If the dollar collapses do we get out of student loans ?, page 4
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 3 times


reply posted on 2-2-2009 @ 02:30 PM by username371
reply to post by ProfEmeritus


I'm not talking about a legal definition of the word today. I said usury is historically immoral and criminal. This means charging ANY interest.



Here's why:

Each person in our world has a slice of the pie of available money that exists... some have a little, some have a lot. If compound interest is permitted, then whoever has the largest pile of money sitting in the bank collecting interest will be increasing their wealth faster than anyone else. Their huge pile of cash allows them to gather money faster than all their competition.

For example, if you have a million dollars at 5% interest, you have an automatic "income" of $50,000 per year. Great, you say.

A billionaire, however, has an income of $50 million dollars a year. That's a million dollars a week for doing nothing. And the more they get, the faster they get it.

If you follow the flow of money in such a scenario, you'll quickly see that whoever has the most money earning the most interest eventually eats up all the money left in the world, until everyone else ends up with nothing but debt to this person.

I'll say that again: Compound interest lets 1 "winner" get everything, while everyone else ends up with nothing but debt to this person. Understanding this fact brings up questions of morality. Is it ethical to let wealthy people prosper so much simply because they have so much to prosper with? Where do we go once the rich own everything? Is this the economic world we want to live in?

The rich will own it all... it is a mathematical certainty. The only thing missing from making this obvious to everyone is time. Either we permit compound interest to exist, or we permit 1 person to own us all. The choice is ours.

You know how the saying goes... "The rich get richer." This is why.





[edit on 2-2-2009 by username371]


reply posted on 2-2-2009 @ 02:34 PM by projectvxn
reply to post by username371



Couldn't have said it better. Jesus' number one issue with the Temple was the practice of usury, which the Bible, the Koran and many other holy texts have written against. Interest is, in fact, immoral.


reply posted on 2-2-2009 @ 02:36 PM by Johnmike
www.payscale.com...=Pediatrician,_General/Salary

3k a year is nothing compared to the salary of a pediatrician. No complaining about med school loans.



reply posted on 2-2-2009 @ 02:44 PM by d4ng3rm0u53
reply to post by admriker444


Sign me up too! I have been paying on student loans for about 20years and still can not pay them off. Every time I get to a break even point, I get laid off or something happens that insurance wont pay for and I lose my life savings (divorce) and can not pay off the loans. I'm an Electrical Engineer who is once again out of work. This economy is so bad that if given a choice, I would get a loan from the government and start a small business that employed less than 10 people. I'm not greedy, just want to live without eating Ramen Noodles or Rice all the time. I'm not into anything that costs a lot of money for entertainment, I don't own a TV, and drive an economical car. I just feel shorted when I am working and the first four months of the year are spent working for taxes. Being single, I get hit hard with taxes. I have nothing of real property and nothing to write off. The government has effectively killed the hard working class. I for one have nothing more to give.


reply posted on 2-2-2009 @ 03:49 PM by Blaine91555
reply to post by admriker444


So the Welfare mentality has reached all the way to the upper levels. I knew that but this helps to confirm.

The Government guarantee means that if you don't pay, they take money from taxpayers who could never afford to go to Medical School to pay your wife's debt for you.

If you can afford those payment and a house payment you are already in the privileged class. Your student loan payment is more than most make so you must make a very large salary.

I'd heard of MD's skipping the country to get out of paying. Pretty sad. I would not trust one of them to be my MD.

If your of the opinion the government should bail you out you are the problem.


reply posted on 2-2-2009 @ 05:03 PM by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by projectvxn




Interest is, in fact, immoral.


OK, great. Would you be willing to lend me $10,000 interest free? I'll pay you back whenever I get around to it. If you need a specific time frame, I'll pay you back in 15 years.


reply posted on 2-2-2009 @ 05:16 PM by projectvxn
reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Yes I would. A legally binding program would be efficient enough to guarantee you pay back. If you don't it's theft and you go to jail. I can make my profit from processing fees.


reply posted on 2-2-2009 @ 05:22 PM by Mynaeris
reply to post by projectvxn


I'd like to borrow $250 000 from you - I am willing to sign every document you want. Interest free over 30 years that would be the equivalent of about $60 000 dollars that you will get back ( though it will still be called $250 000) Or if America becomes the next Zimbabwe - I will pay you back with a 10 million dollar note and tell you to keep the change because you can only buy a loaf of bread with it.

