Is it time to ditch the bible?

Originally posted by badmedia

In fact, Jesus himself would dismiss these religions.

Does the bible not dismiss all religions?
If that is the case, what gives Jesus the right to do this?

My mind goes back to high-school, and I remember one of my student friends suggesting the biggest dictator to set foot on this planet was Jesus H Christ.

Spose when you read the bible and you are told how to live your life, my student friend made a valid point.

edited for grammatical error

[edit on 1/2/2009 by Thistled]

Originally posted by Enthralled Fan
Ok, you seem to be a person who likes to label. Your use of hate is something I don't agree with. Hate is an evil word not to be taken lightly. I personally don't hate anything, although I might strongly dislike some things. Am I supposed to be impressed about your foe list?

It is your perception that I hate. I don't hate, I educate. I'm blunt and brutally honest with my opinion. In my opinion, it is disrespectful to not be honest. I don't live in that layer of BS/lies that keeps things together in this world. Foe list had nothing to do with impressing you, are you suggesting I need to impress you? I was simply trying to show that the stereotypes that keep getting thrown on me are baseless.

That is your opinion of people in regards to religion. Having grown up in the faith that I was raised in, I consider myself lucky to have been able to break away from tradition, in what I now believe. Some people are not so fortunate. I would not consider them being of a low level of thinking, although they might be brainwashed.

Sorry, but being on the otherside is not automatically a higher level of thinking. When it comes to people stuck in "faith", I completely agree. That is the reason those people are on my foes list, because I am pretty brutal against the church and they don't like it. But I am also this brutal when it comes to atheists as well. Because honestly, it's the same low level of thinking.

People aren't making their choices based on understanding in either case. Really, they are just making the choice based on acceptance of the church/bible. Both for and against, it's has nothing to do with the understandings contained. And all the while the actual understandings - which are the important thing to being with - are ignored and thrown away in the process.

You can catch more flies with honey, than vinegar, if you're trying to make a point.

I'm not trying to catch flies or people, but instead free them. The last thing I want is someone to accept what I say as truth. My wife gets mad at me for talking about this stuff on here, but not with her. And it's because she would just accept what I said, instead of getting her own understanding. Here, I don't really have to worry about that, because I'm just some random guy on the net to everyone. So such is the problem to being with. People need to get their own understandings and quit accepting. But this thread is not about understandings, it was about portraying the bible in a specific way for an agenda.

Originally posted by badmedia
But this thread is not about understandings, it was about portraying the bible in a specific way for an agenda.

Agenda? What's my agenda?

I ask a simple question - hence the topic title.

Originally posted by Thistled
Does the bible not dismiss all religions?
If that is the case, what gives Jesus the right to do this?

Actually, Jesus even warns of the Christian religion. Look at it, it is a religion put up in his name, kills everyone that doesn't agree with it and so on.

My mind goes back to high-school, and I remember one of my student friends suggesting the biggest dictator to set foot on this planet was Jesus H Christ.

I'm glad you said that. I hope L.I.B. happens upon this thread(haven't seen her lately though). Because you prove exactly what I have been pointing out. People do not associate what Jesus said or his understandings with Jesus. Instead, they associate the church and the bible as being a representative of Jesus. IT IS NOT. It is the anti-Christ religion. Look for yourself. The things the church does is stuff that goes against what Jesus says. Jesus even tells them not to make leaders of themselves at all, what does that tell you? Why do you think he was killed? Because he threatened the powers of the time. It's written down specifically. The same powers that were present when the church came along.

Spose when you read the bible and you are told how to live your life, my student friend made a valid point.

Actually, I didn't learn from the bible. See, I am not someone who was brainwashed into it. I don't believe in dogmas, I believe in understanding. I was taught seperate of the bible, in a way you'd never believe. In my teachings I was taught not to focus on the idols or symbolism, but instead on the understanding, message and the things it stood for.

What has been done with religion is what Jesus warned about. It is easy to "prophecy" because it's the status quo. It's how corruption of these things always work.

Look at US politics, probably the same in your country. These politicians get up there, they have all this symoblism and stuff, talk about how they love the country, talk about how they love the principles of the country, and they give the IMAGE of being good. But then in their actions they do exactly the opposite.

This is what you called wolves in sheeps clothing. And this happens in politics, in religion and so on. And if people don't wake up and start realizing this then they are screwed. People cling to the symbolism, hold it up proudly and then proceed to lead people away from the things it stood for. Look at Jesus, and then look at what the church does. Over and over it happens. And when you "ditch the bible", you are actually ditching it not based on the understanding it gives, but rather based on the manipulations. And in that way, it's the same low level of thinking as the people who accepted the manipulations.

