Is it time to ditch the bible?

Originally posted by spy66
It's a free will to believe in God. I dont know why anyone should have to prove anything. Because no one can prove a damn thing. And that's the only argument non believers have. And its a dam good one to. But let them have it. We know better.

The point is to let the word out. Not to force it. Its up to one self to take the responsibility.

If only 'some' of your brothers and sisters would listen to you.

The problem is, your brothers and sisters (not all of them), "force" it down the throat of anyone who dares to question.

reply to post by crmanager


Look at your signature crmanager.

"When wounded and lying on Aghanistans plains and the women come out to cut up your remains, roll to your rifle and blow out your brains and go to God like a soldier. KIPLING"

If you take your own life, you are not welcome in the kingdom of god.

Like Kipling, I don't think you have been paying attention in bible class.



[edit on 4/2/2009 by Thistled]

reply to post by Thistled

If you take your own life, you are not welcome in the kingdom of god.

Like Kipling, I don't think you have been paying attention in bible class.

Sweet Jesus! May I interject myself here just to remind that the Scots are most notable for giving up their lives in suicidal settings, REPEATEDLY! Us English types have facilitated that several times.





[edit on 2/4/2009 by donwhite]

Might be more like time to read it and learn what it really is about!

reply to post by donwhite


I think that's going off topic a little.

Besides, it's not unique to Scotland, it happens the world over.

At least you know they won't be going 'to the kingdom'. Their loss eh?

Ditch the bible or not, those individuals would have done it anyway.

Suicide is common in unemployment blackspots, and areas with drug problems, and Scotland has many.

But like I say, this is slightly off topic.

reply to post by Thistled


Ditch the Bible? Does the Holy Writ actually forbid self destruction?

When is suicide not suicide? In the setting recalled by Kiplling, which is like unto the advice often given and taken by American settlers in the Wild West in the 19th century take-over of Native American lands: “Save the last bullet for yourself!” This was to avoid a favorite cause of death as practiced by the Natives, being skinned alive. And etc.

Your argument for ditching centers on the idea that the bible fosters hate and discrimination and that in this age of enlightenment, we shouldn't have a book like that laying around on coffee tables. I guess the idea is that somebody might pick it up and start invoking various elements of the law God revealed to the Israelites. Kind of like somebody might go browse the unenforced blue laws on the books and start closing the pubs on Sunday.

First off, what makes you think we're so enlightened? Is it because we have cars? Send men to outer space? Better predictive models of physical phenom's? Larger economies? Is it that our reasoning capacities are so much more enhanced than 2000 years ago? Is it that we're so tolerant? If we're tolerant of things that destroy individuals and cultures, is that enlightened or simply permissive or apathetic? Are we enlightened because we allow men and women to fornicate with abandon and avoid the consequences of their fornication by not only allowing but supporting the murder of their unborn babies? Right, we've come a long way - baby.

Second, is it wrong to hate? Is it wrong to discriminate? These terms are bandied about in our modern culture but I suspect that most people map them to things on TV rather than real experience. Come on - we live by discriminating in ways that many people wouldn't have an argument with. We are discriminating creatures, we have our own preferences. But because of propaganda, most people equate discrimination to sexual, racial or ethnic discrimination. Our modern society is quickly trying to map out the space of all possible behaviors or states of being and declaring - we will not discriminate on the basis of this or that. You can see the various camps, e.g. cross dressing men who want to invade the bathrooms of women and girls. Does God discriminate when he declares that everyone is a filthy sinner? What's discriminating about that - it's equal opportunity. Does the bible discriminate when it says that there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free?

What kinds of things shouldn't we hate? We shouldn't hate individuals, right? How about Hitler or Stalin? How about Nebuchadnezzar or Sennacherib? Can I hate the butchers of history? How about sin? Should we hate sin? The bible is absolutely full of God's hate for sin and for those in enmity to him who brazenly practice it. He hates it, no doubt about that. So, are you advocating ditching the bible because God demonstrates a hate for sin in there? If so, what sins is the bible getting in the way of for you?

Without the bible, we're left to define good and bad on our own. Every time this has happened, it's been a miserable failure. Look at the book of Proverbs and tell me there isn't Godly wisdom in that book. So, you want to ditch that also?

I think we need the bible more than ever today to define in absolute terms what is good and what is bad. God is good. The bible is good. What it says is bad IS bad.

