Israel vows "disproportionate" response to rockets

Originally posted by Dermo

Originally posted by ShiftTrio
reply to post by Dermo

 

Forceful? Israel has nothing to do with it , it was voted on and given to them by the UN. They Jews didn't take it over.

You are dead right, BUT Israeli settlements have expanded at an enormous rate, forcefully in many cases, this is what I am saying.

I never mentioned anything about the creation of the Israeli state.

And why was that land taken? What caused this, was it the 6 day war? Seems like again, the Arab world used this as a reason. except that day they got their asses handed to them and they took strategic locations. It does happen in war when someone is attacked.

On a side note, unlike other threads of this subject no ones going with personal attacks and such.. So refreshing =)

Israel has brought this onto themselves. If someone killed a member of my family, I sure as hell would want revenge.

Originally posted by Mynaeris
Even the tunnels of Gaza have been compared to those used by Jews to smuggle food and other essential goods into the Ghetto from the "Aryan side".

The ILLEGAL tunnels are smuggling in weapons and ammo. Even Hamas admits this. They are not used for any kind of humanitarian purpose.

Aljazeera

Oh .. that's the problem .. you are quoting AlJazeera.
Mynaeris ... they are a joke.
They are the World Nut Daily of the Arab world.

reply to post by FlyersFan



I believe the "disproportionate" was actually Olmert.

I am not for Hamas or even Palestine, and not Israel either. But maybe if Israel was asked to disarm their nuclear weapons, and for the world to stop disproportionately supplying Israel with military and financial assiatnce and just leave the two sides to kick each others b*tts on a level field maybe then the problem in the middle east will be solved.

Instead Palestine remains a ghetto and keeps growing smaller and smaller while the big boy with all the money keeps beating down any unrest.

Maybe the world should stop compalining about the economic crisis and just let the governments do whatever they want because THEY have the power.

Originally posted by Dermo
reply to post by spliff4020

 

Yea, wipe them out. Thats the right way to do it. Invade anyone that you don't agree with, simply because you have more money than them.

All Palestinians are scum?? Thats a nice generalization you have going there.

You obviously have never had to deal with any kind of sectarianism, occupation or ethnic cleansing. Forgive me for having a soft spot for them but my country and family history is rife with it.

Palestinians/Egyptians.. whatever you want to call them, were displaced in the first place. Obviously there will be some extremists looking for revenge.

This might be a couple of hundred people in the whole region. That doesn't mean the rest deserve the crap they get.

You are so right my Irish bro and it about time people tell it like it is, When Govements do things like this just because they can and then feed us all # and hope that the world will just let it go unoticed and the MSM will only tell us half truths like they did in the North of Ireland.

Wake up people, People are getting killed here and just because of where they come from, It has to stop. In the Gaza strip they have no food or water and are lucky to get eletric, is this the world we should be living in?
We all sit here on our PC's talking about this and that, but in the real world people are been killed and there is no one who can say thats ok.

What is really going on here , we are not beening told the whole story.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Yep the article was from Aljazeera - by a Jewish writer , where he explains that although all of this is true that the jews suffered much greater pains in the ghettoes of Warsaw than blacks in South Africa or the Palestinians in Gaza.

Originally posted by ShiftTrio
Peace puts the Arab world in a bad spot, and leave the terrorists and all the funding that goes with it out of a job. its as simple as that.

A very very valid point. The people in Gaza are taught that Israel is the enemy because of the occupation and the resentment has been festering for decades.

Arms dealing and terrorism in the region is a business, I never really looked at it from that perspective. Thanks for pointing that out.

But the "Palestinians" still got the raw deal after the creation of Israel, that is fact.

Originally posted by ShiftTrio
On a side note, unlike other threads of this subject no ones going with personal attacks and such.. So refreshing =)

I know mate, It makes a big difference when you can actually learn about peoples perspectives instead of getting abused for yours.

reply to post by Dermo


Off topic real quick How do I join the Drunken Leprechaun Club =)

And I agree the people of Palestine need a savior, or to say enough is enough and take control of their country for peace again just my 2 cents..

I feel horrible about the kids.. sometimes this world really sucks..

Originally posted by Mynaeris
just leave the two sides to kick each others b*tts on a level field maybe then the problem in the middle east will be solved.

I absolutely agree with ya! Everyone should butt out and let them hammer the snot out each other. Get it over with once and for all and then we can all move on!

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The ILLEGAL tunnels are smuggling in weapons and ammo. Even Hamas admits this. They are not used for any kind of humanitarian purpose.

So am I to understand that if they received their weapons from another country legally, the way Israel gets billions of dollars in military aid from America alone , would that be okay then?

Also let's be honest here if by some strange and miraculous event tHamas with the force of "Allah" kicks the living bejeezus out of Israel, how long do you think Israel would wait before using nukes?

Originally posted by ShiftTrio
reply to post by Dermo

 

Off topic real quick How do I join the Drunken Leprechaun Club =)

- You need to wear a little green dicky-bow, green knee length breeches and be drunk over 35% of the time.