Here's a thread about wolves in sheeps clothing and what it is.

www.belowtopsecret.com...

If you can't recognize it in the bible, if you can't recognize it in politics, then sorry you just plain out don't get it.

Originally posted by Thistled
Agenda? What's my agenda?

I ask a simple question - hence the topic title.

Come now, I don't live in that layer of BS. I'm in the real world. We all have agendas of some sort. My agenda is to try and get people to ask questions that bring about understanding. Not afraid to admit it either. It's my purpose, it's what I do. If I couldn't do it, I wouldn't post here.

Kinda like at work. Hire someone you end up not liking, so you are extra hard on them and look for ways to fire them. Have someone you like, and that person can do the same things and not get fired. Sure, the reasons you gave for firing the person you didn't like may be "valid", but of course the real reason you fired them was because you didn't like them.

If you wanna operate on this level, have at it. But I don't, and I won't accept it either.

[edit on 1-2-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia

If you have consciousness, then you have the spirit of god within you. I don't know if everyone actually is conscious, but I assume as much.

I say essence, as the spirit is so powerful, and is an instrument. He used his spirit to create, and left behind living essence or energy to maintain life. It is much easier to explain scientifically. There is a difference between life energy force, and spirit. In my trying to make sense of this; spirit is a tool that God uses to exert overt power, like electricity, with whom & what he chooses.

Look at it this way - all living things benefit by this essence or energy. The good, bad and indifferent. The spirit is separate and goes beyond the energy that supports life; human, animal, mammal and vegetation. Whereas the spirit is like a laser gun (a separate force)and can be directed at will, to do his will.

You may not agree, but that is how I have made sense of it. The other is too elusive for me, and too simple.

God cannot be in each of us because: he cannot reside in human dysfunction, His perfection would not allow it. Nor could we endure his perfect energy which would destroy us. The shaming exposure alone, would implode us! We are just lemmings, after all.

The pure cannot reside with the impure, Nor are WE Gods as Neo-Platonists and others since have taught. Free will must be allowed to enter the picture, and heaven's knows we are very imperfect and as gods have failed miserably!

There is a scripture that says "God is dynamic energy." We cannot see God and live. It shoots the "God is in us" - theory!

God is a God of science and therefore, there are laws in the Universe we cannot transcend, this being one of them. It is also logical that atheists would have a difficult time with New Age, as I do, for it cannot be supported by science (also a creation of God).

Anyway, these are my thoughts. Thank you for your response!

reply to post by Thistled

So because I no longer have faith, I am guessing I am atheist, but that does not make me a bible basher (so to speak) and most certainly not ignorant.

Everyone has the right to have faith in who / whatever, I respect that.

The bible is old, out of date, and not applicable to the world of today. IMO.

Why do you have to be atheist? Just because you don't have "faith" does not mean you don't have God. Unless, you choose not to? IMO it is now becomming hard to have God within religion!! Now, I will get the hate mail!

I don't belong to any religion as I once did. And anyone here would tell you I rail against religion. Maybe you read some of my threads? I don't like black and white theories. They don't tend to work, anyway.

I wrote a post earlier about my take on the Bible, a bit anyway.

Badmedia is not a bad character, and is more open than what you realize. Maybe having a bad day? He is discovering life outside religion and is coming to his/her revelations, also.

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by Thistled
Agenda? What's my agenda?

I ask a simple question - hence the topic title.

Come now, I don't live in that layer of BS. I'm in the real world.

[edit on 1-2-2009 by badmedia]

My world is very very real, and there are no layers of BS. I assure you, there is no agenda, but you assume athiests have an agenda.

Seriously badmedia, I do not have an agenda.

Thanks for the posts cuz they are interesting.

reply to post by MatrixProphet


Thanks for raising the point - within 10 minutes of the original post I am branded an atheist, and I go along with it because I guess I am now.

Am I?

reply to post by Thistled

Thanks for raising the point - within 10 minutes of the original post I am branded an atheist, and I go along with it because I guess I am now.

Am I?

We are not victims but are volunteers!!

Why don't you express a little of what you do believe? I for one am interested.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
I say essence, as the spirit is so powerful, and is an instrument. He used his spirit to create, and left behind living essence or energy to maintain life. It is much easier to explain scientifically. There is a difference between life energy force, and spirit. In my trying to make sense of this; spirit is a tool that God uses to exert overt power, like electricity, with whom & what he chooses.

