Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

You don't shout in the jungle.

page: 1
1
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join

posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 02:07 PM
link   
Now, I am not a skeptic or conspriracy theorist by any stretch of the word, however I have joined this site because I find it an interesting way to delve into the minds of others. Personally, I think that mathematics proves that life exists elsewhere in the cosmos, yet, I have no opinion on aliens visiting our own planet I recently was on youtube and watched an interview with Stephen Hawking. In it, he discussed theoretical physics and concluded his interview with a question on extraterrestrials. He states that he thinks that alien life probably exists, but may not be very intelligent. He has a belief that most civilizations that get to our level of technology end up destroying themselves. He also makes the remark, that in the case that there is intelligent life out there, that it is enourmously unintelligent to broadcast our own existence into the cosmos. He likens the galaxy to a jungle and states, that one should never shout when in the jungle, for fear of attracting predators. Please feel free to analyze this remark. I find that it is the most logical approach to our own expansion into the cosmos (assuming that we do not destroy ourselves first).




posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 02:13 PM
link   
reply to post by magikman
 


I do not know why Mr Hawking or Dr Carl Sagan come up with the hypothesis that a civilization would be just as hateful as ours. We simply do not know how any type of civilization would grow and learn. The problem is, they spend too much time debunking the idea that any civilization can develop the technology needed to travel to other planets.

Any idea about how aliens live or develop is pure conjecture.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 02:47 PM
link   
reply to post by magikman
 



Our TV signals have been leaking into space for so long that anything within 80 light-years with a listening device knows we're here. Perhaps that's part of the reason for the digital switch? Harder to decode. And a much better picture.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 02:55 PM
link   
reply to post by kidflash2008
 


although i concur, we can't know and anything is possible, maybe hawkins is thinking along the lines that if a species is able to evolve enough to take over the planet and invent things they'll probably fall into the same pitfulls we have and most species which devlop atomic weapons, etc will end up ending it all. Maybe they got into space, had a few planets then a war started and the blew up each others planets, maybe the LHC blew them to bits, etc

There are many ways a species could ruin their planet, heh, maybe they put too much carbon into the air and choked their planet! Maybe a shaddpw group of elites killed 80% of the population with a retrovirus but then couldn't stop bickering amoungst themselves and bio weaponed themselves as well.

maybe even a super volcano, ice age, solar gamma burst or some other natural doomsday even happened.

hehe maybe their jesus was less lazy than ours and got off his backside and started the judgement already, hehe many things can end a world.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 03:00 PM
link   
reply to post by projectvxn
 


FYI, our radio waves leaking into space scrammble into incoherensy about 2 light years from here. Basically, anything out there listening to us would just pick up static and think little of it compared to the rest of the static out there.

[edit on 31-1-2009 by magikman]



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 03:03 PM
link   
reply to post by magikman
 


Actually, that's an interesting point. And I happen to agree. When put that way it makes all the sense in the world- and beyond. The failure here though is to assume that the universe can be compared to the jungle, making even more of a case for the point. But sending out probes and broadcasting messages to the beyond divulging our presence and location is really pretty stupid. There is no telling WHAT may descend upon us because of that.

And further, doing this on the basis of deciding that it's a good thing over a bad thing is even worse. Because those are just human concepts which may well not apply at ALL to an opportunist race of beings from the beyond. I keep trying to think of fair analogy, but frankly I don't believe there is one. Because we are dealing with the pure unknown.

But I suppose it might be (just a minute touch) like casting into deep ocean with very thin line, way too big a hook, and oversized bait. A shark is going to hit it sooner or later.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 03:07 PM
link   

Originally posted by magikman
reply to post by projectvxn
 


FYI, our radio waves leaking into space scrammble into incoherensy about 2 light years from here. Basically, anything out there listening to us would just pick up static and think little of it compared to the rest of the static out there.

