accept when you wrote, "You are the creator." Yes... exactly. We are all leaders if we so choose to be, but please no more talk about quantum physics.

I dont believe world peace can ever exist enless we have Anarchy. Because if you have a government or form of leader it will ALWAYS become corupt. There is no way around it. The unequal polarity will form. Quite the opposite of spirituality by the way, isnt it.

And celebrities are leaders too. People follow them obviously. I believe that, no we dont always need leaders. People arent destined to kill themselvs without one. Actually, I think its just the opposite. People are destined to kill themselvs with one. Yeah... look at the world!!!

[edit on 8-2-2009 by Wisen Heimer]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 02:16 PM
link   
We are social creatures. And society cannot - as it is not in nature, for example - be an anarchy. Cats are an "anarchy" bunch and have no problem with it - thus there is no feline society. We are "hierarchy" bunch and will find it impossible to live in anarchy. If all modern society will crumble and anarchy would follow- it would be only temporarily until some individual will make himself alpha-dude by force.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 02:48 PM
link   
We dont have to be anything. Kindred apparently proved it with quantum physics.
We are creators of ourselvs inwhich the world is the reflection of.

We are social people. Naturally very social, but dont you think leaders devide our species? We have many false gods and many leaders we follow. Money, machines, technology, authority, media, politics, government, etc.

All those things are destroying the Earth along with the entire human species. Are we destined to kill ourselvs no matter what we do? No, i dont believe that and I also dont believe that we need leaders. The indains and many "primitive" cultures have no leaders. They may have a shaman, but hes not issueing orders out to anyone. He is simply someone that they respect and take advice from.

You can have someone to look up to. Maybe someone whose oppinion you may value, but no one should have the right to order your life and create the rath of God. Which doesnt truly exist in the first place... I believe in God, but there is no judgement or punishment. No one is guilty.

I believe a leader tries to replace God.
Yeah I said it. Sound absurd to you? Sound crazy? Well thats probably because your a slave... Yeah said that too.

[edit on 8-2-2009 by Wisen Heimer]



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 03:07 PM
link   
reply to post by Wisen Heimer
 


Native Americans had no leaders?
Chiefs, kings and such are surely fine example of crystal clear anarchy.
Like this:


At the time of Columbus's arrival in 1492, there were five Taíno kingdoms and territories on Hispaniola (modern day Haiti and Dominican Republic), each led by a principal Cacique (chieftain), to whom tribute was paid

en.wikipedia.org...
Tribute - aka some sort of money was even there,even then.
Do not get me wrong - our societies are not perfect and we do worship golden calf,so to speak. But alas, we are hard-wired for certain social hierarchy and no complaining would do.
If we would accept limitations(or simply "specs") of our design and learn to counter-balance it properly, then result would be much better then trying to do great things against very nature of Humans. Look at Communism - it is much more appealing then Capitalism. And yet it constantly fails because it does not take human behavior in the account.
Democracy is less worse then other systems because there are counter-balancing mechanisms , ant they all come naturally to people.
And we are not atoms nor photons. So quantum mechanics and its principles are good for describing behavior of week forces and tiny particles. It is not one field theory.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 04:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by Wisen Heimer
We dont have to be anything. Kindred apparently proved it with quantum physics.
We are creators of ourselvs inwhich the world is the reflection of.

We are social people. Naturally very social, but dont you think leaders devide our species? We have many false gods and many leaders we follow. Money, machines, technology, authority, media, politics, government, etc.

All those things are destroying the Earth along with the entire human species. Are we destined to kill ourselvs no matter what we do? No, i dont believe that and I also dont believe that we need leaders. The indains and many "primitive" cultures have no leaders. They may have a shaman, but hes not issueing orders out to anyone. He is simply someone that they respect and take advice from.

You can have someone to look up to. Maybe someone whose oppinion you may value, but no one should have the right to order your life and create the rath of God. Which doesnt truly exist in the first place... I believe in God, but there is no judgement or punishment. No one is guilty.

I believe a leader tries to replace God.
Yeah I said it. Sound absurd to you? Sound crazy? Well thats probably because your a slave... Yeah said that too.

[edit on 8-2-2009 by Wisen Heimer]


Zero knowledge has it right, the native americans and many "primitive cultures" had leaders, they had their head hunters, who for all the world were the luckiest bastards...who do you think these nomadic people followed all those years?

Sure you could say well they all decided to go together, well who brought that up? or are they all telepathic and simultaneously said "time to go"?

We all have people we look up to, they are our leaders in the simplest sense of the word, we respect these people enough to give them our full attention, we care about what they have to say, we heed with caution warnings they bring to our attention.

Even in times of crisis, those who take control to fix the situation are usually looked to as leaders. It's everywhere

You can't escape!!!!!



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 04:48 PM
link   
The difference between someone you respect and a leader is that the leader has manifested the wrath of God upon you.



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 08:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by Wisen Heimer
The difference between someone you respect and a leader is that the leader has manifested the wrath of God upon you.


How does respecting someone, and being a leader have to do with the wrath of God falling upon me?

Are you saying that in order to be a leader, you have to instill fear in the hearts of your followers... because they don't want the wrath of God to fall upon them?

