Crew welds 200 plates to Building for 3 months "almost unknown"

Originally posted by Seymour Butz
Those types of explanations might work for the general public.

But what about the building manager, engineer, etc?

Me thinks that they would know what was going on, and be checking up on a daily basis.

Then why doesn't anyone remember "Rocky" Hammad and what he was supposedly doing in the basement? Or even who hired him and his "crew"?

Surely the building managers (yes, I'm certainly positive that there was more than one for each tower), engineers, etc. were asking the right questions correct?

Or are we to believe that all pertinent people of a position to know were killed? Hmm.. Seems far fetched to me.

So tell us Seymour. What was "Rocky" doing in the basement of the towers weeks before they collapsed?

[edit on 2/2/2009 by Griff]

reply to post by jfj123

Was it also hit by a jet traveling at near mach speeds?

I am not a structural engineer but I do know it was build to existing Los Angeles Earth Quake Codes in 1974 and it was a steel and glass tower tapering two meters as it rose to its final height of 262 meters and that a total of 5 floors were destroyed before the fire was put out.

I don't know if a striking jet would have more displacing energy than an Earthquake? I am not sure if it would have more energy than the constant combined winds at those higher altitudes tall buildings are built to withstand.

I also have no idea why nearly 8 years after the greatest crime in U.S. history no one has been indicted, tried or convicted even in abstensia in an American Court of Law.

Do you know?

My Griff, aren't we the curt one today? My explanation was that O'Neill knew what he had to do when he took the job although it was NOT his first day on the job. It would have been a Hell of a first day, huh?He actually started on 8/23. He was already the head of the FBI division in NY so he knew that security was and had to be very tight at the WTC. He is quoted as saying that they would come back to finish the job.

Chris Isham, a senior producer at ABC News who is a close friend, says to him, “Well, that will be an easy job. They’re not going to bomb that place again.” O’Neill replies, “Well actually they’ve always wanted to finish that job. I think they’re going to try again.” After a few days as the WTC security director, O’Neill will move into his new office on the 34th floor of the South Tower.

Also.....

1. Marvin Bush's company he was on the board of stopped. security tasks for the WTC before GW took office in 98. Stratsec was the name. It was electronic surveillance. Mr Marvin was gone in 2000.

2. Kroll Inc handled security since the WTC 93 bombing.

3. Hammad...could he have in some way disrupted the sprinklers that did not work on 9/11? just a thought...

[edit on 2-2-2009 by esdad71]

reply to post by Griff


The TM's premise is that these explosives/whatever would have been planted without anyone ever finding out about it.

So how does posting yet another example of people being caught where they shouldn't be bolster that premise again?

It undermines it.

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen

in reply to my post
First of all, how do we know for certain that they were not in fact speaking of the Explosions in relations to a Flaming Jet, which just so happened to be embedded in the Skyscraper?

As the Jet as you point out was on several floors on the top, and the witnesses there the professionals say it was happening in a timed way going down much much below that.

Second, if you know anything about structural supports failing due to fatigue, whether it be a Tree Branch, or a Steel Beam, you ALWAYS hear a Thundering Crack and Boom before it snaps and collapses.

I dont know anything about Structural engineering, but have a fair degree of knowledge from Environmental Engineering on the basics.

The point is I was talking about the The Firement there on the ground and walkways who say this event.

They IMHO are more able to understand building collapses than any structural engineer, Structural Engineers just have to know the thresholds and regulations so that buildings wont collapse so they can be built.

The Firefighters are trained, esp the Top ones on the scene that day are trained to work in exploded, dangerous, fire ravaged and structurally weak environments, when to evacuate, how to stop things getting worse and such like.

They were as well as the true heroes that day, the only real experts in this.

I am not making a statement from my point of view, just relaying the actual words and actions I have seen them describe, the fact they could that day understand what had happened, that They heard explosions before the floors collapsed, and that they were timed in a sequential way, going down before the floors fell on top of each other.

Also just common sense tells you that as half of Manhattan was covered in dust, and not flattened but the falling towers does not make any sense at all.

Kind Regards,

Elf

[edit on 2-2-2009 by MischeviousElf]

This operation was not planned overnight I can assure you. Here are some questions that I would like any "truther" to answer honestly: Did you know that the bulk of the WTC steel was sold as SCRAP overseas, some of it to CHINA and INDIA?

Do you realise that a new independant investigation will be SEVERELY HAMPERED by the fact that much of the remains is now on foreign soil?

Did you know that our government is made up of over a million human beings, many of whom are capable of very nasty deeds if it means making billions of dollars and satisfying their own needs(such as rituals and the take over of an innocent country that gives the US a strategical advantage in the Middle East from a military stand point.)

Do you trust a government that won't keep criminals off the street, won't solve the drug problem, won't teach our kids how to read, won't repair our roads and bridges, won't secure our borders and is always broke no matter how often they raise taxes, to police itself, wage global warfare, install democracies in foreign lands and build a utopia for all mankind?

reply to post by treemanx



Im sorry I have seen those two buildings in person when living in NYC for the first 15 years of my life. There is no way two planes crashing into the buildings would cause enough damage by themselves to take down those two buildings. How do you explain in terms of physics and law of gravity how two very similar aircraft, crashing into different areas of each tower cause two different explosions(the second plane caused a greater explosion on impact.) and that in turn causes both buildings to fall in the same exact manner not toppling over, or the tip of the building falling over but falling perfectly in place as if there was some sort of pocket of air that was holding the structure in that very spot. I am sorry only explosions from the inside would create that pocket, not fires destroying the steel structure of the building. If fires did indeed destroy the steel than you would have seen the tip from the first impact falling over way before it would have spread throughout the entire structure.

reply to post by esdad71


Thank you for that explanation. I know we will most likely never agree on this topic but I do like it when you come to it with stuff that can be backed up. Two weeks is plenty of time for this man, especially one of his caliber, to get to know his job. However, IF (and yes, I'll admit it is a big IF) there were explosives planted in that building by people within the government, it would most likely have been done WELL in advance of him getting there. I don't know if it would have been his priority to go and look at the infrastructure of the buildings to see if there was anything suspicious planted there.

