Can Faith change the world for better? your thoughts please :)

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posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 12:28 PM
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Faith is said to be the belief in something, characteristically without proof.

What is faith to you?

How do you define it?

Is it faith that saves a person or knowledge?

To answer this though, you must first answer, what is it that you are being saved from?

What is it that you are putting your faith in?

Can faith bring about true change in your life? If it can, please explain how?

If what your faith is in were to be proven wrong, where would that leave you?

Is doubt wrong? If you think so, why?

What is absolute Truth?

Is your faith grounded in that absolute Truth and if you think so, how do you know this?

Can faith bring about Peace in this world? If so, how? If not, why?

Do you think the following statement is correct? Why or why not?
Reason is our soul's left hand, Faith her right. ~John Donne

I will wait awhile to see the answers and give it some time to honestly consider the view points brought forth and then give my thoughts on this topic. Thank you in advance to all those who are willing to take the time to share their thoughts concerning Faith.




posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 01:25 PM
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Not when it's forced on a population.

When someone's life is in danger for not believe another's faith, it becomes a problem, not a solution in this world.



posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 02:17 PM
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Hi,


Originally posted by justamomma
What is faith to you?


Not much, as I can accept most possibilities, without much problem (all the while being very individualistic, of course). I do play with a few beliefs (the basic idea of reincarnation, outside of any religion, and various intimate imaginary characters, notably, and some personal «story from the beginning, to today», to fill my possible «previous lives»), but I am really very detached from them (I sure can accept the idea of «absolute death»). Well, I'm still quite fond of my imaginary characters.



Originally posted by justamomma
How do you define it?


A belief should really be an absolute possibility (that is, an idea which is reasoned, and resistant enough, to be useful, that is, to reinforce our feelings of security, stability, and certitude, and maybe use it a bit, for some uncertain decisions, although it should be done with much care, even for ourselves, that is, after having well reflected, reasoned, and analyzed the problem, and the different possibilities). Otherwise, you are simply wrong (which is quite common, in today society, notably because of various old prejudices, and old local contexts, have been wrongly considered as general and absolute, which they were not), and it can quickly lead to various problematic consequences, for you (at the very least, fragility, as you can be contradicted by reason, and as you cannot rest yourself on reason), and for others.

The difference between an absolute possibility, and a belief, is simply some orientation of your mind (considering a possibility, to be the «possibility by default», and resting a bit more, on it, than on other possibilities, although you should never reject them, as they are well possible, and rejecting them, could make you vulnerable -and it generally indicates a fear of these other possibilities, which is even more problematic, when it goes as far as negating their possibilities).

It can be used quite lightly, or a bit more seriously, depending on your personality, and your immediate situation (it is all about psychology).

By definition, it can only be individualistic. Otherwise, it is an oppression, which has nothing to do with any belief, and can be contradicted with reason, as all oppressions (at the very least, by pure materialism -«nothing matters»).



Originally posted by justamomma
Is it faith that saves a person or knowledge?


It depends on the specific situation. Globally, only knowledge, reason, can really free you from a problem (solve it profoundly). However, beliefs can help stabilize, securize, and ascertain you a bit more, if needed, to reflect, reason, and analyze, better, and more quickly. It can be quite useful, if properly handled.



Originally posted by justamomma
To answer this though, you must first answer, what is it that you are being saved from?


Problems in general. Insanity, ignorance, prejudices, taboos; apathy, procrastination, prostration, indecision; insecurity, uncertainty, unstability; stress, oppression, frustration.

When you are well-reasoned, you can accept, profoundly, being, existing, and living, with a well-developed individuality, and, from today society, try to start the transition to the idealistic society, really solving most external problems.



Originally posted by justamomma
What is it that you are putting your faith in?


(See my first answer).



Originally posted by justamomma
Can faith bring about true change in your life? If it can, please explain how?


(See my third and fourth answers).


[I'll continue in my next message, because of the oppressive 4000-character limit (even removing the quotes, I would have to split my message in two parts).]

[edit on 1-2-2009 by Senatsu Sakizakura]



posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 02:18 PM
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[Continuation from my previous post...]



Originally posted by justamomma
If what your faith is in were to be proven wrong, where would that leave you?


It should not be possible to prove it wrong, as said in my second answer, and my own beliefs are quite basic, and properly uncertain, so it just cannot be proven wrong.

