Illuminati religious beliefs

Originally posted by Alchemist
Masonic Light~u are freemasonry??

I joined the Masons when I was a sophomore in college. I belonged to Phi Delta Theta, and many of our alumni were Masons, as was my father and grandfather. Also several of my professors were Phi Delta Thetans and Masons, and had organized a Square and Compass Club at our university for students and faculty who were Masons.
I joined the Scottish Rite and Shriners in my senior year, and York Rite after I graduated

Fiat Lvx.

sorry,what's mean "Phi Delta Theta"??

Originally posted by Alchemist
sorry,what's mean "Phi Delta Theta"??

My college fraternity.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Alchemist
Masonic Light~u are freemasonry??

I joined the Masons when I was a sophomore in college. I belonged to Phi Delta Theta, and many of our alumni were Masons, as was my father and grandfather. Also several of my professors were Phi Delta Thetans and Masons, and had organized a Square and Compass Club at our university for students and faculty who were Masons.
I joined the Scottish Rite and Shriners in my senior year, and York Rite after I graduated

Fiat Lvx.

It sounds like you got smart early in life Masonic Light. I recon I'm gonna have to reincarnate and do it all over again, with a much better start.

***Quote*** Our degree system is perhaps the most misunderstood aspect of our fraternity for non-members. Degrees do not denote rank. ***End Quote***
This is an out and out lie � there is a clear definition between hierarchy and Degree � for instance you cannot preside over a Chapter without having the minimum 18th Degree of Knight Rose Croix, as stated in Charles T McClenachans Book of the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry.

***Quote ***�Originally, Masonry had only three degrees: Apprentice, Fellow Craft (or Journeyman), and Master Mason. These three degrees constitute Ancient Craft Masonry, and all Third Degree Masons are full members of the fraternity.�
All other degrees from all other Rites are simply elaborations on the first three.*** End Quote***
FREEMASONRY (note the deceptive use of the irrelevant and ambiguous term �Masonry�) NEVER had only 3 Degrees, its earliest implementation was the French Rite of Perfection which had 22 Degrees.
Chevalier Ramsay, a Scots Jacobin who was originally a member of a Parisian Lodge anglicized the rite to create what is now called the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite in honor of his work.

The most important division in Freemasonry is between the Symbolic Degrees (1-3) and the Rite of Perfection (4-14), a member that has only attained the Blue degrees is actually not regarded as being a Mason by those of higher office, however he is allowed to believe he is.
The term �Mason� itself is explained by Albert Pike to be interchangeable with the word �Adept� or priest in the 28th Degree Knight of the Sun (Prince Adept). The basic premise of this degree is to explain that all religions are false, but they have been made so in order that the ignorant masses can be controlled while retaining the �true� religion for those intellectually empowered to comprehend the true nature of God.
The duty of a �Mason� is to shape the minds of those around him so that they can provide a vehicle to maintain the progression of the greater intellect of mankind.
However the word Mason can obviously be applied to someone who merely shapes the matter about him � a Master Mason.

Back to the Illuminati.
They were originally founded by Gallileo (the other one is a common misconception) when he was persecuted by the Church. The Illuminati means, literally, The Enlightened.
The original group sought to bring science as an opposite view to religion, they were comprised of the best scientists in the world.
They were created for underground meetings so as to get away from church suppresion...
The root of the world Lucifier means shining one, I believe, to do with being enlightened.
The word 'Satan', apparently, comes from the Islamic Shaitan, which the Church called the Illuminati when it spread to America a couple hundred years after being founded, Islamic being used because it was considered a dirty language.
The Church used this to create the misconception that the Illuminati are trying to take over the world with a New World Order and that they are a Satanic cult in the way we think of it. Technically, they are Satanic, but the world Satanic is defined by their activities, rather than their activities being defined by Satanic, (e.g. their activities are what the Church and common people modelled the word Satanic around).
They are not, unless they have changed in the last hundred years or so, devil worshippers. Technically, they worship Lucifier, in a way, because he is symbolic of light (e.g. science) being brought to the world.
The Church has made them appear like trying to take over the world and pass down their satanic rituals to everyone, however, the truth is, they are only set to create the downfall of the Church, by offering a different perspective on the Universe.

