Governments across Europe tremble as angry people take to the streets

reply to post by Beaux


The thing is, what you aren't taking into account is the cause.

In what historical period you reference has there been a clear group of people to blame? And in how many of those dates you reference have there been massive figures of your money being paid to the elite bankers while getting nothing in return? In what period you reference has a state declared itself bankrupt?

That is the catalyst here.

Also, you state these figures in a regional sense.
This is national, global even.
I think this is what will make a difference in this case.

There are a lot of factors, but there are a few that will increase the probability of massive protests...

1. Injustice that this was man made.
2. Injustice that already wealthy corporations are being given public money while the public sees nothing in return.
3. Unemployment (which I do believe will pass your figures of previous data) is on a global scale. In the US this will affect every state at the same time, not one state in 1980, another in 1990.
4. Communication. Never before have people been able to send information instantaneously, report news without media intervention, and spread the truth instead of manipulated news.

I completely agree with you on the perceived injustice causing riots. But this will be when the first protests start over the economic hardships being suffered. We need to clarify the difference between protest and riot. They are not the same thing of course. Protests are inevitable, how they are dealt with by the authorities will decide how and when they become riots.

Personally, I think there will be protests, at those protests the police will use unjust force, this will cause the "perceived injustice" to spread, and cause more unrest.

reply to post by Mynaeris


There was a thread a few months ago on when the trouble would really hit America.

I followed the same train of thought you are now.

People are still in the party atmosphere over the election of Obama. It's a distraction.

As soon as it's old news, it's likely people will look around them, find that they've lost their job, there's nothing else for them to do, states are declaring themselves bankrupt, their kids won't have the future they thought, there's a chance they'll lose their home... reality will hit.

I gave a date of a bout April/May for the first major protests to start. But I'm still trying to work out the situation with California, how it'll feel to the majority living there. LA will be a flash point of course.

I'll stick with my April/May guess I think.

Right now it really hasn't hit America as bad as the other countries.

For example China's unemployment is quickly going up due to reduced spending by America and products not selling very well in America that are manufactured in China and they are laying off factory workers daily.

I think a good majority of the other countries will be effected before it really hit's home. After all this all seemed to start with the bad loans being sold to banks under false pretenses, hence the reason anyone could get a loan in America. Nearly everything here now days is made over sea's. So when we stop spending they all feel the crunch first.

Then after that America will feel the crunch of suddenly supply being way down and then they will start to panic and buy like mad, assuming the worst. Eliminating supplies in some area's which will cause area's with supplies to then be bought out also due to the panic spreading like wildfire.

Countries may be getting hit hard right now but America will be hit eventually worse than any of the other countries. Because we will in effect be officially broke and no nation would then dare do business with us and chances are demand their money back for bonds and the such they bought.

Whatever the fix is at this point it needs to be a world wide fix because fixing just one countries economic situation will not fix the after math of the rest of the world that is effected.

It looks that Poland is for now the island of peace and prosperity in Europe. But I wonder how long it would take. All neighbors have plenty of major economic problems. For a long time we had no major demonstrations, people are rather optimistic.

reply to post by Res Ipsa


Do you not believe in biological warfare? People are so much easier to control when they're sick & dying, then it's time to go round up the healthy ones. It really wouldn't be as difficult as you're imagining. Our military, & probably others, have used computer models to learn how to control the people if a deadly disease were to break out. TPTB are probably more confident & think they're one step ahead of us. Even worse would be if Yellowstone were to erupt. Martial Law could & would most likely be instated in THAT instance as well. I'm sorry, but you just aren't looking at all the angles. Get off your 2D plane (TV, Comp screen) & get to know the 3D environment you're living in.

I think everyone needs to do some research on what they did in the last Great Depression. FDR said "I will either be a great President or the last one." Obama kind of has the same mission.

In either case people still lived during those times. It people that are here on this board that I think will be better off than those that just ignore the obvious.

Just keep stocking up on things. A can of beans may buy a lot of stuff in the future...

I just hope Obama is a great President and not our last one. I didn't vote for the guy and I have no faith in the "chosen one" but I sure hope I am wrong. Personally I think he was installed as a puppet to bring our nation to its knees. Do we let that happen? Who knows.

I would say there are going to be way more people without as opposed to those that had the forethought to stock up. That's what scares me.

Here is what I see... Obama's goon squad taking from the poor to give to the worthless... If we let that happen...

I think this whole "scenario" have been foretold by "Svali". So what we are witnessing right now is the emergence of "something else".

- People have never felt more divided
- Never have we been attacked with more negative vibrations
- Distrust in existing authorities are building up
- Deprive the populace of their security bases
- Science over religion.