[edit on 2-2-2009 by Mynaeris]


reply posted on 2-2-2009 @ 05:25 PM by projectvxn
reply to post by Mynaeris


And it is for this reason that you need sound monetary policy. Meaning money based on hard valued assets like gold.


reply posted on 2-2-2009 @ 06:13 PM by burdman30ott6
Originally posted by Mynaeris
reply to post by projectvxn


I'd like to borrow $250 000 from you - I am willing to sign every document you want. Interest free over 30 years that would be the equivalent of about $60 000 dollars that you will get back ( though it will still be called $250 000) Or if America becomes the next Zimbabwe - I will pay you back with a 10 million dollar note and tell you to keep the change because you can only buy a loaf of bread with it.

[edit on 2-2-2009 by Mynaeris]


Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Yes I would. A legally binding program would be efficient enough to guarantee you pay back. If you don't it's theft and you go to jail. I can make my profit from processing fees.


I will gladly loan you that $250,000 interest free, Mynaeris. However, my processing fee is $350,000 up front. Pay me back the $250,000 loan amount whenever, that doesn't really matter that much.

In other words, I am not a Jew nor am I a Muslim. Therefore, I have no moral problems with usury. (ironic that usury is illegal in the Old Testament, yet most of our banking industry is controlled by people of Jewish ancestry.) I figure that as long as nobody is twisting your arm and forcing you to sign contracts and accept thousands of dollars under high interest rates, it's pretty much the borrower's responsibillity to accept whatever interest rate was agreed upon between them and the lender, regardless of future changes of heart. I do not, however, believe in floating interest rates. Those are predatory and only a fool would agree to them... this includes the millions of fools who hold credit cards whose rates change with the wind. Again, however, as long as the law allows them it's the idiot who agreed to the term's fault entirely.


reply posted on 2-2-2009 @ 06:17 PM by burdman30ott6
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I'm a Christian, yet I've always been highly amused at the "treat others as you would have yourself treated" victim card. I expect NOTHING from anyone not living under my roof. If I was a moron and did something sincerely dumb in the presence of another, I'd expect to be laughed at or taken advantage of. In fact, I HOPE that's exactly what would happen because that's exactly what I'd deserve to have happen. It's called emotional and educational natural selection.



reply posted on 2-2-2009 @ 06:29 PM by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by burdman30ott6


Well, then technically, you are not a Christian. Because that was the teaching of Jesus, the Christ.

Not saying you are wrong for whatever faith you choose to practice, just saying that if you do not follow the teachings of Jesus, you are not really a Christian in the defining sense of the word. You are someone who has another faith, who has adopted the term.


reply posted on 2-2-2009 @ 07:23 PM by speaknoevil07
Is it theft when hospital corporations buy million dollar homes for doctors then say their income is 140.000.00 per year? No they would not try to get out of income tax, live in a luxury home and have the hosptial corp pay for it? See what a lot of people don't realize is that high ranking CEO's and doctors......get a lot of stuff paid for but not with cash. I have seen Cars, houses, stock and local bonds given essentially to doctors without the public knowing it. This is NOT discussed openly. I am not saying get out of your loans....I am saying most medical corporations pay for doctors to come and work and peds is a high risk needed area. I am sure you can find a corporation to assume your debts, you sign the paper and whaaaaallaaaaaaaaaaa it is paid off. I am not sure of the reality of what you discuss.....because in reality, doctors who are thru residency make a lot of money. It is nothing to bill Medicare for millions of dollars....doctors have to be businessmen. Find a deal, have some corp pay off the stupid hoop jump loans......Sounds like someone is still in residency and has no money and someone else wanted money NOW. It takes years to get thru the process..10 years before docs are profitable. However they make up for their slow start in leaps and bounds by working for the corporations that pay them moderate salaries(taxable) and GIVE them other stuff to keep them happy and to hide the money. No further details.....but I personally know this occurs.The money is hidden. period.
Be patient and your wife will be Loaded one day...........pay your loans. They are no big deal, really..........an investment that is going to pay hugh dividends but it takes years. Oh yea the tail on peds cases is to the age of 18 and in some cases 21 years old.......get a lot of malpractice, a good lawyer and a GREAT CPA. Obama will try to take your blood, sweat and MONEY!

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