I tend to look at things in terms of perspective. What defines an "individual", is the "individuals" perspective. As the perspective changes, the person will also change accordingly. I see the father as being the sum of all perspective, the "big picture", the only true perspective, etc. And I see the sons/daughters, as being of the father, but of course under a limited, unique, individual perspective.

Science I think is a perspective. I don't think the universe actually moves at all. I think consciousness is the only true "energy". And really it's just a matter of how you want to look at it.

Example. Take 2 balls, put them in room with no background. both Balls are moving back and forth parallel to each other. Set your perspective on 1 ball. As you sit on that ball, it will look as if your ball isn't moving at all. so you say - ahh I wanna get on that "moving" ball. So you jump across and land on the other ball. Well dang, now this ball has stopped moving. The ball you left from looks to be the only one that is moving. Was either perspective wrong really? But only if you were to look at things from a perspective not on either ball could you see the truth of the situation, that both balls are moving.

Look at it this way - all living things benefit by this essence or energy. The good, bad and indifferent. The spirit is separate and goes beyond the energy that supports life; human, animal, mammal and vegetation. Whereas the spirit is like a laser gun (a separate force)and can be directed at will, to do his will.

I think most things operate off logic. Plants and such, these are simple logic programs which work off action and reaction. Some animals I'm not sure of. But you could simulate logically anything you see on earth, even our bodies are all logic, action and reaction. The only thing that doesn't operate on action/reaction is consciousness. And this is the ability to "be". To be aware. Higher consciousness IMO starts when you really start to realize - you are aware that you are aware, and the significance of it. I think, therefore I am. So these are the 2 forces I see.

If I make a program of a 3d world right now. I can do this all on logic. But until a consciousness is there to view it, it doesn't "come to life". It's just patterns being run, actions and reactions. So I see the spirit as being in those things which are aware, that observe the creation, and in the end there is only 1 observer.

God cannot be in each of us because: he cannot reside in human dysfunction, His perfection would not allow it. Nor could we endure his perfect energy which would destroy us. The shaming exposure alone, would implode us! We are just lemmings, after all.

But you break your own rule and say that something which is perfect created something which is imperfect. How could his perfection allow such? IMO, there are evil things in this world because we are here to learn. I see the earth as being a school, some may say prison. The father is perfect, the incomplete father "your persective, not you", is the only thing that could be considered not perfect. But realize such is a requirement for this reality.

I honestly don't think of death as "bad", because I don't believe it's real. I don't think when I see someone die, they actually "died". They only "died" in my perspective, not in theirs.

The pure cannot reside with the impure, Nor are WE Gods as Neo-Platonists and others since have taught. Free will must be allowed to enter the picture, and heaven's knows we are very imperfect and as gods have failed miserably!

There is a scripture that says "God is dynamic energy." We cannot see God and live. It shoots the "God is in us" - theory!

God is a God of science and therefore, there are laws in the Universe we cannot transcend, this being one of them. It is also logical that atheists would have a difficult time with New Age, as I do, for it cannot be supported by science (also a creation of God).

How can you understand cold if you didn't also know hot? You could also be hot or cold, but you could never actually understand what either of them meant unless you have experienced both. You would just be whatever, and if you were to say you were hot or cold, it would only be because authority told you so. Only with knowledge of both do you understand. Thus, why it says we will know both good and evil. Before then, we were "good", but we were only good because that is just what we were. We didn't know we were good, we didn't know what good was. No understanding. But then we come experience evil, and from that we gain knowledge and understanding, and eventually the wisdom to make the correct choices.

Row, row, row your boat,
Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.

reply to post by MatrixProphet


The revolution will come.

When I was a kid, I believed in all the fire and brimstone, the burning bush, parting of the sea, the ark, the ascension all that stuff, but as I grew up I started to think, hold on a second this stuff is a little bit hard to believe. As you get older, you start to question what seems impossible.

I believe we are here because we are a certain distance from the sun, and it's taken billions of years since the big bang to evolve and get to where we are today. That's it. I don't think 'powers that be' govern us. If they do, then they need to show face. Somehow, I don't think that will ever happen.

It would be easier to accept (in my mind) that we are an experiment for an alien race.

Originally posted by Thistled
My world is very very real, and there are no layers of BS. I assure you, there is no agenda, but you assume athiests have an agenda.

Seriously badmedia, I do not have an agenda.

Thanks for the posts cuz they are interesting.