If we get cross ways with the bible because we cannot follow it, then we're in luck. God provides a way for us by first declaring our sins as unintentional (and thereby payable by sacrifice) and then by providing the sacrifice himself (which is both necessary and sufficient for communion with him).

I assume you're keeping a tally. What's the score so far? Are we taking a vote?

reply to post by donwhite


The motives / circumstance will be judged by god at that time.

The other viewpoint is, if you don't cherish this life enough, then you are putting a signal out to say you didn't want it in the first place, which is a slap in the face of god.

We are deemed sinners the second we are born, and it is the job of parents to train / educate / brainwash the offspring. Live your life by not breaking the commandments and you get to meet the big guy.

Imagine that, the poor wee thing is a sinner the second it comes into this world. It's done nothing and it's a sinner. Now that is a fascinating way of ensuring your population tow the line isn't it?

If the bible is the word of GOD then there will not be any mistakes, errors, or confusion,so i looked, and when i found some ,you are told,who are you to question GOD? we are too inexperienced to fathom GOD,s goodness,we were given free will, which is free choice,if our brain is not capable of understanding GOD,s ways, then why are we given it.
For those in authority it means, i speak ,you listen and DO AS YOU ARE TOLD,if you don,t then you are not of this flock.
Religions have a lot to answer for ,maybe soon we will find the truth FOR OURSELVES ,we are becoming more educated (opposite of ignorance that the religious leaders prefer) and the internet is talking to us ,maybe we will be as wise as those in control, the masses are those that PAY the religious institutions.

Originally posted by Thistled
If only 'some' of your brothers and sisters would listen to you.

The problem is, your brothers and sisters (not all of them), "force" it down the throat of anyone who dares to question.

Should we kill all humans because of the actions of people like Hitler?

I guess them blue hairs were right, we need to get rid of video games because obviously they are teaching people violence.

Heavy Metal music too. Hey, just look at some of the people who listen, obviously it should all be gone.

Governments have a history of wars, lets just get rid of all them too.

Ever been in a fight? Well obviously you are a person who has a violent nature, we should dispose of you as well.

While we are at it, guess we need to get rid of Scotland as well since you are obviously a product of that.

Do you realize how low your level of thinking is in this? Basically, you make the same ignorant arguments as the people you point fingers at. Where I am from, we call this hypocrisy.


[edit on 4-2-2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by Thistled
reply to post by donwhite

 

The motives / circumstance will be judged by god at that time.

The other viewpoint is, if you don't cherish this life enough, then you are putting a signal out to say you didn't want it in the first place, which is a slap in the face of god.

We are deemed sinners the second we are born, and it is the job of parents to train / educate / brainwash the offspring. Live your life by not breaking the commandments and you get to meet the big guy.

Imagine that, the poor wee thing is a sinner the second it comes into this world. It's done nothing and it's a sinner. Now that is a fascinating way of ensuring your population tow the line isn't it?

Actually, you have to be pure of heart to see the big guy.

Which isn't actually that hard to do really, because I've done it. It means rather than looking out for just yourself in things, you are looking for a true way for all people to get along, and have pure intentions in what you do.

reply to post by badmedia

Actually, you have to be pure of heart to see the big guy.

Pure of heart? Or simple of mind? Methinks the latter will get you into the show much quicker than the former which I see not anywhere I look.

Which isn't actually that hard to do really, because I've done it. It means rather than looking out for just yourself in things, you are looking for a true way for all people to get along, and have pure intentions in what you do.

Without meaning to be personal, that is ******! To give it the best label I can think of. Pollyanna-ish. Juvenile. Or just plain self inflicted Know Nothing-ism. Avoidance. Denial. And etc.

Originally posted by donwhite
Pure of heart? Or simple of mind? Methinks the latter will get you into the show much quicker than the former which I see not anywhere I look.

Fine, would you like to see who is the more intelligent between us? I'm a self taught programmer and make my living based on logic. I could read and spell at the age of 2. I started school a year early, and still they wanted me to skip grades. Thankfully my mom wouldn't let them because being the youngest and smallest kid in highschool was rough enough as it was from starting school early. Solved Einsteins logic problem at the age of 12. I went from being homeless to being the CTO of a company within 5 years, and I had really never even used a computer before. And so on.

