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Obama preserves rendition two days after taking office

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posted on Feb, 2 2009 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by Leo Strauss
 


There's an update at the bottom of your original source.


As well as several sources in my post on the previous page.

[edit on 2-2-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]




posted on Feb, 2 2009 @ 07:30 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Thanks Benevolent Heretic ,

It's hard to find the time to read the 100 articles in different publications,it takes to find out the truth these days



posted on Feb, 2 2009 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


A kinder gentler kidnapping is still kidnapping and we are supposed to take them at their word they will not torture and allow due process.

Kidnapping is not an American value! Don't fall for the soft sell! If these people are criminals arrest them, give them a trial and punish the guilty. Why is that not sufficient?



posted on Feb, 2 2009 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by Leo Strauss
If these people are criminals arrest them, give them a trial and punish the guilty. Why is that not sufficient?


Because the country they are in might not cooperate.

5 Myths about Rendition



In fact, the term "rendition" in the counterterrorism context means nothing more than moving someone from one country to another, outside the formal process of extradition. For the CIA, rendition has become a key tool for getting terrorists from places where they're causing trouble to places where they can't. The problem is where these people are taken and what happens to them when they get there. As a former director for counterterrorism policy on the National Security Council staff, I've been involved with the issue of rendition for nearly a decade -- and some of the myths surrounding it need to be cleared up.
...
3. Step one of a rendition involves kidnapping the suspect.

The individual may feel as though he's being kidnapped, but that's not usually what's going on. Most of the time, the person is detained by the authorities of the country he is in. They will then hand him off to the CIA, which will fly him to his destination.

In rare cases when the country of residence is a hostile one, an "extraordinary rendition" can be carried out: a covert effort to abduct the suspect and spirit him out of the country. The CIA put considerable time into efforts to capture Osama bin Laden this way from Taliban-ruled Afghanistan in the late 1990s. Had it worked, it would have been an extraordinary rendition -- and Americans would have cheered.


Adolf Eichmann



Karl Adolf Eichmann (March 19, 1906–May 31, 1962), sometimes referred to as "the architect of the Holocaust", was a Nazi and SS-Obersturmbannführer (equivalent to Lieutenant Colonel).
...
He was captured by Israeli Mossad agents in Argentina and tried in an Israeli court on fifteen criminal charges, including crimes against humanity and war crimes. He was convicted and hanged in 1962.


[edit on 2-2-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Feb, 2 2009 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


I can see your point but if a country is shielding a criminal I believe the World Courts could find justification to proceed in legal manner to apprehend a criminal and bring them to justice lawfully!

I am talking about a loophole in our justice system which would allow American citizen to be kidnapped. That loophole must be closed. We have a justice system and we do not need Presidential signing statement trumping our constitution.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 07:40 AM
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I certainly see your point, too, Leo.



Originally posted by Leo Strauss
I am talking about a loophole in our justice system which would allow American citizen to be kidnapped.


Can you explain? American citizens would be arrested if they were on US soil. If they were in another country, extradition would be employed. And if the foreign government didn't want to cooperate, then yes, we might go get the guy. But he would then be brought here and given a fair trial, in keeping with our laws.

I'd like to make sure we're "together" on our terms.

From what I understand.



Rendition

The capture of political prisoner, political opponents or suspected terrorists by the United States government, and their removal to countries where the torture, rape, and/or prisoner abuse are legally permitted or overlooked


This has been allowed under Bush, but Obama signed an Executive Order stating:



There shall be established a Special Task Force on Detainee Disposition (Special Task Force) to identify lawful options for the disposition of individuals captured or apprehended in connection with armed conflicts and counterterrorism operations.


This would seem NOT to permit moving people to countries where torture, rape, and/or prisoner abuse are permitted, since that violates OUR laws and the laws of the Geneva Conventions. But neither does it outlaw legal rendition options. We won't know where Obama stands on this until the Task Force reports on it, but it seems "torture by proxy" is no longer an option.

Further, this Obama Executive Order revokes Bush's Executive Order that removed the protections of the Geneva Conventions pertaining to prisoners of war from al Qaeda, the Taliban, and associated forces.



Section 1. Revocation. Executive Order 13440 of July 20, 2007, is revoked. All executive directives, orders, and regulations inconsistent with this order, including but not limited to those issued to or by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) from September 11, 2001, to January 20, 2009, concerning detention or the interrogation of detained individuals, are revoked to the extent of their inconsistency with this order.


So, Obama has signed 2 EOs that reinstate the protections of the Geneva Conventions to POWs and is establishing a Task Force to explore LAWFUL options for relocation and treatment of same.

So it seems to me that while simple rendition ("kidnapping" and transferring someone from one country to another) has its place in today's world, extraordinary and irregular rendition (transferring them to a country where torture, abuse, and rape are legal or overlooked) does NOT and won't be practiced under the Obama administration.

Do you agree?


[edit on 3-2-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by crmanager
Let the butt smooching begin..

"I can't believe Obama would let this happen..."

"The Generals must have gotten a hold of him..."

PATHETIC>>>

The savior saw what W was doing was right after all of you...people...bought into his liberal rhetoric.