Back to the Thread topic:
From my research of the Illuminati, which is largely limited to Abbe Augustine Barruels "Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism" - Currently available from American Opinion Books (ISBN 1-892548-28-3), the overall deist belief of the Illuminati is not incompatible with Freemasonry as Freemasonry does not ultimately offer a final solution to the ultimate question but is designed to provide a vessel to discover it.
The Illuminist�s ultimate belief appears to correlate to an ideal put forward by Voltaire and others that rather than "God Creating the Universe" it is in fact the "Universe that is Creating God."
Strangely enough Albert Pike actually acknowledges certain parts of Barruel's story but concludes that the Illuminati are misunderstood, as are all great minds that strive after the great-unsolved question.
This is both mine and Barruel's most fundamental objection to Freemasonry, it has created a vessel which ultimately has no moral guides or standards for those who hold the reigns of the great force of blindly obedient servants.
The Illuminati on the other hand have both the desire to apply their �great experiment� and the means and methods to control Freemasonry as a secret society within a secret society.
The Illuminati could not survive on its own if it were not accorded the succor it has received from Freemasonry throughout the last 250 years.
When the Freemasons are week so is the Illuminati, it is a parasite that lives upon a parasite.
Ultimately the ideology of the Illuminati is to create a �Living God� of splendid pageantry to capture the minds and energies of the entire universe, drawing the energies of every star to face and worship a splendidly created God and thus bringing order from chaos to the Universe.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
***Quote*** Our degree system is perhaps the most misunderstood aspect of our fraternity for non-members. Degrees do not denote rank. ***End Quote***
This is an out and out lie � there is a clear definition between hierarchy and Degree � for instance you cannot preside over a Chapter without having the minimum 18th Degree of Knight Rose Croix, as stated in Charles T McClenachans Book of the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry.

You are confusing the issue; whether intentionally or not, I�m not sure. Bro. McClenachan correctly stated that to preside over a Chapter of Knights Rose Croix, one must himself be a Knight Rose Croix, which is the 18�. That�s not exactly rocket science.
What you seem to be confused on is the hierarchy issue. Chapters of Rose Croix are not superior to Lodges of Master Masons, and especially not to the Grand Lodge. If a Master Mason wants to join a Chapter of Rose Croix, and campaign to become the presiding officer of his Chapter, there�s nothing stopping him from doing so. But his honors as a Knight Rose Croix, or as Wise Master of his Chapter, does not grant him any rank or privilege in the Lodge, which recognizes no degree higher than Master Mason.

***Quote ***�Originally, Masonry had only three degrees: Apprentice, Fellow Craft (or Journeyman), and Master Mason. These three degrees constitute Ancient Craft Masonry, and all Third Degree Masons are full members of the fraternity.�
All other degrees from all other Rites are simply elaborations on the first three.*** End Quote***
FREEMASONRY (note the deceptive use of the irrelevant and ambiguous term �Masonry�) NEVER had only 3 Degrees, its earliest implementation was the French Rite of Perfection which had 22 Degrees.
Chevalier Ramsay, a Scots Jacobin who was originally a member of a Parisian Lodge anglicized the rite to create what is now called the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite in honor of his work.

That is incorrect. Modern Freemasonry was founded in London, England in 1717, and consisted of only 3 degrees, namely, Apprentice, Fellow Craft, and Master Mason. It was not until 1765 that the Rite of Perfection was instituted in France. The French Rite added 22 degrees to the original 3 degree York system.
Brother Michael Andrew Ramsay was indeed a member of the French Rite, but not the Scottish Rite. The French Rite had gone defunct, but its degrees were revised in 1801 in Charleston, South Carolina, USA, by 11 members of the Antient York Grand Lodge in Charleston. These 11 Brothers, added the 8 degrees of the French Philosophical Rite to the Rite of Perfection, ending with a 33 degree system. They then declared themselves the Supreme Council of the 33�, and elected Brother John Mitchell, one of the 11, as the first Grand Commander. Today, all regular Supreme Councils of the 33� in the world are descendents of the Mother Council at Charleston.

The most important division in Freemasonry is between the Symbolic Degrees (1-3) and the Rite of Perfection (4-14), a member that has only attained the Blue degrees is actually not regarded as being a Mason by those of higher office, however he is allowed to believe he is.

This is an outright lie. No one can be a Scottish Rite Mason unless he is a Master Mason in good standing in a regular Blue Lodge. If a Scottish Rite Brother becomes suspended or expelled in his Blue Lodge, he automatically becomes suspended in the Scottish Rite, as is outlined in Article XVII, Sec. 25 of the Statutes of the Supreme Council 33�.
As it was told to me when I joined the Scottish Rite: �The Scottish Rite cannot make a Brother more of a Mason than he already is; it can, however, make one a better Mason�.