[edit on 31-1-2009 by magikman]


That doesn't mean that they don't get at least a morsel or two. I know about the distortion issue, and it starts before the radio signal exists the heliosphere. However, just like a distorted and corrupt data packet, it doesn't mean that ALL coherency is lost. And a sufficiently sophisticated race of being could probably fish some info from it. Even if it is just a sound or a color pallet.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 03:21 PM
link   
It's very egotistical to think that a race that has reached or exceeded our level of technological knowledge would have to have the same flaws in their personalities and society that we do. On the other hand it's naive to believe that another race couldn't be even more efficiently evil than we are, and still advanced enough to travel in space.

The only way we will ever definately know is contact. Should we refrain from trying to find other races because of the possible dangers, or do the possible benefits from such a meeting outweigh the dangers? I would like to think that humans would like to better ourselves despite the risks.



posted on Jan, 31 2009 @ 03:46 PM
link   
Like many ATSers, I think it's possibly too late to worry about catching the attention of our neighbors. There seems to be a lot of circumstantial evidence that something else is in our jungle


If that's not the case, I agree with Hawking. We don't know anything about what's out there. The irony is that if we develop the technology to detect life in the galaxy...life has probably already detected us. The discussion about remaining a covert planet rather than broadcasting our existence is probably redundant.

In principle, we should remain quiet in the jungle until we know where we are on the food chain.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 03:40 PM
link   
to late... the jungle is earth and we already shouted, let the enslavement continue..



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:22 PM
link   
You could add to that idea by saying that perhaps one reason we have been able to develop this far is our remoteness from other life out there... Perhaps life is very common, and when civilisation gets to a certain point and they have not destroyed them selves they destroy each other. Simple curiosity could spread a terrible plague to another planet - or simply they could try to conquer each other and destroy each other that way.

Either way shouting in the Jungle is bad unless your the biggest badest thing out there - and the biggest badest things in the Jungle stay quiet while they are on the hunt or else they go hungry!

Lets just hope were too far away to bother with. My brains don't taste all that good any way.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 04:22 PM
link   
Not only is it too late but science has found that the earths magnetosphere and atmosphere cause a massive burst of noise which is really obvious, we're now using it to search for other planets with an atmosphere so you know aliens who could get to us will already know we have the conditions for life.

However all it takes it a crazy planet lead by the alien Bush to say that we might be able to attack them or that we will soon develop the power to attack them, maybe they would send an unmanned highspeed rocket to destroy our sun and end any invasion plans we might have.or something like that.

I'm all for keeping quiet until we know whats going on, but then lets not retard our development out of a paranoid fear either -we don't need to stop using electricity incase they can detect the em it gives off.



posted on Feb, 3 2009 @ 07:00 PM
link   
reply to post by magikman
 


as self confident in their indoctrinated beliefs that many theorists may be.. the whole "intelligent civilizations eventually completely destroy themselves" statement is complete and utter BS.

why?
because any intelligent species will eventually corrall world leaders through monetary and ideological means generation after generation to fuse together a global network of leaders in order to cull the herds to a more manageable size.
Thats just pure fact.
if they weren't intelligent enough to come up with the idea to do that, then they're not "intelligent" in my book.

given that,
the dissemination of the idea that "intelligent civilizations eventually completely destroy themselves"... conditions a society into accepting this "inevitable" ... "unavoidable fate"...

and accepts mass destruction as just a //shrug// oh well.. we're humanity what are ya gonna doo.. oo welll yeah we did this..
no.
you didn't do it.
the leaders did.
you freaking idiots.

so just accept that "idea"... it's better for the planet.
really it is.

it's neccessary that you believe and accept this.
an accept the idea that "you did the destruction".. because.. you were the ones responsible for pressing the buttons right?.. yeaaa... jsut accept that.. you primitive beer watching football drinking public that even dares to think for a second have your answers provided to you by puppets in wheelchairs that speak their masters agenda-theory-du-jour through talking laptop computers.

yeaaah... intelligence just.. you know.. kills itself with nukes.. yeaaa.. humans are just dumb like that.. nobody at the to secures trillions of $ secretly and creates underground cities to weather through the inevitable "end of humanity"...


