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highways, telecommunications, rail systems, airports and ports - all of which serve to offer the illusion of a common need for safety, security and commerce.
But while those places and threads appear to offer comfort, security, social networking and the need for commerce and trade, what they actually do is slowly strangle the essence of what we essentially are – free thinking, inventive, self-determining biological beings.
The alternative is this – escape from the cocoon of the “Real World” and experience life as it should be, in the wild, fending for ourselves, learning about our environment and nature and acting in a simple, balanced manner.
Only this way can we come to terms with the world and our actual place in it. By understanding the falseness of our “9-5” and our artificial social and electronic bubble we can come to a realization that there is actually more to life, and ultimately be rewarded with a sense of fulfillment, connectivity with nature and feel alive.
UHH,SCREECH HALT as a LOUD PIERCING SIREN goes off – WAKE UP ”real world” time again…..has any of those “perfect” vacations turned out to be as “perfect” as you had envisioned them beforehand? Did everyone, really get along perfectly, was it without problems, did you indeed find paradise? I would gather the answer is “No”, nothing is perfect – nor is a complete escape – no matter how much we desire or visualize it to be.
This is not true, having our lives and realities expanded by the social networks we live in right now is a Great thing and ways we are able to live out our fantasies of a more perfect life.
Q1 - hasn’t technology in the world you live in, expanded your life, doesn’t the “electronic bubble” provide a learning and expansion of your mind right now?
Q2 – have you ever moved from one place to another – expecting to have more happiness after the move?
Q3 – if yes from Q 2 – was the happiness fulfilled, was it “everything” you expected or visualized it would be, and did that happiness stay for a prolonged period of time?
Q4 – Do you believe all your troubles would be left behind, if you moved out into the middle of nowhere?
Neformore’s answer – Yes
Neformore’s answer : No. But that was to do with another person, not with the circumstances of "the real world" - in fact what I did was swap one part of "The Real World" with another, and in the attempt, literally drove myself into the ground trying to accomplish it.
Right there implies, your mind’s illusions, fantasies and expectations of the “happier world” you were moving to, ended up actually causing you more stress than you had before. I am saying that, due to “your words”, you used.
“ in the attempt, literally drove myself into the ground trying to accomplish it.”
1. Do you remember life before the "internet revolution?"
2. If the answer to (1) is yes, how was life more difficult then?
3. How many things do you own that you actually could not, ever, do without? (and please list them!)
4. What was the last thing that really, really irritated you? (Be honest now!)
The focus and direction of my side of the debate is - the fact we may “dream, fantasize and create illusions” in our mind, of leaving and escaping the “Real World” – no matter where we may go, we would simply trade one “Real World for another”.
Question 1 –
Have you ever gone on vacation and beforehand – thought it would be paradise and everything would be “perfect” during it and it did not turn out that way?
Question 2 – have you ever thought – If only I got that job/gift/money – after that I will be happy and then weren’t – because there was always something else that was needed after that?
Question 3 – Has anything ever turned out, exactly as you fantasized it would?
Question 4 – have you ever traveled outside your county, a place you always dreamed of going to, thinking it was a place you would like to live – then when you get there, people who live there – say they have always wanted to live where you came from?
From Neformore: When the will is there, the next step is research. Research is necessary to establish several things - where you wish to go, what the underlying conditions there are, what flora and fauna you are likely to find there, what the weather is like and what dangers the area represents. Research is imperative.
Location choice is very important. Humans can adapt to many different environments, but temperate zones are the easiest to cope with. (This is supposed to be less stressful right?). It also helps if there is a ready supply of materials on hand to build yourself a shelter (which is why forests or forest edge areas are ideal.) A ready supply of water is essential and - in the form of streams and lakes also provides a food source for fishing. It is also possible to dig yourself a well.
I know...all sounds hideously complicated. But its not. Think about it. Before all of our modern conveniences, this is exactly how people did it before we all drove ourselves into the ground
Once you’ve seen this astonishing video you’ll have a grasp of the amazing variety of skills required to live off the land. If you think you'll never need the skills in this video... you're wrong. The skills we captured were chosen for their cross cultural and trans-environmental value. Furthermore it is important for ANY student of survival or wilderness living to understand how much work is required to stay alive even in the most productive of environments... the jungle.
from Neformore: And you could argue that in the "Real World" such things are possible, but as I have already outlined above, the "Real World" harbours all sorts of stresses and strains and tends to leave people wanting "something".
While interviewees tended to associate day-to-day worries and acute stress with farming's intrinsic demands (such as disease and adverse weather conditions), external causes of tension (such as competition and regulation), together with worries about finances and family, were associated with more sustained anxieties. By contrast, work-related aspects of farming stress, such as workload issues and farming practices, involved a combination of physical and mental health effects.
Yes, but that has nothing to do with escaping the "Real World". Thats all to do with expectations, and swapping one stress for another
So you swapped one stress for another on vacation? Isn’t a vacation supposed to be none stressful? Isn’t that why we take vacations? Personally, I have never dreamed of a “stressful” vacation, all the vacations I create in my mind and my “expectations” ahead of time, are fun, carefree, and none stressful vacations.
swapping one stress for another.