It can be wrong, of course, being an uncertain possibility, and it most probably is, but being uncertain, I can rest on it, even if it is.



Originally posted by justamomma
Is doubt wrong? If you think so, why?


Doubt is, of course, perfectly normal. We are talking about possibilities, which are only uncertain possibilities. But when you are well-reasoned, you should be able to feel quite certain, secure, and stable, in your beliefs (although immediate problems, stress, oppression, and frustration, can easily make you doubt, but you should be able to handle it properly, being well-reasoned, «understanding yourself»).



Originally posted by justamomma
What is absolute Truth?


Pure logic, reason, liberty. It can be attained with enough reflection, reason, and analyze (of course, there is a lot of uncertainty, around a lot of subjects, but you can be sure of this uncertainty, and you can still decide on most subjects, by being enough open, flexible, and detached).



Originally posted by justamomma
Is your faith grounded in that absolute Truth and if you think so, how do you know this?


My beliefs are based on pure phenomenons, which are well possible. Being purely uncertain, they are indeed founded on the absolute truth.



Originally posted by justamomma
Can faith bring about Peace in this world? If so, how? If not, why?


It will help. At the very least, the belief in reincarnation, as the transition will probably last up to a century. However, you will achieve absolutely nothing serious, with beliefs alone (well, except if you are being helped, for these beliefs, by others, and for Earth, that would probably mean, possible gods or extraterrestrials, notably, but that wouldn't be really you achieving anything, and if you don't reflect, reason, and analyze, yourself, you will probably continue causing various significant problems, for yourself, and for others, which, if more global, could easily delay the complete transition to the idealistic society).



Originally posted by justamommaDo you think the following statement is correct? Why or why not?
Reason is our soul's left hand, Faith her right. ~John Donne


Well, beliefs can indeed be quite useful, even in the idealistic society (used a bit more lightly, because they would be a bit less important, as the global situation, and our own individual situation, should be quite tranquil already), but really, beliefs are only a simple psychological tool («convincing yourself a bit»), and they should really be based on reason, by a well-reasoned individual, so I really would not put them on the same level.


Bye.

[edit on 1-2-2009 by Senatsu Sakizakura]



posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 02:19 PM
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Blind faith does not replace inaction! When something is wrong, take an ounce of action now to prevent a pound of cure later on. Consider faith as that small, nagging voice inside one's head as the answer to one's prayer(s).



posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 02:22 PM
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OP, it all depends on what kind of faith you are speaking.

Fait in general?
Religious Faith?
Faith in Humanity?
Fait in one's self?

These are all fundementally different kinds of faith that can be very positive or very negative depending on the individual situations.

I for one do believe that faith can help change things, or make certain situations more tolerable, but only faith in myself and the others around me. I am not one to have religious faith, IMO blind religious faith is just a mechanism of control, but that's not what here here for.

Faith is a very iffy subject, it upsets most people when we have these conversations.

All i can say is that yes..faith does change things, many things, good and bad. It boils down to what kind of faith.



posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 02:38 PM
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Faith without action is pointless and stupid.
Faith that things will change and letting others take action without helping is sloth.



posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
OP, it all depends on what kind of faith you are speaking.

Fait in general?
Religious Faith?
Faith in Humanity?
Fait in one's self?

These are all fundementally different kinds of faith that can be very positive or very negative depending on the individual situations.

I for one do believe that faith can help change things, or make certain situations more tolerable, but only faith in myself and the others around me. I am not one to have religious faith, IMO blind religious faith is just a mechanism of control, but that's not what here here for.

Faith is a very iffy subject, it upsets most people when we have these conversations.

All i can say is that yes..faith does change things, many things, good and bad. It boils down to what kind of faith.


I did not define whether positive or negative, or if I meant religious or in humanity simply because I wanted gut reactions to the word. I used generic and wanted to leave it up to you all to define it in your terms.

I do not care to define what faith is for each individual person; I am genuinely curious what comes to mind based on these questions. I will throw in my 2 cents... but my 2 cents should have no bearing on what you all think now (which is why I haven't included my 2 cents yet.. not looking to argue.. just looking to see where people are at and what they are thinking).

By the way, thank you so far for the input everyone.. particularly the kind poster who took the time to answer the questions. It is quite interesting what you have to say.



posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma
Faith is said to be the belief in something, characteristically without proof.

What is faith to you?

How do you define it?

Is it faith that saves a person or knowledge?