I'm so sick of people deeming anyone with religion as stupid. Guess what, it's a stupid stereotype and isn't true. I'm your huckleberry. I'm here to break your stereotypes and misbeliefs. So lets do it, you think you are smarter than me, then lets see it.

Without meaning to be personal, that is ******! To give it the best label I can think of. Pollyanna-ish. Juvenile. Or just plain self inflicted Know Nothing-ism. Avoidance. Denial. And etc.

Of course you would think so. And I really don't blame you. I wouldn't believe it either. But just like Christians and everyone else, you deny anything beyond your own reality as being possible.

If you want to know the truth about the universe, creation and stuff without dogma, then I would suggest checking out these 2 posts. You have no idea what I know, or who I am. Which is fine, because you have no reason to. But I'm about sick of peoples stereotypes.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Let me give you a hint, everything Jesus says about himself is also true of you. The difference is he knew it and you don't.

reply to post by badmedia

I could read and spell at the age of 2. I started school a year early, and still they wanted me to skip grades. So lets do it, you think you are smarter than me, then lets see it. You have no idea what I know, or who I am.

From all that I gathered three things. 1) You have more than a full share of ego. 2) You must surely have a broken arm from patting yourself on the back. 3) Despite Christ’s urging, you have no humility.

Offer declined.


[edit on 2/4/2009 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite
From all that I gathered three things. 1) You have more than a full share of ego. 2) You must surely have a broken arm from patting yourself on the back. 3) Despite Christ’s urging, you have no humility.

Offer declined.

Ohhh, I see. You shall push me down, but should I stand up after I shall be full of ego?

Because I correct you as you call me ignorant, I am patting myself on the back?

Because I bring witness to a truth, I am not humble?

Typical really. Deliver me up to the scriptures all you want. I don't personally worry about such things however. Which is funny, because it was Jesus who said the pure of heart see god in the first place, which you took exception too.

19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.



[edit on 4-2-2009 by badmedia]

reply topost by badmedia


But Ms B/M you left out these verses?

16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.

I kinda like that, here’s Christ advising his followers to “be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.” Akin to a shyster? Altogether unbecoming of the OMNIPOTENT Creator of the Whole Universe. IMO.

23 “But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.

Whoops! Holy Smoke! Jesus was distinctly MISINFORMED by the Father. I hope you are not still waiting for that event too. You will grow gray and stooped and it still won’t happen. Wish on!


[edit on 2/4/2009 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite
I kinda like that, here’s Christ admonishing his followers to “be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.” Akin to a shyster? Altogether unbecoming of the OMNIPOTENT Creator of the Whole Universe. IMO.

I am much like a serpent in my words. This many Christians kind of wince at about me. I speak up about the church. I speak up about the brainwashing and the idol worship. I completely denounce Paul, who makes up nearly 50% of the NT, more than all the disciples who walked with Jesus, and the words of Jesus combined. Many even dislike me because of, but I am told to expect this.

But in my actions I am innocent. I would never do anything physically that harmed anyone. I am not in favor of wars, I am not in favor of trying to force things on to people and so on. I will speak up with as strong of a voice as I can, but I am all bark and no bite and I have no problem saying so.

I fail to see what is shyster about that. Now, if you want to talk about people who have used religion as a means of manipulation, then you will find I am one of the loudest in pointing this out as well. But these people are just people who do things in the name of god/Jesus, they are not keeping the commandments.

Whoops! Holy Smoke! Jesus was distinctly MISINFORMED by the Father. I hope you are not still waiting for that event too. You will grow gray and stooped and it still won’t happen. Wish on!

Do you realize there are "keys" in the bible? One of the easiest keys is when Jesus says, I am the truth, the way and the light. Think about that a bit.

reply to post by badmedia


B/M Says: “OMG! ‘Faith’ and ‘Quantum Physics’ are the SAME thing!”

The universe is static in the eyes of god. As he knows all, in that perspective there is no time as nothing changes, it's just a big huge static creation.

Could you repeat that a little slower just in case GOD was not listening?

Now, in our perspective it seems as though time and things are completely linear. The same way a movie is linear. But this is not because the universe follows linear time or is linear. It is simply our path through the universe when in our perspective of time makes it seem linear.

Phantasmagoria! Why the heck had not I thought of that!?