It's like a perfect storm, with all the right elements for total carnage. But like any storm, it will weather off - and what will emerge from that - well anyones guess will be as good as mine.

These problems on the streets have always been present in the third world, BUT NOT in the rich countries, today the governments are waking up and realising they have maybe taken things TOO FAR, and now it is possibly too late because the reserves are NOT in place to continue the controls they have always taken for granted. Doom and gloom now is within sight, and if we don,t wake up, yes US, and take action of storing food and supplies, we could be the next ones in the news.

reply to post by northof8


I think you're right. People should be preparing for a massive change in society.

Best scenario: Governments form a plan that stabilizes the global economy. Or, a natural course runs and doesn't go as deep as we fear.

Worst scenario: Governments cannot find a way to stabilize the economy, food, services, employment all increasingly become unstable as companies fall. Civil unrest increases.

Personally, I hope for the first. But, considering world leaders have left the economic forum and stated that nothing was achieved, doesn't really indicate the former now does it?
The fact that all of this has deepened so quickly, only shows me that this is unprecedented, and out of control before we even knew there was a problem.

The entire economy has been allowed to run based on nothing but IOU's and promises that cannot be fulfilled. There is no substance to any of it. It's all numbers without meaning, what is happening now is that people are waking up to this fact. Where the financial systems used to be based on something physical, it's now based on nothing at all, and you cannot remove the "nothing".

I'm preparing for the worst, and I think any sensible person with any slight intelligence would do the same.

Originally posted by 31337 didn't think Europeans had the nuts to stand up and fight much less riot. I wonder if they understand Socialism doesn't work because there is no such thing as unlimited money.

Another uneducated ATS generalization that shows a lack of common sense.

1) You do realize that the European continent has around a billion people and has had constant wars for over 2000 years? Over 180million died in war in the past 100 years so... obviously we don't know how to fight or stand up for ourselves... simply because the Global aggressors aren't from Europe anymore.

2) The only countries in the Eu that are failing badly are the 'extreme capitalism, less social policy' ones. Ie - Uk, Ireland and ex soviet union countries. The rest are in a slight recession. Last time I checked, the US system began to collapse and this is why the world is where it is now. Try telling your 'bailout nation' that there is no such thing as unlimited money ffs.

Check these things out before making assumptions.

[edit on 1/2/09 by Dermo]

Originally posted by Angeldust1199
- People have never felt more divided
- Never have we been attacked with more negative vibrations
- Distrust in existing authorities are building up
- Deprive the populace of their security bases
- Science over religion.

While I understand your point on a global scale, I don't think these statements are actually so relevant to this.
People been divided several times in recent history, WW1, WW2, American Revolution, Cold war, Civil Rights movement...
I believe we have been attacked with negative vibrations many times, through both world wars, the cold war, in fact every war since.
I agree distrust is building, but we had the same or more in the Thatcher era in the UK.

Personally, I think the main focus here is the fact that the wealthy are running the show, at the expense of the people. That's where the division lies.
Of course, British and European history is littered with examples where imposed taxes caused massive revolt.

Financial hardship = mass revolt.

I'm almost certain that the financial security of the people is the primary catalyst in every scenario where a government or monarchy has been overthrown by the people through civil protests and the resulting violence.

Only now it is more dangerous for those in office, because we long ago lost our ability to provide for our families without state help.
If you were taxed by a king or government beyond your means in the past, or financial hardship was somehow imposed, you went into the fields and carried on farming, you relied on community, you managed somehow. But now, there are no local farms, no small community encompassing everything you need for survival. Now everything relies on a stable national financial system.

Again, this all goes to show once again that globalization is not sustainable or safe for the individual. I'd go so far as to say that even a national interdependency is bad news for individuals.

The only way to have a safe, comfortable existence is smaller communities, tightly controlled trade, reliance on a few people as a team, rather than reliance on a global machine that could break down at any moment.

I'm less concerned about civil unrest and marshal law than I am about the economic policies that this anger and panic will translate into. The very definition of "panic" is behaving impulsively and irrationally in response to a crisis. And this public behavior can easily translate into governmental economic policies that are impulsive and irrational, which in turn will weaken the global economy even further.

I suppose the reason that we don't have so many riots in the US is that we still have more of a sentiment that our society and our government is something of our own making and responsibility. Unfortunately, the more true this is, the more vulnerable we are to panicky economic policy when the public starts to panic. We've seen our politicians pandering to this fear and anger plenty already. It all seems to be pointing to the troubling notion that we may be in a downward spiral here and way past the point of no return.