I agree with your definition but I say it's knowledge. If you are "saved" by your faith, then you were just lucky. If you are "saved" by knowledge, then you probably saved yourself, no luck required.


To answer this though, you must first answer, what is it that you are being saved from?


Well why do you think you are here? Why does anything exist?


What is absolute Truth?


If such a thing exists, I hesitate to say it could ever be defined using the English language.

I once wondered, "What is -- objectively -- the difference between "good" and "evil"? What is a basic 'unit' of 'good,' and what is a basic 'unit' of 'bad'?" And then I came across Taoism and Zen Buddhism and it was proven to me that neither good nor bad truly exist. They are perspectives, phantoms, ultimately mean nothing. What is good to one man, is horrifying to another. Similarly what is "true" to one person is an outright blasphemous lie to someone else.


Do you think the following statement is correct? Why or why not?
Reason is our soul's left hand, Faith her right. ~John Donne


John Donne was a mystic. His "reason" is our reason, logic, analytics, etc., but his "faith" is intuition, imagination, not necessarily blind belief in something. Also notice he says reason is the left hand, and faith the right hand. There is significance to that, too. The duality of left/right is commonly united artistically with the duality of male/female or intuition/logic in occult symbolism. I could spend days elaborating on all the forms in the world that take these dualistic interacting relationships. It causes the whole universe to go 'round, from positive and negative nuclear forces holding each atom in check, on up. Duality and alternation dominate this world, which is why change is constant.



posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11
I once wondered, "What is -- objectively -- the difference between "good" and "evil"? What is a basic 'unit' of 'good,' and what is a basic 'unit' of 'bad'?" And then I came across Taoism and Zen Buddhism and it was proven to me that neither good nor bad truly exist. They are perspectives, phantoms, ultimately mean nothing. What is good to one man, is horrifying to another. Similarly what is "true" to one person is an outright blasphemous lie to someone else.


While the ideas of «good», and «bad», are, of course, strictly relative (they have absolutely no meaning, in pure materialism -which isn't... bad, in itself, as it enables detachment, when needed), it does just mean you have to decide on a relation (which is quite fundamental, to exist, and live, anyway, and a good relation, very well reflected, reasoned, and analyzed, generally makes the difference, between the ideal, and an insane society -e.g., the basic example, being today human society on Earth, of course). And a relation can be very well founded on reason, and quite absolute. Generally, prejudices, and the lack of the global vision, of being, of existing, and of living, are the problems, if people cannot agree on what is «good», and what is «bad» (or with more nuance, which is generally more proper, what is positive, and what is negative, in a given situation, depending on the relation you chose).

If someone starts a new topic on this subject (or find an old one about it), I can introduce a relation, which is quite absolute (although I will really detail it, only later, elsewhere, in better conditions, as it needs some time, which I need for this better presentation, far more global, and far more useful, to all).



posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma

What is faith to you?


Wishful thinking


Is it faith that saves a person or knowledge?


Knowledge and acting on that knowledge because knowledge presupposes that you know better.


To answer this though, you must first answer, what is it that you are being saved from?


That is a good question for those of faith.


What is it that you are putting your faith in?


My ability to recognize that existence exists. That reality is real. But that isn't really faith, but a mere act of finding more and more information through experience about what is and what is not.


Can faith bring about true change in your life? If it can, please explain how?


Faith relieves people of the responsibility of dealing with reality.


If what your faith is in were to be proven wrong, where would that leave you?


When I completely rid myself of faith, I stopped feeling guilty about existing.


Is doubt wrong?


No. Only if you are trying to hide the fact the doubts you have about faith, then it is wrong to not try to find out why you doubt what you have been told.


What is absolute Truth?


Cause and effect. Reality. A is A. 2 + 2 = 4


Can faith bring about Peace in this world? If so, how? If not, why?


Nope. Look at what it was done for the last 4000+ years. If one considers that peace, I don't want peace.


Do you think the following statement is correct? Why or why not?
Reason is our soul's left hand, Faith her right. ~John Donne


We exist only because of reason. The moment we rely completely on faith we are dead. Example: If I wish to not starve, I must eat. That's reason. Faith tells us that we don't have go out and work to get sustenance, it tells us to wish for it and it will be so.