Nobody thinks their world isn't real. It's the entire allegory of the cave deal that's been around as long as we have had history. You accept what is given to you as real. We all do.

Fine, you don't have an agenda...but you are certainly wearing the uniform.

You do realise there are people who never heard of the bible ? Lucky them.
I wonder how do they live ? Surely they are savages fighting each other over material possesions (like the entire western "civilization") ?

As Columbus wrote of the Arawak (before murdering and enslaving them),
"They are so ingenuous and free with all they have, that no one would believe it who has not seen it... Of anything they possess, if it be asked of them, they never say no; on the contrary, they invite you to share it and show as much love as if their hearts went with it..."

Was an intense acculturation process applied to Arawak children in order to override their inherently greedy, selfish natures and impose the desire to share?

As a child I understood how to give, I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized.

-Luther Standing Bear, Oglala

We do not want schools....
they will teach us to have churches.
We do not want churches....
they will teach us to quarrel about God.
We do not want to learn that.
We may quarrel with men sometimes
about things on this earth,
but we never quarrel about God.
We do not want to learn that.

Heinmot Tooyalaket ( Chief Joseph), Nez Perce Leader

Knowledge was inherent in all things. The world was a library and its books were the stones, leaves, grass, brooks and the birds and animals that shared, alike with us, the storms and blessings of the earth. We learn to do what only the student of nature ever learns, and that is to feel beauty. We never rail at the storms, the furious winds, the biting frosts and snows. To do so intensifies human futility, so whatever comes we should adjust ourselves by more effort and energy if necessary, but without complaint. Bright days and dark days are both expressions of the Great Mystery, and the Indian reveled in being close the the Great Holiness."

-Chief Luther Standing Bear

[edit on 1-2-2009 by pai mei]

It's not just Leviticus that advocates Cruelty and Violence try these:

Old Testament

Genesis
Exodus
Numbers
Deuteronomy
Joshua
1 Samuel

New Testament is just full of cruelty and violence as well...

Time people read the Bible for what it is...101 on how to repress people.

reply to post by badmedia


I will sleep well tonight knowing I am not in the uniform.

[edit on 1/2/2009 by Thistled]

reply to post by greenfruit


I mentioned that earlier but used Leviticus as the example. But you are right.

Are you in uniform?


edit to add smile

[edit on 1/2/2009 by Thistled]

Originally posted by Thistled
reply to post by MatrixProphet

 

The revolution will come.

When I was a kid, I believed in all the fire and brimstone, the burning bush, parting of the sea, the ark, the ascension all that stuff, but as I grew up I started to think, hold on a second this stuff is a little bit hard to believe. As you get older, you start to question what seems impossible.

I believe we are here because we are a certain distance from the sun, and it's taken billions of years since the big bang to evolve and get to where we are today. That's it. I don't think 'powers that be' govern us. If they do, then they need to show face. Somehow, I don't think that will ever happen.

It would be easier to accept (in my mind) that we are an experiment for an alien race.

Who created the alien races?

Alien race sounds alot like "angels" doesn't it? Aren't angels by definition ET? Aren't you still really looking "out there" for answers?

You won't find god looking out there, you are looking in the wrong direction. Looking "out there" is kind of like trying to find Bill Gates and the programmers in your Windows OS.

Hell btw isn't eternal or fire and brimstone, but it certainly could be. What parent punishes their child for eternity? But, if you put your finger to a stove eye, it's going to burn you until you remove it. The point is that you remove it. If you never removed it, then it would keep burning you. If you keep doing bad things, then you will continue to be in a "hell".

Also, realize that gods laws are actually pretty few and not hard to live by.

The powers that be work pretty simple. Understandings get around, and so they will embrace the leaders/messengers to appear as though they are on that same side. They will embrace the symbolism and then do things that go against the message. Meanwhile, the people follow it because they believe that anything against that symbol is against them and so on. The result is they all get manipulated. By outright rejecting the symbolism like in this thread, you then become the evil for the other side, which further puts them into the chains, and strengthens the chains around you as well.

If you can't see it in the bible and politics around you, then you are going to see it when it happens the next time either.

reply to post by badmedia


Who created the alien races? Are you suggesting a 'god'?
Alien race sounds alot like "angels" doesn't it? Not to me it doesn't
Aren't angels by definition ET? Aren't you still really looking "out there" for answers? I use my telescope to look at stars and nebula - not god.

You won't find god looking out there, you are looking in the wrong direction. Looking "out there" is kind of like trying to find Bill Gates and the programmers in your Windows OS. I'm not looking for god badmedia.