[edit on 1-2-2009 by Distractions4Nothing]

Originally posted by detachedindividual
reply to post by northof8

 

I'm preparing for the worst, and I think any sensible person with any slight intelligence would do the same.

Well it seems to me most don't have even the slightest bit of intelligence. That is what scares me... We are going to stock up and what happens then? Do they take from us to give to "them"?

I am fortunate enough that I still make a good living and I do feel bad for those that have lost their jobs but if they didn't prepare like they should have what are we to do?

I don't have PS3's or flat screen TV's... I suppose I could just to that with the allowance the wife "gives me from my pay check"... The thing is I am way too scared to just let my guard down like most. Hell most never put it up...

Anyway, after my last post I went to my local Save a lot and spent $75.00 of my allowance and got a ton of stuff. It sure doesn't take a lot to put a lot away.

I got two cases of corn, peas, stewed tomatoes, more jugs of juice and a variety of soups. I did buy a couple boxes of Strawberry pop tarts and I feel a bit guilty about that! Everyone has a vice...

If you do this every pay day you sure do feel much better about things.

Completely agree with you here Riviera and it's something I never quite understood about the NWO/TPTB. No matter how many charts they roll out, how many numbers they crunch. Do they not understand that the most powerful, and most uncontrollable factor will ALWAYS be humans themselves? You can't honestly EVER think you can easily lump humans as just another "number" to factor in. The human spirit and desire for freedom is simply too big, too powerful to control. Yes, the massess have allowed themselves to be susceptible to their brainwashing, but piss them off enough and you'll see how quickly they destroy all your years of TV brainwashing. Iceland is the perfect example.

It can happen here in the U.S. as well, all that is needed is a charismatic leader who happens to know what we here at ATS now, and be able to let the massess know who they should be placing their anger towards, and that's the end for them. Hopefully though, this time we will do the right thing and ELIMINATE the elite PTB COMPLETELY! If the russian Burgeosie had no problem removing the Czar and all family members to make sure they wouldn't come back. We can do the same and make sure we remove THEM and their whole families COMPLETELY so they never come back, and if by some chance any happen to survive, they will think VERY HARD before trying to pull of the same crap their ancestors did.

The key is making sure people don't waste their energy destroying buildings and infrastructure when they need to be compiling a list of humans to exact this revenge upon. People did this, not buildings. I'd be willing to say that anyone working for the Federal Reserve ought to be swinging from a tree. TPTB are nothing more than a group of people. They may have security, but that security can easily be overwhelmed when people gather en masse. Elimination of these people (and those standing beside them) is the only way to prevent them from resuming operations later.

Weed out the people responsible for all of this and then we'll all sit down with the Constitution (here in the US anyway) and do our best to figure out a way to make sure we never allow this to happen again. Making sure a body like the Federal Reserve is never allowed to exist again is a fantastic first step. I wish we could bring back President Andrew Jackson. He did it before, he could help us do it again.

reply to post by detachedindividual

In what historical period you reference has there been a clear group of people to blame?

Who are the clear group of people to blame now? Mortgage lenders/borrowers, banks, auto makers, government, stock brokers, CEOs, the elite, the poor, the middle class? I have heard them all blamed and valid points made. Pick your favorite, we all have one but there are many as there always have been.

And in how many of those dates you reference have there been massive figures of your money being paid to the elite bankers while getting nothing in return?

See S&L scandal of late '80's.
www.erisk.com...

In February 1989, newly elected President George Bush announced to the American public that he would set up a programme to rescue the stricken Savings & Loan industry. The announcement made plain for the first time the depth of a financial sector crisis that had been brewing throughout the 1980s and which regulators had been unable to defuse. Estimates of a clean-up bill of around $30 to $50 billion shocked US taxpayers at the time, but turned out to be optimistic. Today we know that between 1986 and 1995, when the storm abated, the underwriting of US thrifts by the financial industry and the US taxpayer cost an extraordinary $153 billion. The extent of the disaster turned it into a major threat to the US financial system, and one of the most expensive financial sector crises the world has seen.

In the 1920's, an average of 600 banks failed annually and by 1932, 40% of all American banks have closed. By 1929, the richest 1 percent owned 40 percent of the nation's wealth and only 200 corporations controlled over half of all American industry. In 1930, the GNP falls 9.4 percent from the year before. The unemployment rate climbs from 3.2 to 8.7 percent. Nothing is done. By 1931 the GNP falls another 8.5 percent; unemployment rises to 15.9 percent. By '32 unemployment rises to 23.6 percent, stocks have lost 80 percent of their value, $2 billion in deposits have been lost, international trade is down by 66%.