Or is it, that if you're respected, you obviously can't be a leader?

I'm just confused on how you made that connection



posted on Feb, 8 2009 @ 10:01 PM
link   
A leader establishes authority over other people. If you do something wrong according to the commandments of the leader you will be punished. Manifesting the wrath of God.

Someone you respect is only there as a guide, not a commander.

Edit: Did anyone watch the youtube? Its NOT about quantum physics I swear.
lol How did quantum physics make its way into this conversation.
It doesnt explain EVERYTHING. It explains very little in my oppinion. Maybe quantum physics is SOOO crazy because we are only seeing our own thoughts! Not actuall phenomena. On a super microscopic level you are not seeing what is truly there, but the image that your brain creates because your eyes cant see that far. You see with your brain. Big woop! Thats common sense.

[edit on 8-2-2009 by Wisen Heimer]



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 02:19 PM
link   
i'd have to disagree partly. Not wholly, as the tribe scenario is a pretty good idea, but it needs leaders to work. Yes Native Americans had Chiefs, but the difference between that kind of leader and the kind we have today is that most Chiefs, if not all, acted FOR the good of the tribe. and i'm speaking of the American and Canadian variety. Pre-Columbian as well, before they picked up materialism, and those pesky blankets.

The Chiefs would act in accordance with the will of the people. The people trusted him to make decisions which would come out in favor of the tribe as a whole. These Chiefs weren't worried about bureaucratic power struggles, mainly because they were dictators. Dictatorships work well if the only group being governed is a small to mid-size tribe. Heck, the Iroquois even had a large Governing body of tribes that spanned 4 states, and they lived in peace for 400 years. The Original League of Nations. They had a ruling council and all that, and a Head President type figure, chief of chiefs type thing going.

But i figure that would only work in our situation if the "tribe" was relatively small, say 250 people at the most. Because that gives more direct contact between the whole tribe and the leader. The leaders stop helping us, when they become unattached from us emotionally. No empathy is a bad thing.

Anarchy would be one solution. Not the only solution IMO, but a valid one nonetheless. Tribes would spring up, but no longer the 250 -300 size limit. We're talking tribes of maybe even 5,000. Single tribes. The leaders won't be as unattached as say, if they were ruling 300 million, but i'd still say absolute control would be hard. Too many people with a different idea on how the tribe should be run.

The Chiefs of old, they had an innate sense of pride in being of they're tribe. They knew that every decision made was important, because they saw, lived and experienced the outcome of their decisions. Not to mention anybody could come and voice they're dissent right there in front of the chief, without worrying about getting locked up in leavenworth.

My two cents.

Love and Peace.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 07:17 PM
link   
yeah. I suppose we will always need a leader, but in that case humanity is always destined to become corupt and then suffer to restore peace and then live okay and then become corupt once again and suffer to restore peace. Like an on going cycle of conflict and resolution. Can we ever brake the chain?

[edit on 9-2-2009 by Wisen Heimer]



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 09:44 PM
link   
Check out the thread in my sig. if its possible to to live peacefully and happily in our materialistic physical world, dude, Ameterasu's book describes it exactly. im sure you'll see it pretty quickly.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 11:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by Wisen Heimer
A leader establishes authority over other people. If you do something wrong according to the commandments of the leader you will be punished. Manifesting the wrath of God.

Someone you respect is only there as a guide, not a commander.

[edit on 8-2-2009 by Wisen Heimer]


You see, that's where we will have to agree to disagree, I believe that respecting someone who is also a LEADER is possible.

I also believe that not all leaders will "bring the wrath of God" upon you for disobeying them. Leaders aren't holy men, they aren't messiahs, they aren't ANYTHING other than someone who was chosen to serve the greater good of their community.

There are exceptions, Hitler for one...Bush for another, both were leaders, one believed what he was doing was the right thing, that he was doing God's work by ridding the world of all it's "vermin". The other...well I think the other is just an idiot.

Yet then we have Barack Obama. I didn't vote for him, in fact, I'm one of "those people" who is just watching him for the moment. But I DO respect him, I respect him as a man, as a leader, and as someone who, at the end of the day is giving hope to the citizens of this country as well as the world.

Does my respect for him make him any less a leader or commander for it?

Or I stand to ask the question, should be terrified of him instead? How should one approach a "leader", with fear? With anxiety? Paranoia?

Also, wouldn't people we look to as guides be leaders as well? They are, after all, guides and whether we like it or not, we look to them for GUIDANCE. The decisions they make affect ours. Like role models, what they do has an impact on those who look up to them.

-JR


edit to add: After re-reading the thread, based on not only the title, but the nature of the responses, I get the feeling that you're putting leaders on this pedestal that they don't deserve to be on. Leaders are not gods, and like I stated in my first response, if anyone were to be accused of being a false god, it would the celebrities, because people do truly worship them. Leaders are no more than ordinary people, put in extraordinary circumstances, who take advantage of the opportunities presented to them. What I mean by that is, that at the end of the day, everyone has to answer to the true God, whether it be the christian God or another. No one is above the Law.

[edit on 9-2-2009 by bandaidctrl]



new topics

top topics



 
0

log in

join