The term �Mason� itself is explained by Albert Pike to be interchangeable with the word �Adept� or priest in the 28th Degree Knight of the Sun (Prince Adept). The basic premise of this degree is to explain that all religions are false, but they have been made so in order that the ignorant masses can be controlled while retaining the �true� religion for those intellectually empowered to comprehend the true nature of God.
The duty of a �Mason� is to shape the minds of those around him so that they can provide a vehicle to maintain the progression of the greater intellect of mankind.
However the word Mason can obviously be applied to someone who merely shapes the matter about him � a Master Mason.

The Degree of Prince Adept, of which I have served as Presiding Officer and am very familiar with, is a degree that teaches the basic tenets of the Kabbalah. Whether any particular religion is real or fake is not an issue in this or any other degree of Masonry. The purpose is to educate the Candidate, and if he truly receives intellectual or spiritual insight through it, so much the better.

Fiat Lvx.

The strange thing about this whole thread is that if anyone has copies of the texts I have stipulated then it is obvious that you are either grossly missinformed, lying or both.
You are however using the standard "I am a valid authority on this matter" ploy to overide written evidence.
But your deceptions are not really aimed at this thread which is really about the Illuminati, so I should really drop this subject line.
As a matter of inquiry into my reaserch on your cult, what Degree and Rite do you currently claim to have?

It seems to me the central cause of all of this information/disinformation, illuminati, NWO, Bush Gang, Reptilians, Satanists, elitism... I dont know what to #$#$en believe anymore...

one thing, END SECRECY.....

SECRETS are the WHOLE PROBLEM....

NO MORE SECRETS.... that will solve EVERYTHING...

Originally posted by MrNECROS
The strange thing about this whole thread is that if anyone has copies of the texts I have stipulated then it is obvious that you are either grossly missinformed, lying or both.

Au contraire. I have previously posted links wherein interested readers of this forum could read Pike online; I've also given links where traditional books can be ordered.

You are however using the standard "I am a valid authority on this matter" ploy to overide written evidence.

I have studied Pike, Freemasonry, Scottish Rite, Kabbalah, etc. for many years. I am not an all-knowing expert, but can surmise from your posts that you really have no idea what you're talking about. Therefore, I will suggest to interested parties that they themselves read the books in question, which will answer the question of which one of us is lying, and which is telling the truth, once and for all.

Fiat Lvx.

Actually you haven't provided any such things - you just flatly denied passages from Charles T McClenachan's Book.
You also stated in another forum that it is possible to confer all 29 of the higher degrees in 2 days, which would be an amazing effort considering the amount of reworking that would have to be done on the temple for each rite alone, let alone the candidate being able to memorise and perform all these degrees at a rate of one every 90 minutes with no sleep, food or restroom breaks!

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Actually you haven't provided any such things - you just flatly denied passages from Charles T McClenachan's Book.

I did no such thing; I merely pointed out that you had misinterpreted what you read. As I said in my post, Brother McClenachan was correct in stating that only a Knight Rose Croix can preside over a Chapter of Knights Rose Croix. Why do you think it is strange that someone who is not even a member of an organization would be disqualified from presiding over their meetings?

You also stated in another forum that it is possible to confer all 29 of the higher degrees in 2 days, which would be an amazing effort considering the amount of reworking that would have to be done on the temple for each rite alone, let alone the candidate being able to memorise and perform all these degrees at a rate of one every 90 minutes with no sleep, food or restroom breaks!

There is no memory work required in the Scottish Rite. It should be noted that Albert Pike himself went from the 4� to the 32� in about 15 seconds, simply by proclamation from Albert Mackey, who was serving as Grand Secretary of the Supreme Council.
Today in the U.S., all Scottish Rite degrees are bestowed at Reunions. Master Masons who hold the Third Degree are brought in as a class, and receive the degrees together, usually over two weekends.
Not all of the degrees are exemplified. The only degrees that are mandatory are the 4�, 14�, 18�, 30�, and 32�. The other degrees may be conferred in full form, or, to save time, the lecture may be read, and the Candidates invested with the degree by proclamation. My Scottish Rite Temple confers in full form the above degrees, along with 7 others. After being received into the 32�, the new Scottish Rite Brother may study the degree rituals that were not exemplified.
The reworking of the Lodge room is not difficult. Temples have a stage crew that change props and backdrops between degrees, or between different scenes in the same degree. We also have wardrobe departments who make sure the officers may quickly change costumes when needed, as well as lighting and sound departments. The degrees of the Rite are presented in the form of plays; one Candidate is chosen from the group to represent the entire class, while the other class members watch.
There are of course restroom and coffee breaks between degrees, and breakfast and lunch are served at the all-day Saturday sessions.