He is a Marxixt but at least he can see some reality.


Exactly. Now the media has the job of undoing all that it has done over the last 8 years. Now they have to spin all of this so that its a good thing (it always was what needed to be done). Its just more proof that the media had a large and in torpedoing everything Bush did. Now that democrats are in charge, all those same polices will be A-OK!

BH is probably testing the spin they will use right now. I predict you'll see similar equivocation in the media.

[edit on 3-2-2009 by Cio88]



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Can you explain? American citizens would be arrested if they were on US soil. If they were in another country, extradition would be employed. And if the foreign government didn't want to cooperate, then yes, we might go get the guy. But he would then be brought here and given a fair trial, in keeping with our laws.



Rendition

The capture of political prisoner, political opponents or suspected terrorists by the United States government, and their removal to countries where the torture, rape, and/or prisoner abuse are legally permitted or overlooked



Do you agree?



BH I do agree and you and I are in full agreement. I would also like to add you expressed the point far more intelligently and eloquently than my hastily thrown together angry post.

We have been dealing with the dirty weasels from the previous administration for so long I intend to have little patience for political games from the Obama Administration. On a side note it appears Eric Holder actually intends to uphold the law!


Peace to you BH I always enjoy your posts!



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 11:56 AM
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If an American serial killer escaped the U.S. and was living in South America, would it be objectionable for that South American country to "render" him or her back to the U.S. for trial? I'd say in most cases yes, as long as there was no cruel and/or unusual treatment of the suspect.

There is a place for rendition in the modern world, as long as it's not abused.

This story was on the mainstream news last night (CNN and MSNBC for two) and the general conclusion was the L.A. Times and other sources that first jumped on this story got punked. I said in an earlier post that I would like to know what the "certain circumstances" that would justify rendition might be, and I'm satisfied that Obama's executive order was appropriate.

Obama's detractors were full of glee because they could now point at Obama and say that he is "no change" from the policies of the Bush administration--an idea that gives them satisfaction. Idealists on the left are perhaps disappointed that a world court or other judicial body outside the U.S. would not be designated to intervene in the case of those suspected of terrorism. It turns out that Obama is at neither extreme.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by ConservativeJack




Change we can believe in?


Where's all of these Obama voters? Too embarrassed to show their faces?

I mean, I find it quite pathetic that all of those people voting for Obama can't man up and explain this.....liberals are just confused and usually women.



..............................................................................
[edit: removed unnecessary quote of entire previous post]
Quoting - Please review this link

[edit on 1-2-2009 by 12m8keall2c]


I would LOVE to see more Americans get out of this narrow bilateral view that sees every little thing in politics in terms of "liberal" and "conservative."

Can you please open your eyes? Both such categories are useless and it has been proven time and time again that BOTH, regardless of which one is in power at the particular time, BOTH of them are routinely responsible for crimes against humanity while in power.

Both "sides" are criminals and you shouldn't be allying yourself with any of them. Its not "liberals vs conservatives" anymore.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 06:31 PM
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I would LOVE to see more Americans get out of this narrow bilateral view that sees every little thing in politics in terms of "liberal" and "conservative."

Can you please open your eyes? Both such categories are useless and it has been proven time and time again that BOTH, regardless of which one is in power at the particular time, BOTH of them are routinely responsible for crimes against humanity while in power.

Both "sides" are criminals and you shouldn't be allying yourself with any of them. Its not "liberals vs conservatives" anymore.


Ok my eyes are open I promise! Obama is a liberal and so are his buddies which makes him the enemy. He is a dangerous liberal and that's why I am attacking liberal ideology like the 850,000,000,000 stimulus Liberal Christmas tree of every liberal idea from the last 40 years thrown together.

Don't be mad because I am not a liberal loon. This isn't liberal vs. conservative this is Socialism vs Capitalism, Government Run health care vs free market, spending a near trillion dollars after 2 weeks on office, yea that sounds like a responsible thing to try to do Barry... Yea, Change we can Believe in.

Yes We Can, hire tax cheats and try to give our rich wall street friends another 800 billion.


[edit on 3-2-2009 by ConservativeJack]



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 03:46 PM
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Just wanted to add this update to this story.

CIA Nominee Leon Panetta says no to extraordinary rendition



WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration will not conduct the kind of "extraordinary rendition" that the Bush administration allowed, CIA Director nominee Leon Panetta assured senators on Thursday.

Panetta told the Senate Intelligence Committee that President Barack Obama forbids what Panetta called "that kind of extraordinary rendition — when we send someone for the purpose of torture or actions by another country that violate our human values."
...
"I think renditions where we return individuals to another country where they prosecute them under their laws, I think that is an appropriate use of rendition, Panetta said.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 04:28 PM
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I hate that I'm so suspicious of every thing TPB does ,rrrrrr!

Because I really really want to back him meaningfully

good ,I think he wants to be the guy on the white horse and that's good with me


we need a hero,



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by invisiblewoman
 


I think being suspicious is a good thing. A BALANCE of suspicion and open-mindedness is probably the best way to look at any situation. Blind acceptance and blind rejection are two sides of the same coin.



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