We are not even close to that right now.

In what period you reference has a state declared itself bankrupt?

Which state has declared itself bankrupt now? California is on the verge, many are declaring that they may be there, but I believe the total right now is 0.

1. Injustice that this was man made.
2. Injustice that already wealthy corporations are being given public money while the public sees nothing in return.
3. Unemployment (which I do believe will pass your figures of previous data) is on a global scale. In the US this will affect every state at the same time, not one state in 1980, another in 1990.
4. Communication. Never before have people been able to send information instantaneously, report news without media intervention, and spread the truth instead of manipulated news.

1. Injustice is always man made.
2. See S&L crisis. Chrysler bail out. Corporate welfare. Nothing new here.
3. I used the largest states to make an example. Nationally we have not hit any records yet. National unemployment was higher in the 20's, 30's, 50's, 70's, and 80's then now.
4. Or spread panic, conjecture, and paranoia.

As I noted, we are in a crisis not the crisis. Things will get worse before they get better but the sky is hardly falling. We are in a global economy now, we are dependent on other countries as they are on us, and that is part of the problem. Fiscal responsibility will carry the day but it has just been a very long time since the U.S. has shown any.

reply to post by Enthralled Fan


Abbey Hoffman was so full of crap his eyes were brown. His audience was smaller than the extras in a typical Hollywood western street scene.

There are good men every day, trying to make a difference. Vastly outnumbered, they still keep their eye on the goal.

These good men just need a bit of help reducing the turds in DC at the polls.

It can be good again. But it's going to take all of us wanting to change the way the Washington insiders do business.

Originally posted by odyseusz
It looks that Poland is for now the island of peace and prosperity in Europe. But I wonder how long it would take. All neighbors have plenty of major economic problems. For a long time we had no major demonstrations, people are rather optimistic.

good luck over there my friend....

Please tell us how you do it so well, everyone else seems SO confused!

I know the Polish work HARD....are they just plain happier with what they have and "needs met" are the contentment for "unfound wants".

Seems people are reluctant to let go of their metaphorical Xboxes...

I feel sympathy for so many in NEED but less for those with more than they NEED.

Confusing times on a ball of dirt hurtling through space. What matters to me are the priceless things....family, friends, wisdom and love.

Good luck Poland, don't get dragged down by the ignorant.

BIG Peace...nerb

Originally posted by cogburn

How angry is the world?

England
France
Latvia
Iceland
Lithuania
Switzerland
Belarus
Bulgaria
Russia
Greece

You can add China and Russia.

All along the coast, angry workers besieged labour offices and government buildings after dozens of factories closed their doors, without paying wages and their owners went back to Hong Kong, Taiwan or South Korea.

In southern China, hundreds of workers blocked a highway to protest against pay cuts imposed by managers. At several factories, there were scenes of chaos as police were called to stop creditors breaking in to seize equipment in lieu of debts.

In northern China, television journalists were punished after they prepared a story on the occupation of a textile mill by 6,000 workers.

Furious local leaders in the city of Linfen said the news item would "destroy social stability" and banned it.

Source

Violent clashes in Russia as angry protesters call for Putin to resign over economy

Russia was rocked today by some of its strongest protests yet as thousands rallied across the vast country to attack the Kremlin's response to the global economic crisis.

The marches, complete with Soviet-style red flags and banners, pose a challenge to a government which has faced little threat from the fragmented opposition and politically apathetic population during the boom years fuelled by oil.

Pro-government thugs beat up some of the protesters.

Source

reply to post by Res Ipsa




I believe your right that it will be a difficult task. I do believe however The US government has been infiltrated by secret societies and they have attacked the heart of this once great country.... It's wallet. World War III may not be with foreign countries but with governments and their citizens thus making it a modern day revolution. If you think that the government does not have all of this planned out already you are sadly mistaken my friend here are just some of the executive orders and acts passed in the last 90 years preparing for this very moment.


EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990
"allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports".

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995
"allows the government to seize and control the communication media".

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997
allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998
allows the government to seize all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports, and waterways.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10999
allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000
allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001
allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002
designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003
allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004
allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005
allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051
specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310
grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049
assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921
"allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months. The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation. General Frank Salzedo, chief of FEMA's Civil Security Division stated in a 1983 conference that he saw FEMA's role as a "new frontier in the protection of individual and governmental leaders from assassination, and of civil and military installations from sabotage and/or attack, as well as prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to U.S. opinion, or a global audience in times of crisis." FEMA's powers were consolidated by President Carter to incorporate the"...

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