Fiat Lvx.

Actually the significant degrees of the Scottish Rite are 3rd, 5th, 7th, 8th, 10th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 18th, 19th, 21st, 25th, 28th and 30th.
During the riual for the presentation of the 32nd Degree �Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret� each of the 14 additional members present wears the jewel of each of these grades so that the candidate can reflect upon the moral of each of them, all of which have lead him to this final lesson.
This wouldn�t make any sense if he has only taken the degrees you mentioned.
Mind you, as you say, there is no memory work that I am aware of in some degrees, such as the 1st and 4th, however 28th Degree Knight of The Sun requires an immense amount and it normally takes several months for a candidate to learn the Monitors.

But carry on � I�m still at odds as to what your actual completed degree is, but each time you post more clues slip out.
So far I am guessing 8th Degree �Intendant of the Building.�

It helps if you own �The Book.�

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Actually the significant degrees of the Scottish Rite are 3rd, 5th, 7th, 8th, 10th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 18th, 19th, 21st, 25th, 28th and 30th.

All degrees are �significant�; however, the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite has no jurisdiction over the Third Degree, which, in English speaking countries, is controlled by Grand Lodges of the York Rite.
Article III, Section 2A of the Statutes of the Supreme Council 33� of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry for the Southern Jurisdiction of the United States reads as follows:

�The mandatory degrees are the Fourth, Fourteenth, Eighteenth, Thirtieth, and Thirty-second and they shall never be communicated except by the Sovereign Grand Inspector General or Deputy, and then only in unusual circumstances.�

By �communicated� is meant to declare someone initiated into a degree by proclamation, instead of ceremonial initiation, which is technically called �conferral�. The Scottish Rite is divided into 4 Subordinate Bodies: the Lodge of Perfection (which controls the 4�-14�), the Chapter of Rose Croix (15�-18�), the Council of Kadosh (19�-30�) and Consistory (31�-32�). The 4�, with which the Scottish Rite begins, must be conferred in full form, as well as the four degrees which govern the four Bodies (14�, 18�, 30�, 32�). The other degrees are optional, and are often rotated (i.e., in the spring reunion, degrees will be conferred that were not in the fall, and vice versa). This is a bit different in the U.K., where only the 18�, 30�, and 32� are conferred in full form, all others being by proclamation.

During the riual for the presentation of the 32nd Degree �Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret� each of the 14 additional members present wears the jewel of each of these grades so that the candidate can reflect upon the moral of each of them, all of which have lead him to this final lesson.
This wouldn�t make any sense if he has only taken the degrees you mentioned.

There is nothing in the Ritual of the 32� requiring any Officer or Brother to wear the Jewels of the preceding degrees. However, the Banners of the preceding degrees are presented. The degrees that are not conferred are explained in lectures, most of which were published in �Morals and Dogma� by Albert Pike, and thus make sense to the Initiate, although probably not to some guy on the Internet who has never been exposed to Freemasonry.

Mind you, as you say, there is no memory work that I am aware of in some degrees, such as the 1st and 4th, however 28th Degree Knight of The Sun requires an immense amount and it normally takes several months for a candidate to learn the Monitors.

There is indeed memory work in the First Degree. The first three Degrees are the only degrees that require such. They are esoteric, and technically, secret. However, the Catechism of the higher degrees of the Scottish Rite were published by Albert Pike to the general public, and are thus no longer secret. Therefore, they are not required to be memorized, only studied. In the Scottish Rite, the only memorization required is that done by the Officers to learn their parts, not as a prerequisite for degree advancement.

But carry on � I�m still at odds as to what your actual completed degree is, but each time you post more clues slip out.
So far I am guessing 8th Degree �Intendant of the Building.�

I received the 4�-32� at a Fall Reunion in 1994. I was decorated with the rank and investiture of Knight Commander of the Court of Honour by the Supreme Council 33� in 1999.

It helps if you own �The Book.�

We�re sure it does.

Fiat Lvx.

Do actually know what the 32nd Degree is?
I am not unexposed to Freemasonry - I have been targeted by your cult for nearly 3 years and have seen pretty much everything from the ground level.
I also own a copy of "The Book of Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite Freemasonry" which gives the details for all degrees 4-33.