The biggest reason why faith will never bring peace on earth is because all religions worship death. The people of faith tell us that we are guilty simply for existing, and for the crime of thinking from the moment we are born. They all claim that this life is not real, and that real life is death about which only they, "the gatekeepers of knowledge" know about.(preachers, popes, religious texts, politicians etc). They hate existence and do everything they can to make it go away. They hate people who love this life.

Well I choose to love this life because it's the only thing I know that is real. I love the grass and the sky because it exists and I get to observe them. I love the work that men who use their minds to form matter as they see fit. I love my ability to learn new things and apply them to bring me more joy. I love doing the things that I love doing.

You either choose to accept that existence exists or that death is a better option.

[edit on 1-2-2009 by Cool Hand Luke]



posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke
The biggest reason why faith will never bring peace on earth is because all religions worship death. [...]


You are confusing today religions, with the independent idea, of simple pure beliefs (as I said in the first par of my first reply, absolute possibilities, and some orientation of the mind, to rest a bit more, on some of these possibilities, without rejected the others).

Your ideas are quite typical, of going from one extreme, to the other, in reaction to stress, oppression, and frustration (although, as I said in the second part of my first reply, beliefs are not that fundamental, but rejecting them, is simply wrong, and as I said, in the first part of my first reply, they can be quite useful, notably in today society, as long as they are, of course, well-reasoned, and properly understood, as a tool of psychology), that is, to try to protect yourself, with prejudices, and indeed, erroneous beliefs, which is what you are trying to avoid (which is indeed very good).

(I hope you are alright, with me being a bit direct).



posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by Senatsu Sakizakura
While the ideas of «good», and «bad», are, of course, strictly relative (they have absolutely no meaning, in pure materialism -which isn't... bad, in itself, as it enables detachment, when needed), it does just mean you have to decide on a relation (which is quite fundamental, to exist, and live, anyway, and a good relation, very well reflected, reasoned, and analyzed, generally makes the difference, between the ideal, and an insane society -e.g., the basic example, being today human society on Earth, of course).


I agree wholeheartedly.

I throw away "good" and "bad" forever, but simultaneously I gain the understanding that comes before good-and-bad, that inspired the original concept of "good" in the first place, which allows me to be "good" to a degree that other people are often too selfish or afraid to emulate.

Along the idea of "Good is as good does," to paraphrase Forrest Gump, if I had to try to pinpoint one duality that is both practical and dividing of "good" and "bad," it would be what people call "service to self" and "service to others." You are either an entropic process that only wastes energy, ie you are selfish, or you are a very giving person with living energies and a lightning rod to our absolution and union with Everything. But if you aspire to the latter then don't neglect yourself first, not merely for yourself, but for the betterment of others.


The Tao te Ching says what I want to say better, of course:


18

When the great Tao is forgotten,
goodness and piety appear.
When the body's intelligence declines,
cleverness and knowledge step forth.
When there is no peace in the family,
filial piety begins.
When the country falls into chaos,
patriotism is born.

19

Throw away holiness and wisdom,
and people will be a hundred times happier.
Throw away morality and justice,
and people will do the right thing.
Throw away industry and profit,
and there won't be any thieves.

If these three aren't enough,
just stay at the center of the circle
and let all things take their course.


academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu...

[edit on 1-2-2009 by bsbray11]



posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by Senatsu Sakizakura

You are confusing today religions, with the independent idea, of simple pure beliefs (as I said in the first par of my first reply, absolute possibilities, and some orientation of the mind, to rest a bit more, on some of these possibilities, without rejected the others).


I confused no such thing. I was answering the OP's question with regard to the context that she asked the question (which to my mind was about todays religions, but I could be wrong). But my answer still stands no matter if the faith is from religious institutions, political institutions, academic etc.

Faith is, by definition, ignoring reality. Since reality consists of your ability to live and your ability to observe it, if you ignore it, you are choosing death or in other words non life. There is no escape from cause and effect no matter how much wishing you do.


Your ideas are quite typical, of going from one extreme, to the other, in reaction to stress, oppression, and frustration


It is not a reaction to stress, it was my answer to the OPs questions. On the contrary, I came up with my ideas because of a lack of stress, oppression, frustration
.


(although, as I said in the second part of my first reply, beliefs are not that fundamental, but rejecting them, is simply wrong,


Why? What is wrong with accepting the world around me and rejecting ideas that have been proven to me to be false or have not given me any reason to believe them?


and as I said, in the first part of my first reply, they can be quite useful, notably in today society, as long as they are, of course, well-reasoned, and properly understood, as a tool of psychology)


How is faith useful? Faith cannot build a bridge, faith cannot write a computer program, faith cannot help me gain knowledge about how to get what I want, faith cannot give me self esteem. Faith is, by definition, lying to yourself about existence.