Isn’t a vacation supposed to be none stressful? Isn’t that why we take vacations? Personally, I have never dreamed of a “stressful” vacation, all the vacations I create in my mind and my “expectations” ahead of time, are fun, carefree, and none stressful vacations.
Question 1 - With the above pretend scenario..do you think that sounds like a wonderful stress free situation, or do you think that the family, may just trade a set of realities for another completely and possibly more stressful set of realities, by having only illusions built up?
I will say this however - living in the artificial cocoon we have made for ourselves, undertaking our peer pressured lives its easy to pass everything off as "difficult", because someone else will do it for you.
This overreliance on other people has very very dangerous pitfalls that aren't apparent to 99% of people as long as the things they take for granted keep running. When they stop its a different matter.
If the water stops running, if the power goes off, if the fuel supplies stop, then chaos soon follows. That is the 900lb gorilla sitting in the corner waiting to jump on modern civilisation.
You eat when you want to. Furthermore you catch/prepare and cook your own food. No sanctioned lunch breaks there. All your food, prepared your way.
You sleep when you want to. No alarm clocks. No rush hour.
You have time to think. No phones. No TV, no distractions beyond those of your own making.
You are away from the hustle and bustle. No artifical rushing around reaching to meet someone elses deadline.
How much more rewarding is it knowing that you actually are master of your own destiny?
Remember when you were a child, and summer seemed to last forever? Hours seemed like days? Time stretched out before you because you didn't have to worry about deadlines, and clocks, and paying the bills. All you had to concentrate on was your own existence, and enjoying it for what it was.
That is the key here.
And how much more rewarding can life be, than living in a place you choose, in a home you built, working to your own timetable, free from outside interference?
What you want, when you want, anytime, all the time.
Socratic question for Questioningall
1. In the life of a working person in the modern world, how much of life (percentage wise) do you believe is spent solely on themselves, given that they are working 9-5 Monday to Friday.
Debate: Neformore vs questioningall : "The Great Escape, Good Idea or Bad?"
This was an interesting debate and I congratulate each Fighter on an impressive debut.
Nefermore started kind of iffy as he demonizes modern society as the cause of laziness and excees...and coining the term (for the purpose of the debate) Artificial Stress. Truth be told, stress is stress and dressing it up as somehow less than stress by virtue of the cause, whatever it may be, is not a valid distinction.
Questioningall kind of refutes this point by accurately pointing out that how one deals with the environment one is in creates the spectrum of human experience by virtue of unique obstacles (she makes no mention of the rewards; understandably so) that will inherently produce stress.
So the point of stress in either an escaped reality or modern societies reality is kind of a toss up; surprisingly so.
Which leads us to the main theme of the debate and that is can an escaped reality be rewarding?
Questioningall takes the position that whereever one is, that is the real world, that the real world is reality itself and the only escape is a short term one as practiced by one's expectations and fantasies.
But nefermore contends that the structured pace of modern society is in fact completely different from taking on an independent lifestyle. In the end, I have to side with nefermore's presentation as the case he made was far more compelling.
Questioningall did a decent job of rebuttal but fell apart in her second rebuttal where she seemed to out right mock nefermore's position - ultimately not really making any compelling refutation.
She also made a huge mistake at the beginning of her third rebuttal.
I completely agree it can be a rewarding life, to live off the land… but the point is, living off the land is just one type of escape,
The debate title is "Escaping From The Real World And Living On One's Own (Jungle, Forest etc) Can Lead To A Rewarding Fulfilling Life".
She actually is on record agreeing with her opponent's side, despite the rest of the statement "which will still have a "reality" that can even be harsher than the lives we may lead now."
How can a rewarding life, that she admits to being an escape, be harsher?
Indeed there is a viable answer but questioningall assumes that escape necessarily translates into 'simpler lifestyle' which is incorrect.
Again, a great debate by both but in the end I have to decide in favor of nefermore.
In this Forum its been rare that both sides of the debate are skilled writers able to inspire the readers imagination with descriptiveness. This debate was pleasing to read.
Another noteworthy point is how both debaters took the opponents points as a CONFIRMATION of theirs rather than a rebuttal. This made me laugh out loud a few times.
My own fantasys of being a character in the movie series "Lost" came to an abrupt halt when questioningall featured the picture of a back skinned with bug bites. A clever debate move.
I think questioningall is correct in saying that reality follows you...no matter where you go. She is also correct in stating that simplifying ones own life...without going back to a life of seclusion in the jungle, can improve things.
Neformore is correct and convincing in pointing out how unfulfilling the 9-to-5 treadmill with all its artificial stimuli really is.
So who actually wins this Debate? Having read the debate twice, at this point I am not sure at all. In fact, Im inspired to combine both lifestyles: Moving out into the country to lead a life more simple, but still have internet access.
So in order to determine a debate winner, lets look at the Debate title once more.
The Debate Topic was not "to lead an easier life" but to lead a more FULFILLING life. I do wish the Debaters had practiced more discernment on that. Nevertheless neformore focussed on this aspect just a little bit more than questioningall by pointing out that "going away" makes one more responsible and stronger.
And that is certainly fullfilling. By mid-debate questioningall had taken the lead. This lead was lost by the end of the debate because she kept repeating the same points rather than adapting her strategy to neformores new points.
Neformore wins this debate in a very, very slim lead.
I nevertheless hope to read more of questioningall in this Forum.