Want to have a game of guess the ritual?
I'll start.
I'll post you a question about Freemasonry and you answer with the answer and post your own question about the same degree.
There is not a lot of point to this - I just want to see if you are genuinally ignorant, lying, or the outside chance I may be wrong about you.
I do not claim to have a comprehensive knowledge of Masonry, I have only been researching it for 12 months, but I am yet to meet a Mason who knows more about it than myself.

Question 1:
Although it is not worn during the ritual itself - what are the 2 motifs displayed on a 32nd Degree Apron and what color is the apron itself?

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Do actually know what the 32nd Degree is?

The 32� is the highest degree conferred by a Consistory of Princes of the Royal Secret. I thought you already knew that?

I am not unexposed to Freemasonry - I have been targeted by your cult for nearly 3 years and have seen pretty much everything from the ground level.
I also own a copy of "The Book of Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite Freemasonry" which gives the details for all degrees 4-33.

There are many books that give descriptions of the degrees, some accurate, some not. I think a lot of people on this forum have read such books.

I do not claim to have a comprehensive knowledge of Masonry, I have only been researching it for 12 months, but I am yet to meet a Mason who knows more about it than myself.

You have been researching for 12 months....I�ve studied the subject in depth for many years, both from the inside as a Mason, and from the outside, before I became a Mason.
I have previously pointed out the reasons your research is flawed. For example, you were unaware that Scottish Rite Masonry confers its degrees upon candidates at Reunion sessions. Before 2001, it was a prerequisite that one hold either the 32� in the Scottish Rite or Knight Templar Degree in the York Rite in order to become a Shriner. Beginning in the late 1800�s, the Scottish Rite began conferring its degrees in a matter of a couple of weekend sessions, so that it could immediately be followed by the Shrine ceremonial.
You�ve also demonstrated your misunderstanding by assuming someone could hold only the 8� in the Scottish Rite. The 4�-13� are prerequisites to the Degree of Perfection, being the 14�, and it is mandatory for anyone who joins the Scottish Rite to proceed to at least the 14� (in the UK, one must proceed to at least the 18�).

Question 1:
Although it is not worn during the ritual itself - what are the 2 motifs displayed on a 32nd Degree Apron and what color is the apron itself?

The Apron is placed upon and worn by the Candidate during his initiation into the 32�. The officers and brethren do not wear Aprons in the degree, but instead wear the caps that designate their degree.
The official Apron of the 32� is of white silk, 12 inches square, edged with gold lace. On the flap is an All Seeing Eye irradiated, stationed over a Teutonic Cross which bears six flags. On the body of the Apron is the symbol called the Camp which is the Tracing Board of the Degree. Photos of the Apron may be seen in �A Bridge To Light� by Dr. Rex R. Hutchens, 33�, Grand Cross, and in �Vested In Glory: The Regalia of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, S.J., U.S.A.�, by Dr. Jim Tresner, 33�, Grand Cross.
The cap of the 32� is a black oval, 6 inches high, with two golden bands. In the front of the cap is a golden Double Headed Eagle, above which is the Greek letter Delta, wherein is enclosed the number �32�. These are the caps we wear for our meetings, as well as in public functions such as parades and funerals. The Cap is to the Scottish Rite Mason what the Fez is to us when we meet in the aspect of Shriners.

You can see a photo of the 32� Cap here:
www.allthingsmasonic.com...
and other Scottish Rite Caps with an essay explaining them here:
www.srmason-sj.org...

The Apron and other regalia of the 22� through 32� can be seen here:
www.newlondonregalia.com...

Fiat Lvx.




[Edited on 1-5-2004 by Masonic Light]

Incidentally, my birthday is May 23.
Those of you familiar with Illuminati theory know that 5 is a recurring integer in their rites and existance.
5 / 2 + 3. 5/23. May 23.
May 23 is the Illuminati's Holy Day, as well.

How's that for a Conspiracy theory?

Correct, thankyou for all your your pomp and ceremony - now the second part of the question - how are the 14 significant degrees represented in the map of the Camp?
(Remember you claim that there are only 4).

Sorry - I missed part of the answer in amongst all the gobbley gook you pasted.
Though it is possible you have a slightly different apron in your branch, traditionally it has the double-headed eagle on the flap with the 6 banners of the 6 series of the Scottish Rite and is edged with black not gold.
But at least you got the main motif right which is what I �m interested in.

I don�t suppose you could post things with less padding please � you have a tendency to repeat yourself in postings � this is a message thread �you are just making it unnecessarily long � maybe to make the whole topic boring and unreadable?