Faith as a tool of psychology? You bet. It has been used many times by people (like Communists, Nazis, Fascists, Popes, Dictators etc) to get people to reject reality and turn off their minds. The result is always death and misery. Sometimes not strictly physical death but death of their minds and turn people into mindless cattle.


, that is, to try to protect yourself, with prejudices, and indeed, erroneous beliefs, which is what you are trying to avoid (which is indeed very good).


If you are saying that learning about differing faiths as a way to understand them and thereby giving you protection against them, then I agree. But to believe in faith, is a horrible waste of a life because it can give you nothing of value in this life, because it is not real.


(I hope you are alright, with me being a bit direct).


Ditto.



posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 07:30 PM
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Thank you all very much. There are certainly some interesting things to think about thus far. I will go ahead and answer myself, but before I do, I will say that my view that I have gained NOT from the words of another, but from EXPERIENCE, is closest, if not alike altogether to coolhandluke's.

I found this same deep Wisdom in the Tanakh. Faith destroys because it cuts off knowledge.

Standing in the midst of the circle is as destructive as blind faith and it disregards our purpose of being here.. to experience and to learn understanding through those experiences. If you stand still, you miss out on creation. If you believe something blindly and it cuts you off from knowledge, true knowledge (which in essence is common sense and mutual respect for youself and others), you perish having never known Life.

Standing still and and believing blindly have been the root of the problems in this world. This is Truth. We create the mess by being ignorant and we do not fix it by standing still.

I will answer my questions in the next post.




[edit on 1-2-2009 by justamomma]



posted on Feb, 1 2009 @ 07:58 PM
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What is faith to you?

*I view faith in two ways. 1) blind faith is ignorant. 2) Faith based in Truth is wisdom.

blind faith: EXAMPLE THAT I USED ON MY TEACHERS OFTEN WHEN THEY SAID TO BELIEVE IN JESUS:

Teacher: when you go to sit in a chair, you know that chair is going to hold you up; that is the same thing with Jesus. You trust him to hold you up.
Me: err... you just looked and saw the chair, I don't see Jesus.. there *is* a difference.
Teacher: yes, but I am still trusting it to hold me up.
Me: because you saw it there and since most chairs hold people up, it was not a blind leap of faith.
Teacher: you are missing the point.
Me: No ma'am, you *see* the chair... you do not doubt that it *is* there BECAUSE you are seeing it and therefore you have at least a bit of a reason for trusting it to hold you up based on prior chair experiences. I am not sure how that is comparable with trusting in a man in whom I have never met and have no proof other than a book that man wrote and told me to believe or else. I just do not understand and if I lie and say I do, then I am also going against the content of the book. It is all contradicting itself.
Teacher (stern look.. I often knew i should have shut up, but this was being taught to us from childhood and it seemed like brainwashing): go to the principal's office since clearly you do not care to learn today.. *again*.

I always thought that was funny... I asked very valid questions and they shut me down, meanwhile, I was the one accused of not wanting to learn, along with being scolded and punished in front of my peers. I find it to be *very* dangerous.


Is it faith that saves a person or knowledge?

To answer this though, you must first answer, what is it that you are being saved from?

I believe that we are saved from ignorance. I believe that this actually happens more effectively by walking through "hell"... I do not believe that Hell is a place of fire and damnation in the sense that it is thought of today, but I actually believe that it is more literal.. .the view today is imaginary.

Right now, many are in hell.... on this earth and it is very much fire and damnation. They are the living dead and the hell would better be labeled ignorance. Look around on this board and read the posts. Who is happy? The person grounded in TRUE knowledge which saves them fom hell aka iggnorance. It is to realize the purpose of this Life and it is to NOT deny the experience, but to approach it with both common sense and mutual respect. This is salvation!!

What is it that you are putting your faith in?

This will answer my 2nd definition of faith. True faith. True faith is not based on ignorance. It is having faith in the process and meeting it as it is with true knowledge. True knowledge is right now.... not then, and not later. That is the kind of faith that I have... in the process. I know G.d quite personally from the path that, looking back on, I can see has been carefully laid out for this purpose. I see the confirmation in the Word of the Tanakh (though, the Tanakh is the confirmation and not the Source).