This is what quantum physics is starting to understand with the wave particles. But, when you look at the wave of particles rather than the single particle, what you are doing is viewing the nearest dimensions/possibilities.

So, rather than god viewing a single film, it is like taking a unlimited amount of films and setting them next to each other. Each film is almost exactly like the previous, with only a small tiny difference in each.

Uhh, are you sober? Are you drinking Boo Koo Citrus? Or maybe Diesel? I’ll bet you’re high on SoBe No Fear! Frankly, I get too much from a cup of coffee so I stay away from these Madison Avenue hyped energy drinks. Maybe you better cut back?

[edit on 2/4/2009 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite

The universe is static in the eyes of god. As he knows all, in that perspective there is no time as nothing changes, it's just a big huge static creation.

Could you repeat that a little slower just in case GOD was not listening?

Sure thing. As the father is all knowing, then there is nothing which can be new. All possibilities are known, if they were not known then god would not be all knowing. Because of this, time and change do not exist for the father.

As I go on to explain, this is like taking a movie film. If you stretch that movie film out from end to end, then that movie has no change, it has no time. It is completely static, like a painting.

Now, in our perspective it seems as though time and things are completely linear. The same way a movie is linear. But this is not because the universe follows linear time or is linear. It is simply our path through the universe when in our perspective of time makes it seem linear.

Phantasmagoria! Why the heck had not I thought of that!?

Yes, and when you take that same film in the eyes of the father and you put it into a limited perspective, then the film turns into a movie. Each frame is presented 1 after the other. Because of this limited perspective, the movie now changes and has time.

But as god is all knowing, and all possibilities exist it is not a single film. It is film stacked on top of film, stacked on top of film. Parallel dimensions of sorts. Of course, in reality you change dimensions every second. You reap what you sow. This means that the choices you make determine your path. You go rob a person, you end up in film where you are in jail. Wave or smile at someone, maybe make a friend.

Because of your limited perspective, the things which you do and how you move around will appear linear. You can see 2 futures, 2 paths. Which one you choose becomes reality. But just like all those movies with the "devil" who tricks people, sometimes your choice has other consequences not yet known.

And so when Jesus talks about following the path, he is talking about it for good reason. If you do as he says, then you will reap what you sow and your path will reflect it. If you just give him lip service, don't do what he says then you will still do bad things and you will still go down the wrong path.

Uhh, are you sober? Are you drinking Boo Koo Citrus? Or maybe Diesel? I’ll bet you’re high on SoBe No Fear! Frankly, I get too much from a cup of coffee so I stay away from these Madison Avenue hyped energy drinks. Maybe you better cut back?

Think of wave and particles of quantum physics like this. I'm assuming you know basic algebra.

A particle is 1+1=2. The wave is A+B=C. Where A+B=C represents many possibilities, 1+1=2, or the particle being 1 of those possibilities. The nearest possibility would be 1+2=3 and so on. Just as the nearest "film" I mentioned above is almost exactly like the one currently being views.




[edit on 4-2-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia

Sure thing. As the father is all knowing, then there is nothing which can be new. All possibilities are known, if they were not known then god would not be all knowing. Because of this, time and change do not exist for the father.

I’m sorry, B/M, I meant that facetiously

And so when Jesus talks about following the path, he is talking about it for good reason. If you do as he says, then you will reap what you sow and your path will reflect it. If you just give him lip service, don't do what he says then you will still do bad things and you will still go down the wrong path. A particle is 1+1=2. The wave is A+B=C. Where A+B=C represents many possibilities, 1+1=2, or the particle being 1 of those possibilities. The nearest possibility would be 1+2=3 and so on. Just as the nearest "film" I mentioned above is almost exactly like the one currently being views.

You must have got this stuff in a Holy Ghost class how to flummox your audience? Or a hypnosis class?

B/M, you remind me of St. Paul who made a BIG mistake! Acts 26. v28.Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me . . v31. And when they were gone aside, they talked between themselves [Agrippa, Bernice and Festus], saying, This man doeth nothing worthy of death or of bonds. v32. Then said Agrippa unto Festus, This man might have been set at liberty, if he had not appealed unto Caesar.” And you know what happened to St. Paul in Rome? That is called being too smart by half.

I must quit now, B/M, as I do not take religion of any kind as being worth my time or trouble.


[edit on 2/4/2009 by donwhite]