Originally posted by esdad71
My Griff, aren't we the curt one today?

Not at all. Sorry if it came out that way.

3. Hammad...could he have in some way disrupted the sprinklers that did not work on 9/11? just a thought...

Wouldn't that negate the "19 hijackers alone did it" theory?

Originally posted by Seymour Butz
reply to post by Griff

 

The TM's premise is that these explosives/whatever would have been planted without anyone ever finding out about it.

So how does posting yet another example of people being caught where they shouldn't be bolster that premise again?

It undermines it.

Once again, you misunderstand my premise.

"Rocky" did not get caught where he wasn't supposed to be.

He was badged to be at the towers. It's just that his story for being there is suspect. The PA handled it's own sprinkler work, not an individual tenant's contractor. That is why "Rocky" is suspect.

Another reason it is suspect is because whoever signed for "Rocky" to obtain a basement level pass is no where to be found.

Now, you want us to believe that every single contractor had their credentials checked etc., etc. Well, obviously, "Rocky" puts a screw in your gears because NO ONE remembers what he was there to do.

Again: I think the argument that it would be impossible is absurd.

[edit on 2/2/2009 by Griff]

reply to post by pipefitter



Your right the noise would be amplified but what happens when you do not see anybody working on the floor where they are supposedly working on? The buildings were opened in 1973, What if this whole thing was planned out before they were built? What if the sole purpose of those two structures being built was to take them down on 9/11 and start the expansion of the NWO in the middle east? Any large building or structure has to be built with the small possibility of an aircraft crashing into it at some point in time by accident, so how do people explain the collapse of two of the strongest buildings in the world, by two planes?!?

Check these videos out and let me know what you think: www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...


[edit on 2-2-2009 by glenn84]

I've worked in large buildings most of my adult life, one of the towers I worked in is on the cover of Yes' album Going For The One. With service elevators construction crews can come and go throughout the buildings without getting noticed. It's not like they walk through the lobby with all their equipment. Whenever something would go wrong or a little bit of work was needed in the building it'd be a case of coming back from lunch and things were fixed or coming back in the morning to see some changes. A good trained construction crew can work fast, discrete all without really getting noticed. Again, it's nothing out of the ordinary so why take note of it? Great thread.

Originally posted by Griff

1-He was badged to be at the towers.

2-It's just that his story for being there is suspect.

1- for one day. Read the links.

2- and yet, he was released after a letter explaining what he was doing there that day was produced. Read the links.

The intelluctual bankruptcy it takes to believe that this helps the TM in any way is off the scale....

reply to post by Chadwickus


You know, this is the first time I've actually seen anyone post real evidence one way or the other about this subject.

Thanks. Based on what you've posted, it's pretty obvious that research is not as important as opinion.

Good post.

reply to post by Griff


Like I've posted, I get stopped almost every time I'm working in a building. Even if I'm there for a very short time. People are nosey and want to know what I'm doing and how it's going to affect them. I've been doing this for 13 years and for 13 years, people have been stopping me and I don't even play the violin.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by jfj123
Sounds like normal construction to me.
Do you know how many floor would need to be wired for demolition, to drop the towers?

According to the Official Story and it's believers, all you need is one floor's worth of columns to be severed.

Can you cite any professional demolition stats that show this? Everything I've ever read requires physical weakening of the entire structure and charge placement from bottom to top.

I'll even do you one better. Why bother wiring a huge building at all? Why not pull a few moving trucks full of high explosives into the parking area and boom ! This way, they building would probably fall outside of their own footprint and cause even more terror and damage. The more damage and terror, the more outrage the American public would experience.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by jfj123
Anyway, I get frustrated because I get stopped so much and asked what's going on? Who's moving into the suite? What's it gonna be? When is it gonna be done? Will this affect my computers? Will this affect my power or phone? etc... etc.... etc.... etc.....

And someone who is badged to be in the building under cover of some maintenance can't answer these questions with ....yes or no? Please.

They're not yes or no questions and they're never short questions and require detailed answers or people call management companies who then will call me for details they would have gotten in the invoice. This means it takes me even longer to get a job done as I now need to explain it verbally 2 times and 1 time in writing.
Trust me, yes or no doesn't work with most people.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by jfj123

 

Was it also hit by a jet traveling at near mach speeds?

I am not a structural engineer but I do know it was build to existing Los Angeles Earth Quake Codes in 1974

No, actually you know it was supposed to have been built to code. You don't know it was built to code. Big difference.
Almost every building I work on was supposed to be built to code but is not built to code.

Originally posted by jfj123
Like I've posted, I get stopped almost every time I'm working in a building. Even if I'm there for a very short time. People are nosey and want to know what I'm doing and how it's going to affect them. I've been doing this for 13 years and for 13 years, people have been stopping me and I don't even play the violin.

Your experience is opposite of mine. I've been to classified buildings roaming around without a single instance of someone asking me who I was or what I was doing. Check my avatar. That's not just some pic I found on the internet.

Originally posted by jfj123
Can you cite any professional demolition stats that show this?

The official story as stated by everyone.

Everything I've ever read requires physical weakening of the entire structure and charge placement from bottom to top.

So how did damage from a plane and ensuing fires do it then?

Would severing one floor's worth of columns (vertical support) not be the exact same scenario as the official story? If not, why not?