Can faith bring about true change in your life? If it can, please explain how?

Only the 2nd kind of faith can bring about change in my life. The first kind will cause me to perish without ever having known Life. The 2nd kind is Life.

If what your faith is in were to be proven wrong, where would that leave you?

The kind of faith that I subscribe to can not be proven wrong. It is, again, trusting in the process. When the process is over... I have lost nothing, but rather have gained Life and a Name by living in the Now rather than in the past or in the future. I am taking part in the creation process as it is happening.

Is doubt wrong? If you think so, why?

Not at all as long as I am doubting wisely. I do not doubt the Creator or the process of creation. I doubt man's interpretations.... until they ring of truth which is in my heart. I doubt religions and I doubt conspiracy theories. I do not doubt Life and my role in it.

What is absolute Truth?

Now... this very second is Truth and what I do with it is up to me.. will I spend this moment wisely or will I squander it away by standing still, believing for something better in the future, or living in fear? Not me!

Is your faith grounded in that absolute Truth and if you think so, how do you know this?

Yes it is. As I said, I have faith in this moment because I know 100% it is in my posession. I no longer have the last moment and I have no guarantees of the next moment. But right now, this moment, I do have. This moment is Life and Salvation.

Can faith bring about Peace in this world? If so, how? If not, why?

If more people would quit giving their faith over to what does not exist, the past and the future, and realize that Life is NOW... then yes, this 2nd kind of faith can bring about Peace because people would be more aware of the ENORMOUS impact they are making in the creation process.


Do you think the following statement is correct? Why or why not?
Reason is our soul's left hand, Faith her right. ~John Donne

I do.. and this is actually spoken of in the Tanakh. Judgement is the left hand and Mercy is the right. This is how we make this moment become Life. Common sense is the Left and mutual respect (aka common courtesy) is the Right. It is this simple... and this is the Light of Peace... thus, Peace is far from most in this world.




[edit on 1-2-2009 by justamomma]



posted on Feb, 2 2009 @ 04:52 AM
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Originally posted by bsbray11
[...] if I had to try to pinpoint one duality that is both practical and dividing of "good" and "bad," it would be what people call "service to self" and "service to others." You are either an entropic process that only wastes energy, ie you are selfish, or you are a very giving person with living energies and a lightning rod to our absolution and union with Everything. But if you aspire to the latter then don't neglect yourself first, not merely for yourself, but for the betterment of others.


There is no selfishness that is bad. You said it yourself «don't neglect yourself». This is a basic religious prejudice, which can easily be aimed at controlling others («This is for the greater good, don't be selfish!»).

The problem, in today society, is certainly not selfishness (nor egocentrism, nor individualism). It is, simply, complete insanity. People don't reflect, don't reason, don't analyze, and they cause problems, for everyone, themselves included, often immediately. How can it be selfishness, when you are just destroying yourself, and the rest of the world (where you are living in), in the process?

As for the rest, the idea of «service», notably «to others», and, even more, the idea of «union with everything» (the «all together» idea), are quite problematic, as far as individualism is concerned. Global peace is, of course, fundamental, but it is in no way, contradictory, to independence, which is even very good, for this global peace (which is, first and foremost, the peace of each one).

More importantely, it does not answer anything, as to what is positive, or negative, in this «service». You are only describing a process. What are these «living energies»? what is the «union with everything»? Where does this lead to? Why would you do this?

As most people who think a bit about it, you are still missing a few steps of reason, to properly anchor your ideas, in pure materialism. The text you quote, destabilize a lot, without much reason (which, again, can easily lead to vulnerability, and control, in reaction to the fear).



Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke
There is no escape from cause and effect no matter how much wishing you do


Except for a few details (on origin, notably), a god (which sure is a belief among various others), can very well exist. If you cannot accept this possibility, you are only rejecting a possible truth. «Cause and effect», sure is not only «what you observe».


Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke
Why? What is wrong with accepting the world around me and rejecting ideas that [...] have not given me any reason to believe them?


I am, of course, not telling you should believe in them, I'm telling you a good belief, is an absolute possibility, and negating its possibility, is simply an error of reason, and makes you vulnerable (insecurity/unstability/uncertainty -your *belief* in it not being possible, being shattered), if something related to it, ever happened. You can well consider, without believing in it.


Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke

Originally posted by Senatsu Sakizakura
that is, to try to protect yourself, with prejudices, and indeed, erroneous beliefs, which is what you are trying to avoid (which is indeed very good).


If you are saying that learning about differing faiths as a way to understand them and thereby giving you protection against them, then I agree.


This was the end of a sentence (sorry for my long parenthesis). I said you were *believing* in the impossibility of absolue possibilities (that is, you have prejudices, and erroneous beliefs, as negating an absolute belief, is erroneous), to try to protect yourself from today religions (which, as I said, sure have nothing much to do with serious beliefs, and they generally even just contradict themselves, even fundamentally).



posted on Feb, 2 2009 @ 05:13 AM
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this following statement is non-religious..keep that in mind.

"You can wish in one hand, and crap in the other, see which one gets filled first"



posted on Feb, 2 2009 @ 05:28 AM
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Originally posted by justamomma
As I said, I have faith in this moment because I know 100% it is in my posession.


Did you ever thought seriously, about the idea of «reality breakdown»? Like the possibility you were a dream character, or a computer program, and you would just disappear, in an instant, maybe very soon, forever, with absolutely no control on anything?

I'm not trying to frighten you, of course (feel free to reply, or contact me in private, if you want to discuss things in a bit more details, although, as I said, I'm working on a far more global presentation of these ideas), but, as «bsbray11», you are running away from the fear of not having any control on your life, of «things you do not see», which you attribute mainly to today religions, apparently, from your problematic childhood experiences (which is indeed quite classic, and I do have a few experiences myself, although it did went a bit better, which enabled me to reflect on it, a bit more tranquilly).

The truth, is absolute uncertainty, on most daily things. The solution, is a good framework of reason (and there sure are a number of certain ideas, which are quite helpful, to feel more secure, stable, and certain), leading to the full consciousness and acception, of this uncertainty, reinforcing independence, force, and individuality. From there, although you sure should primarily aim for the idealistic society, for a very good framework of tranquillity, you can detach yourself quite a bit, while limiting the risk of «breaking», in case «anything problematic happened».

It sure is not easy to accept this uncertainty, fully, but if you don't, you are simply wrong, as this uncertainty is here, now, everywhere, and it makes you vulnerable, if anything problematic happened, because, as said to «bsbray11», your belief in your control on your life, would be quite shattered (although you can, of course, be a bit more flexible than that, but it would still be problematic, and anyway, you are wrong, and you could be more right, feeling far more secure, stable, and certain, enabling far more complete fulfilment -well, surely not in today society, however, but you could at least have a far clearer picture of it, and even a few glimpses of this exaltation).


Originally posted by justamomma
If more people would quit giving their faith over to what does not exist, the past and the future, and realize that Life is NOW... then yes, this 2nd kind of faith can bring about Peace because people would be more aware of the ENORMOUS impact they are making in the creation process.


... And if not properly handled, feeling so bad, they might well, in reaction, feel even more prostrated, toward always more apathy, prostration, and procrastination. This is quite classic. A lot of people know, more or less, at least some of the problems, they are causing and perpetuating. It often crushes them. Yourself, as said to «bsbray11», might very well be strongly reacting, going from one extreme, to the other. Of course, by protecting yourself, in a bit more reasoned way, you sure can be a bit more tranquil, and continue this reflection process, and balance things out, but very few people really finalize this reflection, notably because of all our immediate problems.

Be careful to properly discover, all the nuances, of the truth. A partial truth, can often still cause a lot of problems.



Originally posted by justamomma
Common sense is the Left and mutual respect (aka common courtesy) is the Right.


How is respect, different, in any way, from «common sense»...?

[edit on 2-2-2009 by Senatsu Sakizakura]



posted on Feb, 2 2009 @ 06:47 AM
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Originally posted by Senatsu Sakizakura
How is respect, different, in any way, from «common sense»...?

[edit on 2-2-2009 by Senatsu Sakizakura]


Common courtesy goes hand in hand with common sense... it is the same as saying that mercy goes hand in hand with justice. No different

Justice is not true unless mercy is resting on the right. Common sense is not true without common courtesy being on the right.

You can *think* I am one sided in views and it will not make you wise or correct.

The path to peace is so simple that it is far from us right now because people are not seeking simple.. they are seeking escape, recognition (often through useless knowledge that they think makes them *so* wise, yet foolish is all they are because the obvious escapes them; they can not grasp it), etc...





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