morons.

but stay that way.. please... stay moronic and accept the drivel through the vegetable in the wheelchair... believe the voice of the great apparition of the wiz of Oz.

you need to.

a new age won't happen if you don't shrug it off and accept it








-

[edit on 3-2-2009 by prevenge]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 07:13 AM
link   
reply to post by magikman
 


I think Stephen Hawking’s theory that aliens probably exist is quite likely to be correct, as the Cosmos is so vast that it would be strange for us to be its’ only inhabitants. Where I disagree with him is that I don’t believe we are a very advanced society, and life on various other planets could easily be at a more advanced stage than us.

A society like ours which seriously pollutes its’ own planet; goes to war with its’ fellow human population; allows a few to grab the abundant resources meant for the many; and governs its’ countries in a fraudulent manner by despots, crooks and the serially corrupt; is very backward to say the least.

I can well understand that life-forms from more advanced planets, wouldn’t want to contact us to learn anything, but perhaps only to help us become more advanced, if we requested them to do so.

However, if we speak of advanced societies in material terms, they are not necessarily highly advanced spiritually, and if we do have contact with extra terrestrial aliens, we’d better make sure that their intentions are good, before we get in worse trouble than we already are.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 04:57 AM
link   
reply to post by prevenge
 



I find your notions, prevenge, to be utterly ridiculous. First off, it was speculation that the reason for when we listen to the universe with those satellites down in South America, that we hear nothing, is that advanced civilizations may unintentionally wipe themselves out. And seriously? Stephen Hawking is a drivelling vegetable? Have some respect for the top physicist of our time. The man is a genius. (If you can't tell, I love physics). And yes, I do believe humanity is dumb enough to end itself. Not just the leaders or the people, but everyone. People are far too vengeful and full of pride. THey are too hostile. Read your post. You seemed hostile. If you seriously want people to give your views an ounce of thought, you would approach them in a thoughtful manner, like most of the other people who posted here, which by the way I appreciate for being so considerate and taking the time to thoroughly read, which it would appear you also did not do. So please, just for your own sake, approach thoughtful topics like mine with some finesse and tact, rather than your blunt approach which clearly has not set well with myself.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 05:09 AM
link   
I'm saying Hawkings is a sock puppet vegetable for a scientific elite technocracy to pass down concepts and notions that fit their current paradigm's agenda.

You don't KNOW if he's a genius or not. you only know that you think that the theories that are read about in books that have his name on them are ingenious.

-



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 05:34 AM
link   
You're right. It is just an opinion of mine. But let's not stray from the concept of this thread. I do not wish to adress any conspiracy theories here, only insightful thoughts on the topic that I have provided.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 06:21 AM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 09:31 AM
link   
I think Hawking makes an interesting point about broadcasting our existence to potential predators. But given that virtually everything considered about extraterrestrial civilizations is at best speculative, what we're talking about here is not taking a risk.

Given human nature, I don't think that's a realistic option. We're explorers. Someone's always going to push the envelope, and had we only taken actions where the outcome was foregone, no progress would ever be made.

It's all "maybe" and degrees of probability. And whether it makes sense to do it or not, what we do know is, if it can be done, it will be done. By somebody. Eventually.



posted on Feb, 5 2009 @ 09:47 AM
link   
i think hawking speaks from the perspective of a man who is eternally weak. for a physicist he isn't very clever.

if there are other advanced civilisations in the universe then earth is just not unique enough to warrant any effort in it's conquest. the only thing we have on earth that isn't abundant in the solar system is life. if life is abundant in the cosmos earth is a mediocre planet in a mediocre solar system in a boring and sparcely populated arm of a mediocre galaxy.

i've heard hawking say disease would be an issue should aliens land on the lawn, which is clearly nonsense considering the specialisation of disease among the genetically closely related organisms of earth, how far would a bacteria need to mutate to cross from alien pathology to human??

his opinions about aliens are worth as much to me as my opinions about black holes are worth to him.









 
1
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join