And I agree the people of Palestine need a savior, or to say enough is enough and take control of their country for peace again just my 2 cents..

I feel horrible about the kids.. sometimes this world really sucks..

Its an awkward situation, sickening. Its a pity it has to happen.

I absolutely agree with ya! Everyone should butt out and let them hammer the snot out each other. Get it over with once and for all and then we can all move on!

In fairness, It would be a bit of a one sided fight.

Originally posted by Mynaeris
So am I to understand that if they received their weapons from another country legally,

I was saying that the tunnels are used for weapons and not for food or medicine. They aren't humanitarian tunnels. They arm Hamas who hides behind the Palestinians civilians and the civilian infrastructure.

how long do you think Israel would wait before using nukes?

If they were being attacked and were not going to win then it would be their right to blast the hell out of their attacker. If that means nukes, then that's their right. It would be the Palestinians own suicidal fault for attacking a nuclear country.

In the case of defense - If you've got 'em ... use 'em.

I have a concern, it is, Israel are acting more and more like the rabid dog as time goes on. I still firmly believe that Gaza was iether a means of honing the Israeli killing skills or it was a carrot to get Iran involved.

It didnt work the first time, so maybe Israel is upping the anti. I have no political thoughts or views on Jewish or Arab wishes for the ME, but I am sick seeing kids die because of this.

Wouldnt it be obscene if gods chosen people were the race that started the war that ended the human race.


Respects

Originally posted by Dermo
In fairness, It would be a bit of a one sided fight.

Yep. But so what? That would teach the smaller guy not to pick fights with someone who is bigger and stronger. Darwinism at it's best.

There is no such thing as proportionate warfare. Never has been. It something Israel haters just made up. Olmert is sort of messing with the media in that quote. Given their complete and constant hypocrisy.

Please, give us an example of "proportionate warfare". Better yet, tell us why you think its a good idea for Israel to randomly launch artillery in to Gaza.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Mynaeris
just leave the two sides to kick each others b*tts on a level field maybe then the problem in the middle east will be solved.

I absolutely agree with ya! Everyone should butt out and let them hammer the snot out each other. Get it over with once and for all and then we can all move on!

I wonder if you would say that if you lived there? This is not just a middle east event, Evey nation has there hand in it one way or another. All the big powers of the world are changing and after most world recession 's there is a war to get things back to they way they want.
Dont be fooled, this is just one part of the picture, someting big is coming.

This topic comes down to one thing, "what came first the chicken or the egg?"

So many defend Israel for their strikes on the Palestinians because the Palestinians fired rockets into Israel.

Others defend Palestine because Israel is a state created by the west on Palestinian lands.

So which is it? Who is it that is truly at fault here?

My personal take is that everyone involved is at fault, only to differing degrees.

I do not side with the Palestinians but I sympathize with them.

Israel was created on their lands (you may say this was originally Jewish land but I am talking recent history here). The west created the Zionist state and backs it up. Rather than acting in good faith towards the Palestinians the Israeli government has systematically disenfranchised them, boxed them in, restricted their access to natural resources such as water, limited their mobility, limited the amount of good and vital supplies to enter their territories, and under the guise of oppression waged a systematic holocaust on the Palestinian people.

It is my opinion that the attacks (meager at best) that Israel faces is a response tot heir systematic destruction of a people and their claims to their land.

An good example of what I am talking about can be seen in this map:

link

Another good link with maps and information on this is:

Map of Israeli Settlements and Restrictions of Palestinian control in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, late 2002.


Another telling piece of this puzzle is this:




Does any of this excuse the Palestinians for attacking the Israelis? In my opinion no, but it explains why the Palestinians can't be beat into submission either, this is a life or death struggle for their culture, their nation.

My opinion is that the Palestinians should look to Gandhi and Martin Luther King for guidance. I believe a true non-violent campaign of satiagraha is the answer to their oppression at the hands if the Israeli government.

Disproportionate response has been the MO of Israel for a long time it is nothing new.

It is this behavior that transcends open warfare on the part of Israel that could untimely invalidate their actions, their campaigns, and their self proclaimed right to what is not theirs.

I would like to see this modern crusade end.

[edit on 1-2-2009 by Animal]

Israels probably firing the missiles themselves to give em reason to attack the helpless civilians in Gaza.

Israel want all the land, and slowly but surely they are getting it.

reply to post by FlyersFan


You do realize that nukes don't just affect their targets but also miles and miles around the target. Hello cancer for the middle east.

Israel isn't powerful because of something they were doing there. They are powerful because the rest of the world supplies them with military equipment. if I were Palestinian I would consider their weapons to be illegal and the nuclear armament excessive by world standards. Instead Israel keeps bellyacheing about Iran getting ANY nuclear weapons. Israel has more nuclear weapons than MOST western countries.



[edit on 1-2-2009 by Mynaeris]